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DAN & JIVANO

DAN:
Dear Jivano,

For me to make sense of the
term "spiritual ego",
I would picture a knot of
awareness that is busy
avoiding looking at itself
by pursuing "spiritual concerns"
and the good of all.

It pretends to force silence on itself,
but never really comes to a stop,
never knows unforced quiet,
the simple observing of
its own tensions as they arise
"here".

As I've observed such knotted awareness
arising "here", I've noticed its agenda
seems to be to maintain a false
sense of continuity, believing its
own "spiritual opinions" to be
a center for awareness in the universe.

As I've observed "the universe as is 'here'", this
knotted awareness or "spiritual ego"
releases itself,
as clarity is that there is no
center of the universe.

As this moment of clarity, no dichotomy
is there as to "spiritual" or "nonspiritual"
being.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SARAH & BENINA

Dear all,
reading all the mails about World War II and swearing I got such a
longing to just sit silently, smell the autumn-fresh air mixed with
cowdung, touch some horses, since I am so blessed to sit here amongst
the Gods of Nature during the weekend.

I was thinking what is it deep down in the human psyche that drives
us to torture each other and be sadistic assholes as the German Nazis
demonstrated or other movements down through the history since ever.

Why do animals not do that? Are they more developed?

Besides resistance to feel that part of being human what came up is
that there could be a connection with sex. – As I see it sex and death
are deeply connected and polar opposites. So, is it possible that
there is a deep hidden (or not so hidden) sexual fascination about
killing and torturing, mixed with lust for power?

And is it so that we as human beings are doomed to experience all
of the polar opposite creations (like f.e. tyrant or victim) just for
the sake of having had the experience of duality to the max?

We as God wanted and created this duality. Now we have it.
Full-stop.
So just lean back and enjoy the show? Only for my understanding the
show is not always funny, it is also fucking deep and painful.

So the only thing I can do is to feel my helplessness and hope I
can surrender.

Love Sarah

BENINA:
Dear Sarah,
your words are moving, moving and I actually don`t know where it is
leading. It feels like a dog smelling something making his way to
follow....

You wrote: "what is it deep down in the human psyche that drives us to
torture each other and be sadistic assholes as the German Nazis
demonstrated or other movements down through the history since ever."

What I found in my own psyche is a fascination which intensity.This
fascinatoin is related to sex, power and death. When there is
facination- conscious or unconscious - the manifestation, the
creation happenes.

In many fairytales comes the point, when the hero(ine)gets hurt, when
she gets the "ax blow".I find the symbolic language of this old tales
very useful and adequate when speaking about processes within the
psyche.

So the facination with intencity brought the "ax blow" into my live.
Yes, as god I have desired to feel the intensity of it.The human
psyche was terrorized by it, feeling a victim,covering it up with
fear,guilt and shame. Over a process of intense work within the
psyche the covert wounds are unfolding, beeing integrated, felt.
In this process it becomes so clear that these wounds caused by the
"ax blow" are the doorway to a deeper understaning.

.....it is deep it is painful and as the understanding grows that
"the world is in me" I feel more and more helpless and it is this
helplessness that brings me to my knees, that becomes the blessing
the beauty

Lot`s of love
Benina

~~~~~~~~

DAVID HODGES:
This is a very interesting point, and I thought it deserved to be
highlighted more. It reminds me of the Kafka quote, "A book is an axe, to
break the frozen sea within".

Kafka was talking about literature, not only is a book the axe, but many
other things. In the 4th Way, they talk about "Shocks". I know there are
many kinds and intensities of shocks that can break the frozen sea, from a
butterfly landing on one's nose, to an awful personal tragedy.

In the hero myth, as outlined by Joseph Campbell in "Hero with a Thousand
Faces", there is often that "ax blow" when the hero (or heroine) falls down
as if dead, only to rise about again. This is often at the most intense
point of the story, the bottom of the story, as it were, the crucible (but
not necessarily the climax). There is a point in Star Wars where Luke
Starwalker is sucked under the water in that giant trash masher, everyone
thinks he is dead, then he miraculously re-appears. In The Matrix, Neo
almost dies from the shock of something that happens out in the Matrix, but
is brought back by Trinity's kiss.

I know what you mean about liking intensity too.
That is me.
I am a heat-seeking device.

David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GENE, Oh YEAH!?

NDS

Marcia, your knowing

Good morning, Marcia... you wrote to the 'guys':

From: Marcia Paul
Subject: Re: Sandeep, excellent work

I am sorry you guys, I love you all, but I have to say some of you
think you are so smart, like the rest of us can't see this. It is
really funny. I think this is really a guy kind of thing. Women
already know this. :-)

Marcia

GENE:
Funny! Funny? I'll show you 'funny'!

Marcia! Hey, now where do you 'get off', assuming that just because
somebody says something, that that somebody who said that, by saying
that, is saying also, that who is hearing, did not already know what
was being said? Huh? Huh?

And not only that, but is it not just a tad 'over the line' to also
assume that someone 'thinks they are so smart'? Please fax me a copy
of your graduation certificate from the "Institute of Mind Reading",
if you 'think' you know what others think! I would rethink that
thinking, thinks I!

Now let me tell you something, Marcia. You 'girls' can just stand
back, and be content just watching, as us 'guys' gather on the
commons, displaying our god-like physiques, togas draped to maximum
advantage, wreaths of laurel circling our high brows, as we
expostulate the creamiest profundities, to be elevated to the virtual
Olympus of Intellectual Valhallas, as we ride o'er the rainbow bridge
of Aesir, drawn by the magnificent white steeds of achievement, and
yes, the very gods themselves bow and make way, as our legions cross
that fabled threshold, to take our rightful places as the true
overseers and managers of the affairs (and thoughts) of one and all!

And of course, this is possible only because of us 'guys' incredible,
incomparable 'humility', without which we could be mistaken for mere
strutting, pompous asses. I am proud of my humility! You, Marcia,
could take a lesson; even a glance at our humility, should be a
humbling experience!

And I suppose, Marcia, that your 'definition of enlightenment' as it
applies to 'guys', would be that a man deserves that acclamation,
only if he remembers to put the toilet-seat back down? Does not this
assumption of yours, if it is as I suppose, fly in the face of the
centuries of 'guy' brilliance, such as being able to change the oil
in your iron chariot? To fix that drippy faucet? Not to mention, such
other vaunted accomplishments as WD-40, steel-wool, and rubber bands?
And what about zippers?

So when you see us 'guys', sitting around and scratching each-others
backs, as is revealed below, please allow that special flash of
brilliant light to permeate your cranium, thus to dispel any chronic
complaints you may entertain, as may pertain to our ('guys')
idiosyncrasies, foibles, shortcomings, or so-called 'flaws'. After
all, just how else would a 'diamond in the rough' (a favorite 'gal'
phrase) ever become that shining jewel, so craved by the esteemed
female of our species?

So there!

Your Humble Servant,

==Gene Poole==

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JUTTA, DAN:

Dear Jutta,
You addressed this (below)
to Sandeep, but
I feel I want to
answer, too. You raise
some useful questions and express
yourself directly
and elegantly.

For me, it is this:
There is no next moment.
There is no next step.
There is no world to return
to.

This "dream world" is itself
"enlightenment" or "Reality"
exactly "this way", as is.

Yes, here is "this" --
And with/as "this" forming
these forms, the "human" form
arises. Yet its forming is
its unforming. This isn't
an intellectual concept alone,
is the very *experiencing* life/death.

If I am not ignore-ant, I cease
any attempt to escape life/death as is.

It is a miracle, this
"now-moment" in which
forming and unforming
are one.

This human being arises
in agony of birth-death.
The anquish of centuries
of ignorance arise
in the birth-death of
this human being.
The difficulties of this
particular life experience
also are there/here.

Yet, in day to day life,
each moment is pure, whole.
Moments in which I touch a friend,
hold someone close to me,
speak to someone of concerns
that affect them directly.

The experience of fear arises,
of loss, of love, of happiness.

The human being, Dan, feels
feelings, knows desire,
wants openness of love.
There can be hurt for Dan,
there can be joy when
things go "right",
when openness is --
sorrow when things
go "wrong", when
openness doesn't
seem to be. There
can be frustration
when "needs" don't
seem to be met, or
when "misunderstanding"
feels abundant.
Not all is "resolved"
for Dan, how could
that be if Dan
arises as human being?

And, that there is no
"right" or "wrong" -
for sure - so even
for Dan, feeling when
things are "right" --
that feeling itself isn't
right or wrong.
And so, Dan comes to
"opening" regardless
of whether there
appears to be opening
or not around Dan, whether frustration
or fulfillment. Opening
can be "to" and "as" frustration
as well as fulfillment.

I am with you Jutta.

In this unfulfilled life
is fulfillment found,
the daily
treadmill of desire, loss,
unhappiness, joy --
the burst of light is
"within" "from" and
*as* "this".

I am with you.

There is no beginning or end to it,
this undisturbed peace.

It is right here, where the
beginning is the end,
that freedom is.

There is nothing to get to,
no next step.

Going through the rounds,
choicelessly,
inevitably,
through the life in
which living is dying,
this itself is freedom.

As I have no next step,
there is nothing to
be passed on, nothing
to continue.

As I am "here", you are
"here", there is no
one not "here", and
only No-one "here".

This isn't an idea to
be held in mind.
It is the stopping of
the mind, right now,
right in the midst
of this day to day
human life.

Love,
Dan


JUTTA::
...I didn`t
like to be in a round-about of the mind all the time. I felt sick of
it. Like hyper intelligent, but useless words.

Where are you at as a person with feelings, thoughts and emotions?

Where are the areas in your life where there is hiding, fearing,
denying and resisting?

I would love to meet you in your very humaness. Just now I am tired
of enlightened talk now!!!!

What are the areas in your "dream" where you are stuck, unhappy,
unfulfilled???? What does hurt, Sandeep, where are his limits as a
human being?

Please, show me your human sides now! For me this is the next step.
The entering the world of dream again after realizing that it is a
dream and sharing the humaness........


DAN:
Dear Jutta,

What I hear you describing
is despair, which is simply
the result of clinging
to the fictional
entity taken
as reality.

Who says everyone is to
be made happy by a book
or by a technique?

Who says any book can give
truth??

The truth is very sobering
although it is very light.

It is not for everyone, far
from it.

It is only for when readiness
is, that the nonentity-hood
of being as is, is here.

No one likes "this".
No one wants "this".

People run around trying
to make each other happy,
writing inspirational
books, forming
helpful programs.

Let them console themselves,
let them find ways
to make "happiness".

The state of "happiness" will
pass. Who will see that
happiness will always pass,
that programs and books
can only provide
passing reassurance?

The reality of life is
far to simple for books
and programs.

Its simplicity is why
there is so much running
around and avoiding.

I'm not saying anything new, I know.

I'm typing just because I'm typing.
If you have read this far, my wish is
for love and awareness to you
and all ;-)

Love,
Dan


Adi Dan! Adi Dan! We bow to the wisdom of Adi Dan. Like the gentle wind, It
disperses the clouds and One Sees the Sun Shining Bright and Pure and
Radiant As Ever.

Love to all
Harsha

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ANNEGRET & SANDEEP:

ANNEGRET:
Hiya Sandeep,

Annegret (who is not) really appreciates the amount of effort and
energy Sandeep (who is not as well, though suffering from hangover,
"my" feelings for you!) has taken upon to prove that Annegret (who is
not) could be unloaded from some unpleasant feelings, as eg feeling
shame of being born German. Thank "you"!

In answering your question about your own contradictions: Hasn't it
yet appeared to you that there is no use in this non-volitional world
to try and save others from any feeling IT wants to feel through
them?

And if all is THIS, that there is no point in distinguishing between
"I" and "NOT I"? Strange, you seem to be so clever, but still want
to have choice or convince others of having choice? How come? This is
the contradiction this "you" seems to suffer from. What about
some "choiceless awareness? Good term to prattle about, but to
practice, really, in daily life, not just in front of keyboard and
screen? Having someone stepping on your toe?

That's where it gets interesting for Annegret. How come "we" have
preferences and thus get trapped in the "i"? And don't
mis-take this as a real question, Sandeep, and invest too much in
this
stubborn German mind of mine that likes its identifications - knowing
very well it doesn't have to be THAT necessarily!

Re hangovers: try some water while drinking, in between, not only
afterwards!

Choicefull greetings
Annegret

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

dear Jivano,

I read the book from Satyam Nadeen. And the message "You are not the
doer here!" is not new but it also doesn´t help much...

I saw freinds of mine becoming very depressive after having read
Satyam Nadeens book. They put themself in a hopeless state
afterwards. They didn´t dare to to anything anymore, they
didn´t feel
a sense in being alive any more. Ok. that was their reaction. But I
could see somehow how this "you are not the doer here" puts the human
mind into a bad shape, into hopelessnes, into a kind of dead waiting,
unalive, in a victim state. The question arose in them even: "wha to
live, to engage oneself into the daily live?"

No, this is not the kind of message I choose. I love more messages
like: be total, do it now, celebrate, enjoy being human and also
rearranging the desk chair on the titanic can be enjoyed fully.

That`s why I love Harry Palmer very much. He is not miserly, he gives
enlightened toys to humanity, he invites to create to allow awareness
to create in harmony. To me life is mucch more fun, when there is the
appreciation of the fact that humans are able to choose.

Yes, knowing that this is just a dream. But why experience a
nightmare when there are possibilities to create it into a love-
dream????


love to you, Jivano

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SERIOUSLY, SANDEEP, SARLO, NEO



NEO:
Sarlo

For all that you have said of not being too serious your messages seem so
serious, but that may just be me.

I am sure you understood my joke but for those that missed it let me
explain. Also, it may have come from Jack Kornfield's "A Path with Heart".
In the joke the house is the body. It is in flames because it is dying as
are we all. With death rushing to us we should devote all possible attention
on God, enlightenment, ... . The joke is someone suggesting spending their
life on something trivial by comparison (as most do).

SANDEEP:
And attention on that "God", "enlightenment" which can only be a conceptual
expression of your innate conditioning, devoting all possible attention to
that "God" would that not be a triviality?<s>

NEO:
this assumes that what you have stated as your belief is true. Do
you not believe in enlightenment or God?

SANDEEP:
No, I do not believe in beliefs.(Osho copied that from me.LOL)

........

Physically I take a lump of clay, or mud, or soil or whatever and make a
beautiful statue, I then further "lend" it, bestow on it divinity and then I
worship that "divinity" to save my ass.


NEO:
is this what you do? Do you not experience the divine directly?

SANDEEP:
Good Lord, Neo.

Did you not get the rhetoricality (is there a word like that?) of that
statement?

.......

And what I do metaphysically, in what way is that different to this
absurdity?

How can you pay attention to that, which conceives your very sentience which
in turn gives you the luxury of attention?


NEO:
I do not understand.

SANDEEP:
All your concepts, beliefs about God, Enlightnement are products of your
mentation, ie they are nothing but your mental constructs, flowing from your
innate conditioning and thus to then subsequently seek what your own
mentation produced in the first place, is physically taking a lump of shit,
bestowing on it your brand of divinity, and worshipping it to save your
conceptual ass.

That is why I succinctly remarked round and round the self created mulberry
bush.


NEO:
I still do not understand.


SANDEEP:
In your sleep dream, one of the characters that you produced in that dream,
can it look back and say hey that's you who dreamed me up?


How can the eye see itself?


NEO:
In the joke about God swearing, etc., it was not the seriousness, it was the
untruth about it that fell flat. It was like someone was using the joke to
justify their swearing because God does and that God is as feeble as us
because God could not hit someone with a lightening bolt, and a
justification for anger, attack and killing because God would kill someone
for using profanity.

SANDEEP:
Come on Neo.
Give a good laugh, if you care to.
If that joke did not hit you laugh button, hit the del key.

And seriousness is a disease, the mother of all of diseases.

NEO:
It is rare that I hear a good joke as most seem to just put down other
groups of people of have some lame sexual aspect.

SANDEEP:
A joke is always at the expense of somebody.
And when you can laugh at yourself, hey maaan, you are then deep.


I am snipping all stuff on Osho and getting on to ACIM which brings a gleam
in my cyber eyes.
Just for you information, I was "politely asked to move on" out of the ACIM
List recently.

LOL.

<SNIP>

ACIM:

Now allow me a quote. I am a big fan of "A Course in Miracles". This is a
quote from the Workbook section:
________________________________________
LESSON 130.

It is impossible to see two worlds.
W-130.1. Perception is consistent. 2 What you see reflects your thinking.

And your thinking but reflects your choice of what you want to see. 4 Your
values are determiners of this, for what you value you must want to see,
believing what you see is really there. 5 No one can see a world his mind
has not accorded value. 6 And no one can fail to look upon what he
believes he wants.

SANDEEP:
Going round and round the mulberry bush, the mulberry bush having been
created by you, yourself.


ACIM:
W-130.4. Fear has made everything you think you see.
2 All separation, all distinctions, and the multitude of
differences you believe make up the world.
3 They are not there.

SANDEEP:
On what basis is this conclusion of "not there"?
I am not disagreeing, all I am enquiring is what is the understanding that
produces this bromide?


ACIM
4 Love's enemy has made them up.
5 Yet love can have no enemy, and so they have no cause, no
being and no consequence.
6 They can be valued, but remain unreal.
7 They can be sought, but they can not be found.
8 Today we will not seek for them, nor waste this day in
seeking what can not be found.

SANDEEP:
Who is that 'we" which must seek?

ACIM:
W-130.5. It is impossible to see two worlds which have no overlap of any
kind.
2 Seek for the one; the other disappears.


SANDEEP:
With a seeker remaining, the seeker's world remains (whatever that be).
The cognizer cannot exist with out the cognized and vice versa.


3 But one remains.
4 They are the range of choice beyond which your decision cannot go.
5 The real and the unreal are all there are to choose between, and
nothing more than these.

SANDEEP:
How do you define what is real and what is unreal?
Is the "definer" of these definitions, real or unreal?

<SNIP>

ACIM:
W-130.8. Begin your searching for the other world by asking for a strength
beyond your own, and recognizing what it is you seek.

SANDEEP:
Ahaaa.
So how do we recognize what we seek?
You can only re-cognize what you have apriori cognized.
And what you have cognized, what will seek about it?


2 You do not want illusions.

SANDEEP:
Yahoo!!!
Who is that 'you" that does not want illusions?
Is that "not wanter" any less of an illusion?

3 And you come to these five minutes emptying your hands of all
the petty treasures of this world.
4 You wait for God to help you, as you say:

5 It is impossible to see two worlds. 6 Let me accept the strength God
offers me and see no value in this world, that I may find my freedom and
deliverance.


SANDEEP:
This very illusory phenomenal world with all it's values and "dis-values" is
the very Nirvan, the very Noumenon, the very Consciousness.

Ad-nauseam, I repeat
A wave is an illusion but when you pick it up in your hand, all you get in
your palm is water.

To try and see that an illusion has no value for me and hence to be
rejected, is as much being stuck with that illusion as seeing that it holds
a lot of value for me and thus to be pursued.

Nothing to be shunned, nothing to be craved, so that you could make love
next to that altar and meditate in a whorehouse with equal equanimity.


"that I may find my freedom and deliverance".

Seek freedom, and you presuppose you are bound in the first place.
Till the seeking continues in whichever form, shape or path, the
pre-supposition remains like your shadow.

ACIM:
W-130.9. God will be there.
2 For you have called upon the great unfailing power which will
take this giant step with you in gratitude.
3 Nor will you fail to see His thanks expressed in tangible perception
and in truth.
4 You will not doubt what you will look upon, for though it is perception,
it is not the kind of seeing that your eyes alone have ever seen before.
5 And you will know God's strength upheld you as you made this choice.

SANDEEP:
Pass.

ACIM:
W-130.10. Dismiss temptation easily today whenever it arises, merely by
remembering the limits of your choice.
2 The unreal or the real, the false or true is what you see and only
what you see.
3 Perception is consistent with your choice, and hell or Heaven comes
to you as one.

W-130.11. Accept a little part of hell as real, and you have damned your
eyes and cursed your sight, and what you will behold is hell indeed.
2 Yet the release of Heaven still remains within your range of choice,
to take the place of everything that hell would show to you.
3 All you need say to any part of hell, whatever form it takes, is simply
this:
4 It is impossible to see two worlds.
5 I seek my freedom and deliverance,
and this is not a part of what I want.


SANDEEP:
Neo, do you really see divisiveness in Life?
And thus the question of the volition of choice.

Life has to be divisive for choice to exists and hence volition of choice to
exists.

If all is I, what is not-I, from which I can choose?

Some conceptual musings...


Prost

Sandeep

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