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Thursday, January 31

SUGAR GANDOLF

Boxer, a dog, hind end wiggling, nibbling some
street
sweet... The lady, at the end of her rope, reaches
into
doggie's mouth, exasperated.

What a sight these two make!

The lady is kind. The boxer, sincere, sure this is a
very
important donut.

I laugh, No need to go anywhere, Nothing to
change here

(You are a movie star in ruffian costume, Nibbling where
you can.)

_______________________________________________________________________

PENNDRAGON

As long as there is an "I" there will be duality. And since
"I" does not exist apart prom perception, and what is
perceived is not the actual, then duality likewise does not
exist.

PS Also a James

When you give a shilling to a beggar - do you realise that
you are giving it to yourself?

When you help a lame dog over a stile - do you realise that
you yourself are being helped?

When you kick a man when he is down - do you realise that
you are kicking yourself?

Give him another kick - if you deserve it!

Wei Wu Wei -- All the doctrines are right in their own
respective spheres--but if they encroach upon the province
of other doctrines and try to refute their views, they are
wrong. A man who holds the view of the cumulative character
of truth never says that a particular view is right or that
a particular view is wrong.

Jainism. Sanmatitarka of Siddhasena 1.28

JAMES TRAVERSE

Blessings Penn,

I feel that the ground of being includes duality and it is
ONE.

I know that it sounds paradoxical - yet it is so.

There are two AND they are not TWO - it is the way the One
'appears' - it can be explained to certain extent by saying
that the *appearance* of separation as 'I' and 'other' is
the only way that the One can 'see' Itself. - and so
everything arises and falls together.

I am One that appears as two.

I am reality-unreality.

I am 'I am'.

I am OneDuality-NonDuality.

As you say, if one dwells on the particular, then either
directly or indirectly, this 'makes' the other wrong. And
if one holds the cumulative character of truth one never
says that a particular view is right or that a particular
view is wrong.

So, I am saying that I am 'both' and the cumulative view is
that 'both' are One - there is *no separation*.

The other thing that I have said is that I can also 'speak'
about this by honouring Silence - in other words, 'I am
neither'.

Thus I say, 'Everything arises together' - the arising is
dulaistic in appearance and yet the Truth is that it is
One. And, I say, 'Everything falls together' - when there
is no arising - there is nothing.

I am Nothing-Everything. Nothing and Everything are
*different forms of the SAME thing*.

To say that I am NonDual is to dwell on the particular.

To say that I am OneDual is to dwell on the particular.

To express the whole I say, 'I am OneDuality-NonDuality' or
I am 'Everything-Nothing'

OR

Silence

PENN

I understand where you're commimg from here and see it as
staying withing the maya (illusion) associated with
existence. To exist implies an "I" which will of course
carry duality with it. To trascend existence into a state
of non-existence (a mystical realm that transcends reality
as people tend to see) also transcends any need of duality.

MP Penn

PS A few quotes re this that might interest

Abide not with dualism, Carefully avoid pursuing it; As
soon as you have right and wrong, Confusion ensues, and
Mind' is lost.

Zen Buddhism

The seeing of Truth cannot be dualistic (a 'thing' seen).
It cannot be seen by a see-er, or via a see-er. There can
only be a seeing which itself is Truth.

Wei Wu Wei

THIS which is seeking is THAT which is sought, and THAT
which is sought is THIS which is seeking.

Wei Wu Wei

There being really no duality, pluralism is untrue. Until
duality is transcended and at-one-ment realised,
Enlightenment cannot be attained. The whole Sangsâna, as an
inseperable unity, are one's mind.

The Tibetan Book of Great Liberation

If you would swim on the bosom of the ocean of Truth, you
must reduce yourself to a zero.

Mahatma Gandi

Behold the One in all things. It is the second that leads
you astray.

Kabir

With a single stroke we are freed from bondage; nothing
clings to us and we hold to nothing. All is empty, clear,
illuminating itself with no exertion of the minds power.
Here thought, feeling, learning and imagination are
worthless. In this Suchness there is no "I"; nor is there
anything "other than I."

Sengstan

If anyone wishes to be created afresh, then he must do
everything in his power to enter the condition of
nothingness, and then God will make out of him a new
creation, and he will become as a spring which does not dry
up and as a stream which does not cease to flow.

Martin Buber

Now you are going to ask me how to destroy this stark
awareness of your self. You might be thinking that if you
destroy this sense of your self you will destroy
everythingelse too and you will be right. But I will answer
this fear by telling you that without a very special grace
from God and without a particular aptitude on your part,
you will never beable to get rid of this naked sense of
self. For your part, this aptitude consists of a robust and
profound sorrow of spirit.....Everybody has a special
reason for grief, but the person who has a deep experience
of himself existing apart from God feels the most acute
sorrow. Once we have aquired this sorrow it not only
purifies our souls, but it takes away all the pain merited
by sin and thus makes the soul capable of receivingthat joy
which takes from a man all sense of his own being. If this
sorrow is genuine, it is full of holy longing. Otherwise
nobody could bear it.

from The Cloud of Unknowing

When you make the two as One, and the inside like the
outside, you will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Gnostic Gospel of Thomas

If you want to be immortal and exalted, first get rid of
your Self, then summon a winged horse out of nowhere, to
carry you away. Clothe yourself with the garments of
nothingness, and your head with a robe of non-existence.
Put your foot in the stirrup of renunciation, and looking
straight ahead, ride the steed of non-being to the place of
emptiness. You'll get lost over and over again, but travel
with equanimity, until at last you reach the world where
you are completely lost altogether. Attar


Non-existence within existence is my rule. Getting lost in
getting lost is my religion.

Ayn Hamadani

The Sangsâra is no more than one's own thought. With effort
one should therefore cleanse the thought. What one
thinketh, that doth one become. This is the eternal
mystery.

Maitri Upanishad vi. 34

Then neither Being nor Not-being was, Nor atmosphere, nor
firmament, nor what is beyond. What did it encompass?
Where? In whose protection? What was water, the deep,
unfathomable?....

Who knows truly? Who can here declare it? Whence it was
born, whence is this emanation. By the emanation of this
the gods Only later [came to be]. Who then knows whence it
has arisen?

Whence this emanation hath arisen, Whether [God] disposed
it, or whether he did not, --- Only he who is its overseer
in the highest heavens knows. [He only knows,] or perhaps
he does not know!

Rig Veda

He who has no thought of "I" and "mine" whatever towards
his mind and body, he who grieves not for that which he has
not, he is, indeed, called a bhikkhu.

Buddhism. Dhammapada 367

There is no becoming. ALL IS.

Wei Wu Wei

We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather
are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.

Wei Wu Wei

Reality alone exists - and that we are. All the rest is
only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind
without the 'our'. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so
difficult to assimilate and to live?

Wei Wu Wei

Truth is that which lies in a dimension beyond the reach of
thought.

Whole-mind has no 'thoughts', thoughts are split-mind.

Wei Wu Wei

It is necessary to understand that I Am, In order that I
may know that I Am Not, So that, at last, I may realise
that, I Am Not, therefore I Am.

Wei Wu Wei

JAMES TRAVERSE

Hello again Penn,

here is my definition of illusion...

illusion: I am not here

We are saying the same thing in different ways. Thanks for
all the quotes.

illusion: I am not here
illusion: I am here

These are two different forms of the *same* thing. They
'appear' to be opposite and dualistic. The reality is that
they are One. By itself each is incomplete. United, they
represent the 'whole' which is greater than the sum of the
individual parts.

PENN

I looked around and you're not here ;)

-- The enlightenment consists of a mysterious light which
the shaman suddenly feels in his body, inside his head,
within the brain, an inexplicable searchlight, a luminous
fire... for he can now, even with closed eyes, see through
darkness and perceive things and coming events which are
hidden from others: thus they look into the future and into
the secrets of others.

The candidate obtains this mystical light after long hours
of waiting, sitting on a bench in his hut and invoking the
spirits. When he experiences it for the first time, it is
as if the house in which he is suddenly rises, he sees far
ahead of him, through mountains, exactly as if the earth
were one great plain, and his eyes could reach to the end
of the earth. Nothing is hidden from him any longer; not
only can he see things far, far away, but he can also
discover souls, stolen souls, which are either kept
concealed in far, strange lands or have been taken up or
down to the Land of the Dead.

Native American Religions Iglulik Eskimo Shaman Initiation

____________________________________________________________________

JAN BARENDRECHT

"Yes, everything that could be said has been said, but we
have to say it again because no one was listening."

-- Anatole France

That was remarked before the media were set up to compete
for attention. The change from potential listener to
mass-media consumer is a guarantee for listening to become
extinct, despite the media's loudness - which could be said
to be instrumental too for such development as the
organism's way of self-protection.

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