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Saturday, 10-Mar-01

This should open in notepad.
Thoughts on Self-Realization

Andrew:
Deep realization of Self is really not a big deal.
It happens to lots of people.
The blessing lies in living that realization completely.
This is something you can't do.
A point comes when you see that there's no other way to live.
So you try to live that way, to embody that inner realization
as perfectly as you can. You fail but you try.
And the failure also is really not a big deal.


Sarlo:
I worry that despite all my efforts to fail i might succeed,
or at least fail to fail.
Please help me.

Andrew:
Don't worry, failure is guaranteed.
Hope this helps.

Tim:
Where does failure come in where effort is not involved?
I fail to see it ...

Andrew:
If failure is impossible without effort,
then effort makes the impossible possible.a.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Final Realization

Cyber Dervish (>) /Gene Poole:

> "Yogananda said that without continued mastery of the
> remaining aspects of the ego, the soul loses its degree of
> realization, much as an athlete loses his/her skill
> without continued practice.

Yes. If you can recognize what is 'other', you will discover
yourself. So-called 'ego' becomes a presence whose nature is
recognized and accounted for. Maintaining awareness
of this phenomenon of 'ego' is to live in a powerful paradox.
Powerful paradoxes are anathema to 'seeker', however,
so it is probable that lacking clear resolution, seeking will
continue.Lacking clear conclusions, seeking continues.
Seeker knows not, that conclusions are not to be had, that
'verifications' leading to 'truth' are at best ephemeral. Seeker
would be better served by seeking honesty, rather than truth.Honesty.

> For the soul that has had
> glimpses of its oneness with God, he prescribed deeper
> meditation, unflinching self-discipline and mastery of
> one's thoughts and feelings. Through repeated contact of
> the soul with God through spiritual practice, he said, the
> soul could stay anchored in what he termed "Final
> Realization," whether in meditation or in activity.">> _


`````'Final realization' could be
termed 'relationship', to be had for as long as such is
apparent, to be endured, abided.Seeker avoids
elationship, out of embarrassment. Avoidance of
embarrassment is avoidance of relationship; it is the heat
of embarrassment, which consumes common conditioning.
Something as trivial and mundane as embarrassment,
could be the guide to relationship.Abiding in embarrassment,
consumes both pride and shame. The lightening which occurs
due to this abiding, allows eventually, full breaths of neutral
freedom.Free of drama... free of compulsion, guilt, shame,
and false modesty. Free to speak and to have relationship,
and to be scourged by embarrassment.

==Gene Poole==

Jodi/Tim:
"Degrees" of realization do not constitute Self realization.
>
> Realization is a final rendering of the individual as
> nonexistent. How can something that has been shown to
> be nonexistent come back into existence?

But, there is no conflict between "existence" and
"nonexistence"... both coexist perfectly peacefully .

"We think that there is something hiding our reality and
that it must be destroyed before the reality is gained. It is
ridiculous. A day will dawn when you will yourself laugh at
your past efforts. *That which will be* on the day you
laugh is also here and now."
-- Sri Ramana Maharshi

Jodi:
To paraphrase: "We think that we are someone who needs to be
realized, and that one day it will happen. When you come to
the blessing that allows you to know yourself as the Self, you
will laugh yourself silly at how you *really* knew this all
along, and had only *thought* that you didn't."
-----------------------------------------------
Logic & Feeling do help

Cyber Dervish
Ultimate Prayer? [beta version]
[under construction, beta version -
your contribution will be appreciated]

Oh Lord! Once I used to get on your nerve
frequently asking, praying, begging for this or that.
Then I matured a bit and realized how selfish I was
So I started praying for the good of others also
Then I matured more, You opened my eyes further>
So I said to you, "God I do not know what is good for me,
You do.
Please grant me what you think is good for me.
Then I meditated deeper and realized my mistake
I was still thinking of worldly things
So I asked for what the Sufis ask for
Just being near to You, just being one with You
I reflected further, and realized that still it was about ME
What about how I can serve You, how I can make Your day
So I humbly pray God do what You want with me
Your pleasure is mine, Your wish is my command
Use me as Your door mat or burn me in Your fire place
to warm Yourself.
Station me as far as possible from You if that will
serve You better
Send me to hell if so You desire,
for even there I will be happy knowing that is what
You wanted.
Lord! I am nothing. I want nothing. Do whatever You
want with me.
>>-seeker>>

How effective is this prayer? I tried it yesterday
in bed [sleep time]. And surprise, surprise I straight
away entered that '*****' meditative state.
The feeling of excitement and expectancy. As if something
wonderful is about to happen. It is a feeling of great
calmness yet there is a wonderful tightness in the chest.
[and this too having last meditated 30 years ago!]
[Of course for it to work you have to mean every word of it]
>>~** nobody **

>Is it you or your ego writing?
>It is difficult to be humble. Very difficult!

Doc Hobbes:

0=1

'Prayer' is a cry
for mercy
on deaf ears.
I have no more forgiveness
for those that continue
from here.

Thus, it is So!

'Meditation' is time
for God

on silent words
in whispers.

Does one require mercy
who is silent?
Of what does its
silence speak?
If it is not of mercy
then grace is our only
benefactor!

Those that believe
shall be left behind
in the light of those
that wait.

"For, as they stand still
in body, mind, and spirit
cold and hardened
towards their fellow man
and wrongfully filling
their cups of grace
not offered
as even in the Lord
he waits
for all to be seated
first."
Eagleraven

"Please, now that you have eaten
Excuse your self from
my table and return not."
Jesus

A still pool
is where water
and air meet
in agreement.
Auspicious!

'Who' hears the difference
a 'single day' can make!

"Of what day is this?"
cries pounding heart
and screaming lungs
"that, in my own foolishness,
I feared it's coming!"

Am I not freed of death?
Yes.
But now, you are bound
by your every word
as am I.
Jesus Christ.
Paid in full.

Next 0.

--TeCha

Gloria:
Beautiful prayer, CD. "Thy will be done" is a surrender
which is not so much fatalistic as trustful. Just as your
heart was moved by merely witnessing the nun's devotion
in that movie you mentioned, what does this tell you about
yourself here? The advice to "know thyself" is difficult to
surpass. So listen to your heart. You seem a natural for
a path of devotion.

Re: ego and being nothing.
The trouble is that when the game takes place entirely on
the mind/ego level, there is a swelling and at the same time
shattering of the the ego, creating one by the effort of
surpassing one's usual self-measure and destroying one
by making one lose one's self-confidence. Whereas when
you turn to and allow "Divine Love" to operate within one, t
his process annihilates one's reliance on the ego by giving
one confidence in the unlimited dimensions of being.
(Don't worry, your ego will still end up just as annihilated.)


"Thou wouldst not be searching for me if thou hadst
not already found me."
Pascal
-------------------------------------------
Working definition of a "Jnani"

Tim...Omkara

Just thought I would try to post a potential working definition
of a "Jnani." Forgive the use of the word "man" here, this is for
convenience purposes only.

Most people seem to go from simple "I am," to
"I am a man," to "I am a good man," to "I am a
good man who owns things," and so forth.

A Jnani, seems to go in the other direction... from
"I am a good man who owns things," to "I am a good man,"
to "I am a man," to "I am,"
to ... (nothing can be defined beyond this point in words).

But it could be said that just as most people "become"
increasingly ever-complex, a Jnani will "become" increasingly
ever more simple, receding further until there is nothing.
What I'm describing is not really so, but works on a
conceptual level.

A common mistake is to think of a Jnani as "superior,"
when in fact a Jnani is "much less than nothing."

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