Click here to go to the next issue.

NEO:

WHITE WOLF:
What is scary is after you have made your lump and invested with
divinty you find yourself talking to it and then it starts telling
you how to live your life!


ROSE:
It is not scary - it is just your creation - and after it tells you
how to live your life and you are not happy with your life you ask it
how to become free of this suffering and it tells you to "get rid of
the mind" or even that there is no "I" in the first place.....



POU:
Dear Neo

Of course, she has to laugh, for she has recognised she is the self. The
Jews were the first one to get the message that "I Am" and the message they
received was not to place anything before me. Not to place any God' before
me. Anything after me is secondary to me in the sense that it arose out of
me. But I am the creator of all. First of all, if I create something and
then forget I am it's creator and I fear my creation and I start to give my
creations powers and pray to my creation for liberation, I am commonly known
as a seeker seeking my own source. I am the wave forgetting I am the ocean.

Now Neo, you state you're awake and if you don't then who are you trying to
fool? You are the source of your creation and if you're not happy with your
creation, then it's a sad day. Do you understand Neo? It's all okay.
You're awake, you know the source from that which you arose and you are that
source and you are that arising and you are that which arose. Therefore you
arose. Not on the third day, but in the ever-present endless this-ness. Fo
you realise Neo, there is no now. For there to be a now, there has to be a
future and apast. And you realise Neo, in the awake state that take one of
this holy trinity out,past, now, future, and the whole ball game is over.

Remember this, you're dealing
now with woman. The fullness of woman and woman is receptive, she is
feminine, she is divine, she is wisdom, she's all that, that which you long
for. REceptivity, aliveness, wonder, innocence, an ever non-ceasing divine
presence of eternal divinity, for she is what "I Am".

Neo, you divine creation of wonder, living exquisite, eternal,
never-ceasing eternal divine eloquence. Woman is the vessel. She is the
holy grail that we need to pour ourselves into. Self pouring itself into
self. For no other reason, escept it is the law. And you know what the law
is Neo. The law is you shall place no Gods before me and worship false
idols. For anything placed before me is secondary to me. Not only
secondary, it is after, it is after me. And anything that is after me, I am
the creator of that after. So Neo, unless you're particularly fascinated
with "afters", then don't you feel it is best to remain as before. All that
is before "after". And while you're ingesting that lot, beautiful one, the
divine expression of innocence, purity and exquisite joy, isn't it wonderful
that the whole space is actually light. There's no such thing as darkness.
It simply does not exist unless it comes after me, and then it only exists
if I then fear that which comes after me. For I am the eternal endless
this-ness.

Gorgeous delightful Neo, that's why she laughs, for she is woman. And
woman bleeds; as Christ bled from the Cross in the utter and complete
revelation that my home where I have always searched for, I am already in
it. I've never not been in it, and as I bow down, not in subserviance but
in exquisite joy in the recognition that that which I am, that which you
are, exquisite Neo, and all the other sparks of light at NDS are that which
keeps me divinely drunk and the recognition that my heart is a place of
prayer, and the taxman now wants me to do my taxes.

Love Pou
----------

NEO:

I never said I was awake and I am not trying to fool anyone. You make a lot
of assumptions of what I realize. In this that we call the world there is no
past and no future, only the ever present now.


I don't know, but it seems that you are projecting your own thoughts on to
me.

Well your email was most interesting. I did find it strange and it did make
me laugh. I am not sure of the point. Perhaps it had none.

POU:
Divine beauty Neo,

Beautiful one, you also never said you were asleep. And the idea of fooling
anyone is just another romantic notion. Others? Oh, such a delightful
miscarriage of justice to have others and all there is, is me. And every
time I go to look for me, I can never find myself. So I search here and I
search there. And I find there is no me and there are no others. All there
is is the delightful search for no-one and no thing just searching..
searching for the searcher...

When we're speaking about the world, divine Neo, of course we're talking
about the outward going mind, another one of my merry creations that exists
in a temporary abyss. First I project it, then I reject it, and all said
and done I introject it. Such as the life of the world.

Would the court arise.

She is hereby charged in this court of law with stating that you are
God, a punishment in the most severe of punishments of being cast into the
eternal endless now , of being wrecked in the ocean of bliss. And having to
stand in the existence of loving, lover, and all that is loved.

This court now sentences you forever to love.

Gorgeous, divine creation, of that which was before after Bhagwan Sri Neo.
If she has decided to stop leaving the shade and endlessly entering into
the hot sun in search of shade, then you and I can simply relax knowing
there is one less clown seeking work here in this circus of the mind.

Beloved Neo, have you retired from the circus of the mind? Or are you
seeking employment? If only I could project my thoughts onto me. What an
introjected projected thought that would be! What a glorious celebration if
I could only find "me".

The wonder of the totality of all, I have failed you miserably. To only
have you laugh for a moment leaves me feeling utter and total despair.

You say you're not sure of the point, well delightful dancer, the reason a
mystery is a mystery, is because it's a mystery. If you know the point it's
no longer a mystery is it? So secretly you don't really want to know the
point do you? Because aren't we all in awe of the mystery? But the movies
playing and no-one's watching it.

Mystified Pou


SARLO:
Osho sez: "Be a joke unto yourself!"

HARSHA:
Osho not only said it, he proved it! (:-).

POU:
Bhagwan

Sarlo knows this one. Well, if he doesn't he should do, after all its his
job to know!

I'll try and repeat the story as best as I know it.

One day in the ashram, during an evening discourse an enlightened Japanese
woman approached the podium that Sri Rajneesh spoke from.

Sri Rajneesh threw flowers - rose petals - over this delightful exquistely
beautiful enlightened Japanese woman and Rajneesh left the auditorium.

The next day

this delightfuly enlightened Japanese woman wrote to the Master sayin:

"Why do you see yourself higher than I am by remaining up on the podium.
Cannot you see we're one? Do you still see yourself as special?

The Master wrote back to the delighful little Japanese woman (not verbatim)

"Of course, there are not degrees of self, but what you have realised is
only the positive side of enlightenment. In other words there is still
somebody there having the enlightenment . The real work is to go beyond
this state. This no state state. To the enegative state of enlightenment
where there is no 'i' having anything.

Please forgive me Sarlo, as you may have copyright clearance, you may be
able to share what was actually said word for word.

Sri Rajneesh in the early days said (not verbatim):

"If you think it was difficult, the journey of awakening, then the journey
from the positive state of enlightenemtn to the negative state of
enlightenment is ten times more difficult.

Pink Pou

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
POLAR, XAN & DAN


POLAR:
For any non-duality creation to exist there must be its opposite-
duality. Hence non-duality doesn´t exist, only duality is real.

You can bring light into darkness but not the other way round-
therefore only darkness is always there.All is darkness and light
just comes along to play around a little bit on the black screen.
Isn´t that what we are doing here in this Saloon? It could be
called the Duality Saloon-but than there´d be nothing to rub up
against I guess.

XAN
~ Yes, only duality exists in the dimension of duality.

And yet, there is such a thing as 'stepping out' of the realm
of opposites altogether. It is a shift in consciousness in which
darkness and light both appear as expressions of energy
in a boundless sky of beingness.

No kidding.

Xan


DAN:
Dear Xan and Polar,
Enjoying your dialogue.

Your give and take echoes these words
said about Jesus:
"The Light walked among the darkness,
and the darkness knew it not."

Light played lightly in the darkness.

Ah, the unknowing darkness -- when
it stops trying to know, there
is only light.

The darkness is the light, allowing
itself to play (as this universe)
-- when not-knowing is seen
as how the light "allows" its
play.

Flickering,
Dan

~~~~~~~~
XAN MICHELE

Michele:
every year my parents remind me the 29 of September:
"Michele it is your name-day, the day of Archangel Michael,
congratulations, the vibrant power of Michael is in
you...don't forget...praise to God..."

As a child I was fascinated by a small picture of the
Archangel Michael defeating the "devil". The power of light
and the dark side. Strength and understanding versus lie
and unconsciousness.

Over the years I found more interpretations of the picture
and the understanding goes deeper:

The sword as a symbol of conscious awareness, the devil or
dragon as the "dark side", I heard a friend say, it is not
about killing the devil but to bring conscious awarness to
all those parts of the dragon in "me" that are unconscious,
about all "I should...or I should not", "I must...or must
not", "I have to..." Killing the devil: That's what the
catholic church wants to do with the so called "evil": I
have tried it as a child - it didn't functione. The result:
guilt and shame, shame and guilt. So, it is not about
killing but about ascencion, bringing light into darkness.

Today I recognise the power of Archangel Michael as an act
of utter compassion. Compassion with the sword. Compassion
cutting through darkness. Never ending compassion.
What has this to do with the NDS? I am missing that kind of
compassion. The world we live in is a dragon that is
becoming bigger and bigger, the dragon has seduced the
enlightend ones, the state of "no I" can/may be as selfish
as any other state of the mind, more than ever the
force/strenght/power of St. Michael is needed to raise
consciousness, living force of life, ...



XAN:
~ I like what you have said here, Michele.

I recognize that rejecting, excluding and fighting
the 'dark side' is not the nature of love,
which is all-inclusive.

Not only that, I have met very bright 'devils'
and dark, velvety angels.

Compassion leads me to give up
trying to sort out good and bad,
and simply let Love love it all.

Xan


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JIVANO, FRANZ, HARSHA

FRANZ
shit, I have never found an inner truth, for which
I can stand. I found no inner voice, saying what to
do, no inner authority, no inner god.

JIVANO:
So this is your truth. Hence no need to find any other.
This 'Inner Voice' thing is just a saying, a way to
express something which does not come from outside
(as opinions of others, wish to be mom's beloved,
morale or anything else which comes directly
OR INDIRECTLY from others). For me it's that
"what I find right to do". What I find right to
say. What I don't find right to do or to say.
Even if others are totally against it.
Even if others are not going to love me for
(to love somebody 'for' something is not love
anyway but a form of manipulation in the name
of love).

That's it.

FRANZ:
Whenever I hear something coming from within, whenever I know exactly
what to do, it has always come from the past.

JIVANO:
To know what I feel right to do at the moment
does not mean that I am sure - not at all.
But including this uncertainty - I know what
I feel right to do. And if I don't know what
to do, than it's right to say (to myself or
to others) "I don't know".

FRANZ:
I have changed my live, and I am very lucky in the moment. Everything
falls into its right place. It feels as if there was an inner voice,
saying what to do.

JIVANO:
Yes. That's obviously your truth -
according to my feeling.

FRANZ:
But if I really look, there remains nothing. I know, but I don't know
from where I know.

JIVANO:
There's nothing more to it.

FRANZ:
So how do you guys manage to stand for your own truth?

JIVANO:
I can only speak for myself:
The same way as you are doing it now.
Saying what feels right for me.
Nothing more.

FRANZ:
From where does it come?

JIVANO:
I don't know. If I would know the why and where
it would not be what it is, because then it would
have a reason and not simply be my truth.

FRANZ:
Please tell me. Is there something I miss?

JIVANO:
Not that I could think of.
But for me you seem to have something too much:
the opinion that it should be otherwise,
the idea how it should be,
the hope to 'hear' a voice from wherever
(from heaven?).
This opinions, ideas, hopes and expectations
are just that: opinions, ideas, hopes and
expectations. And the truth - your truth -
is independant from that, obviously.

FRANZ:
Many thanks

JIVANO:
No need to thank me, I'm just responding
to the truth of your statement out of my truth
- with what feels right for me to say.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HARSHA, JIVANO:

JIVANO:
Greetings to you, Harsha,

let me answer to your questions in
a slightly different order, then perhaps
I can be understood better.


HARSHA:
For your information, in my view, drugs, alcohol,
and cigarettes are poisonous to the body.
Sorry everyone. No offense. I don't mind if you get
drunk and lose a few more brain cells. Will bring
you closer to the nondual!
(:-).

JIVANO:
From my point of view, there are also drugs which
work primarily on the mind alone. Words and ideas
for example can be used to create illusions or
believes or can be used to enlarge illusions
or believes, which are basically against life.

Nietsche's concept of a 'superhuman' was used
in this way by the Nazis.

'Enlightenment' was/is used in this way by many
people in the spiritual scene.

'Non-duality' can be used in this way all too
easily.

When my house is on fire, I wouldn't like to have
the help of a nondual fireman, reciting in front
of the bruning house:

Everything is just energy.
The house is Energy,
The fire is Energy.
Everything is just perfect.
Just let the house burn down,
the whole situation will balance itself.

Of course everything will balance itself,
the seeker is bound to stop the seeking effort
some day or the other. His sheer force to find
all the answers to his problems with his mind,
will exhaust the mind eventually - if not in this
life, then in the next, or in the next...

But perhaps, the outcome of the situation will be it,
that he creates so much suffering for himself
with all the ideas and concepts about spirituality,
that he commits suicide or is finally in such a
painfull situation, that he HAS to let a spiritual
friend correct his notions.

And if you think, there was no suffering, then we
certainly live in different worlds.

So one HAS to look at the cause of ones sufferings,
one HAS to. That's what pain is about, isn't it?
To give attention to what is causing the pain.

HARSHA:
My answer would it be:
Because everybody is crazy enough already.
Hi Jivano. You may be right but I am not sure what
you are saying in relationship to what I wrote.

JIVANO:
You were making statements which run down to:
"every teacher is true,
there is no false or true one."

If one is in such a state, where this is true,
no teacher would be needed at all.

So if I speak about a teacher, I speak about
a phase in the personal development, where
one is suffering from own false concepts and
ideas and wishes and so on. And you answered
with a statement from a point of view, where
this is allready overcome.

This creates crazyness.

For my feeling Bhagwan was the first one, to use
his Truth as a poison for the mind of his disciples.
He fed the mind through endless lectures about
states beyond the mind (which were certainly HIS
truth). But it was not the reality of most of
his Sannyasins, and he knew that perfectly.
He used it as a device. As a bait to bring people
into connection with spirituality.

But times have changed. This bait is no longer
needed. It's time to take the step. And that
must be - in my opinion - to start with one's
own reality.

Am I enlightened ?
Am I free from greed, jealousy, envy, wanting ... ?
Am I satisfied with my life ?
Is this really meditation or my doing ?
Am I really in non-duality, or am I still chosing?

Stuffing peoples mind with something, which is
not in accordance with their actual reality,
is manipulation, is making them grazy, is given
them illusions.


HARSHA:
Jivano-Ji. I extend my sympathies and love.
Don't worry about becoming more greedy.
Maybe it just comes with age.

JIVANO:
That's a nice statement, I like it.
I don't worry about becoming greedy.
My development is not in my hands anyway.

BUT this is my truth
AFTER intense bodywork to awaken the Kundalini.
AFTER endless Satsangs where I was not allowed to chose.
AFTER emotional catarthis within a setup discipline.
AFTER 10.000 hours teaching under the direct supervision
of a teacher.

And it was worth it, that's not the point.
But anybody using ideas when they are not her or
his personally experienced truth, will go into
the wrong direction.

These insights are given after experiences,
they cannot be copied from one person to the next.
One tree cannmot copy the fruits of another tree.

First the price - then the priceless.
Not vice versa.


HARSHA:
Jivano-ji, I am at a loss here. Are you an engineer,
programmer, or an accountant?

JIVANO:
Computer programmer. .o)


HARSHA:
Down with these spiritual drug dealers!
These fraudulent bastards! Do your thing Jivano-Ji.
Call the spiritual police and chase them out of town!
(:-). We actually agree, it seems to me! Now we need
a consensus on who the frauds are! I am getting my
list ready. I copied it from Dan! (:-).

JIVANO:
Let's start with the Indian gurus then!
And show me the Indian who's not a guru! (:o)

HARSHA:
When practical circumstances permit, I love to
talk about life, consciousness, love, Self-Realization,
etc. I have been moved by my own suffering
(horrific at times) and that of others.
If I was not doing it through internet,
I would be writing and responding to letters.
I do it because I love to do it for now and
circumstances permit me.

JIVANO:
I like to do verbal fights - and therapists
and gurus are activating my blood pressure.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GENE JIVANO

NDS

I read of the lament of some who do;
Who have heart
And pain
And refuse to give up

To refuse to sink
To flippant
To superficial
To artificial

Those who see
That up is not down
Down is not up
Bad is not good;

To you I bow.

A ship in stormy sea
Safely tethered at anchor
Chain links connected
I honor that chain;

Each link is safety
From the violence of the storm
And the great anchor
Itself inviolate,

Your knowing is true
Your heart does pain
Your eyes do cry
The storm is real;

Death, pain, deprivation
Are realities
Like wolves circling
A locked and barricaded house,

Strength and courage
Perseverance and commitment
Foresight and wisdom
All are needed

No matter if someone says:
"There is no wolf!
Come out and play!"
The anchor remains firm,

This is safety,
This is security,
This is the best to do
Do the best that can be done,

You who do.

Know, you who do,
There are others who
Like dolphins swim
In the storm freely,

And in that freedom
Is their safety,
Even as they see your anchor
And wonder why it is there,

They may assume
To know you and
They may tell you
You are like them;

'If only you knew,
You would love the wolf
And you would not be eaten
And would need no anchor';

And you might say to them:
"Foolish fish, beware of sharks,
Do you not know
Of death and pain?"

Know that the one in the house
Will resist breaking of locks
By one who assumes
That all will enjoy the storm,

What is safe to one
Is death to the other
Yet each is dear
Sister and brother,

Perhaps it could be said
That each assumes a way
Which the other does not;
Which way will prevail?

Those who insist on one way only
Make war on everyone
Everyone will suffer!
Winners and losers in that war,

This we have seen;
We know it as fascism:
"All must be one way"
and "Those who deviate will die".

Now, we all have the need
To remain free of fascism;
So to have this freedom
We must give freedom to each other,

This we have seen.
And we have also seen
That the roots of fascism
Are 'spiritual' by design,

The blithe and glib acceptance
Of the 'Good by the good'
Makes two families
Always at war;

I prefer war
To fascism
My father taught me that;
Yet he did not see

The war within himself
Between his internal fascist
And his own freedom
And this is what he taught me to see,

By his example of blindness
I am able to know the difference;
Able in the most practical way
To detect a tyrant,

Who with gun or sweetness
Coerces freedom into prison,
Of conformity or else
Hell on Urth is the fate;

So to resist tyrants,
Is to keep freedom
Won by knowing tyrants;
By their fruits we know them.

So! When you hear this said:

"You suffer because
You are incompetent;
Let me be your Master
To end your suffering",

If you resist,
You must do it yourself.
With no Master to do it for you,
It is your responsibility;

If you do not resist,
You are responsible
For all that follows;
Do not blame the Master!

"I was only following
The Master's orders!"
Does not absolve
You of your decisions.

"You do not know the way"
"You are blind, and one
Who is blind does harm,
Let me teach you to see"

Such is the lure
Offer to the good people
To give up themselves
To the unknown;

To become like dolphins
To be free in the storm
To ignore the wolf,
Such is the promise;

Know the game
See how it works
Save yourself and everyone
A repeat of a bad drama.

Remember; the roots
Of fascism
Are spiritual by design;
Based in morality,

Ethics, values, and
Even principles of 'non-harm';
Even an army of 'non-harmers'
Is still an army,

An army of Christians
An army of Muslims
An army of vegetarians
An army of nondualists

Creeds breed feelings,
Living in feeling creeds,
Can lead to deeds
And then someone bleeds.


My thoughts to those who do...


==Gene Poole==


JIVANO:
My greetings to the dolhins
and the sharks who swim freely
in the storm of non-doing.

There is no envy to join
your freedom, because I know
the sea will break my chains
and anchors in due time.
Who knows why my ship is
anchored in rationality?
As long as there is a chance
that this ship can be used to
be a resting place for others
who are still fearing the
sea with all it's beautiful
monsters of irrationality,
I myself don't want it to
be any different than it is.

Jivano

I do - but not Yahoo!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MARK CHRISTOPHER VALENYINE

The Source

How does one look madness in the eyes
and still say
I see myself in your heart, soul, your spirit

How does one hold the hand of infinite suffering
and not find
that our skin has been blistered, charred and fused.

How does one embrace unmitigated hatred
and yet discover
so much love within the mind, heart, soul, the spirit

that an everlasting well of Compassion
sweet, cool and wet
arises and flows into the universe relentlessly

With stillness, openness, emptiness, with tranquility,
One touches the secret Beloved within and finds herself revealed
in that madness, suffering, that hatred and must needs embrace oneself.

Only fools fail to discover that Love is the one true Source.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SERA asks a Question?

SERA:
but I have been lurking here for awhile now and sometimes feel as if
my head is about to split open as I read thru some of these posts.

I have questions and I'm not sure what they are. Just a feeling that
either I am missing something or that something is being missed.

I will try to be breif.

NonDuality. I have no understanding of what this means to anyone.
If
anything. It seems almost as if the concept, the word is jargon.

I look around me at others and the "I" of me melts easily as I wonder
what it would be like to have access to someone else's "I" I seem to
feel and "know" that no matter how many "I's" there happens to be
that
all are the same stuff. Different forms and faces of God, Light,
Love, whatever.

I also seem to feel, to think, to know, that there is a reason for
all
of the different "I's" and that they are all of the same stuff is a
GIVEN while the reasons for the differences is NOT.

There is no striving in me to accept that there really are no
boundaries, yet there is a striving in me to learn to accept that "I"
am here, as are we all, earthbound, in order to accept and love each
and every "I" including myself.

I think that I get the impression that "NonDuality" has something to
do with negating the "I." Please correct me if I am wrong. And, if
I
am correct in my impression, please tell me how dissolving of the ego
brings one closer to enligtenment? For me, I have always attempted
to
follow the path of compassion and love by being ruthlessly as honest
as possible with myself about my MOTIVES. As I uncover layer after
layer and confront shadow after shadow and through it all continue to
love and feel tolerance and compassion, I think I grow towards some
enlightenment, or at least closer to "being."

Thank you for your time,
sera



POU:
Dear Sera

I'm sure there will be many replies to your exquisite inquisitiveness.

Self delights in asking itself the question "Who am I?" There has never
been a moment in the whole of eternity that the self has never not known
itself. It still loves to ask itself "Who am I?" It delights never not
forgetting for a moment that it is the answer asking the question.

Sugar doesn't know it's own sweetness, so it invented the ant to discover
the taste of sweetness.

Absolute subjectivity doesn't know itself as objectivity, so it invented
people like you to ask questions and it invented idiots like me to anwer
that which can never be answered.

I'm sure the rest of the happy little chappies at NDS will share with you
their divinely unique insights from the tours of the mysterium.

Was it Shakespeare who said "men must endure their going hence even as their
coming hither.
Ripeness is all".

Pou



DAN:
Dear Sera,

For me, Nonduality is
a word addressing Reality
as nondivided.

The mind stops in its tracks
confronted by nonconfrontation,
Reality without any borders,
in which all conceptual borders
are subsumed. The mind still
functions, only the nonmoving
Awareness beyond mind is experienced
as "fully present". Talk about "no I"
is just a way to say that in this
fully present Awareness, no center
based in the past is.


JAN:
When it is known what a concept stands for, like the sweetness of
honey, everyone will *know* what is meant (by experience of course).
But with nonduality and duality it's a bit different: when nonduality
is *known*, both duality and nonduality immediately lose their meaning...
So the intellectual understanding of nonduality equals to explaining
the sweetness of honey with biochemistry - that won't affect one's
taste of honey one bit and those, not knowing the taste will only
be confused.


One only has to read Ramana to find a lot about "I". But the sense of
"I" can also be translated as presence or just being. What is meant is
that the sense of doership is a false one: before the thought " I am
responding to..." can arise, the readiness to that response is already
present. Therefore, this sense of "I am responding" is a false one..
So the "exercise" is: "who am I?"

From the perspective that incessant mental activity will veil what
could be called pristine clarity of mind, quieting mental activity will
sooner or later reveal this ever present stillness (by whatever name that
goes).

SERA:
What then, when "this ever present stillness" is revealed? It is
acknowledged and then...the body, the self still is there and still
has work to do...eating, sleeping, writing to this list, it all must
still be done, even if it is, as you say, that doing is "false"


JAN:
As long as there is the sense of doership, motives will be perceived
although a motive is a tendency and a tendency could be called conditioned
responsiveness. Love and compassion are so called natural tendencies; they
are the backbone of "civilized" society and engraved in our genes. That is
why love and compassion can be such "easy" entries for "enlightenment"
(whatever that is :) - among others, they require emotional maturity...


SERA:
I don't define "motive" as the same as a tendency. Motive is born of
the "self" but there are layers to the self that the self has not
always an awareness of.

Hmmmmm....you give me much to think about since I think that love and
compassion are not the backbone of civilized society but that they
are
engraved in our genes. Love and compassion, natural tendencies, yes,
but conditioned responses...no. "Civilized" society seems to
condition the "self" away from the love and compassion I speak of.

Love and comapssion are only easy when they are words spoken. When
they resonate in the soul and also felt in the "self" they are not so
"easy" at all.

I tried to speak clearly and I shouldn't have used "enligtenment"
without defining it for the purpose of my post! I meant only a
growing awareness in my "self" that I am not that "self" but linked
inextricably with others...I think Jung calls it "the collective
unconscious" and I see it as all the higer selves as being one.

For some reason, becasue it is late I think, the Borg come to mind!
:) And of course, that's not what I'm talking about at all!

thank you for your reply and for making me think!
sera


SANDEEP
NonDuality. I have no understanding of what this means to anyone.
If anything. It seems almost as if the concept, the word is jargon.

Indeed it is a concept.

Anything, ever said, written by anybody at any time, is all conceptual
whether that be Jesus or Buddha or anybody.

Some concepts are superficial, some dig deep, like a thorn used to dig out
another deeply embedded thorn.
Then both thorns are kept aside.

Non-Duality or Adavit, in essence means Not Two.
Or, All that is, appears to be, appeared to be in the past, is happening in
this present moment, and is to happen in the future is all Consciousness,
God, Micky Mouse, Jerry Springer, or whatever name that you wish to use.

And that "happening" is only relevant, has a meaning, within the phenomenal
context.

Your "head about to split open" with the "craping" in the NDS if that is
really "occuring" in Sera is exactly what Consciousness wants to achieve
through the biological computer labelled "Sera" in that moment.


SARA:
I seem to feel and "know" that no matter how many "I's" there happens to be
that all are the same stuff. Different forms and faces of God, Light,
Love, whatever.

SANDEEP:
After that where is the problem, what is the issue left for Sera?

The craping on NDS which is causing your head to split, is also that same
God, Light, Love, having fun.


SERA:
I also seem to feel, to think, to know, that there is a reason for
all of the different "I's" and that they are all of the same stuff is a
GIVEN while the reasons for the differences is NOT.


SANDEEP:
Hey, that, I think (if I get you right) is a tremendous statement.
Can you elaborate, clarify for this poor not native born English, Sandeep?

SERA:
Ok, sure, I'll elaborate if that's really what you want!! :)

Part of what is going on inside me what I read this list is a
struggle
to understand it all within a framework of belief that I have grown
accustomed to. And so, it is possible that the point is that I
shouldn't try to incorporate it at all, just accept it as what it is.
But I want to understand it too...so maybe I am trying to hold on to
what I already believe and fight something that is new.

I've traveled this road where I tried too early to love others
unconditionally and to do that without some understanding of what it
means to do so causes emotional pain to the self. Especially because
my motives were not so unselfish as I thought them to be at the time.

Somehow I learned from all of this that I had to love myself as
unconditionally first. To respect myself as being part of the
divine,
part of "it all" After that, things opened inside of me, I opened,
and I realized that there were no boundaries, and it all seemed so
obvious. And I was entralled by that too. Putting that to language,
the mental gymnastics, and I saw in that the "ego" too. During that
period of "time" I had something violent happen to me. And out of
that lesson I came to the belief that it was a lesson after all. A
lesson learned hard by the "self" but one I was, eventually, grateful
for, because for the "self" to have a lesson, there was value in the
self AS the self.

And so my focus has been on seeing the differences, all the different
faces of God, all the manifestations, all the lessons and learning
going on around me. All the paths that "selfs" are on. And also on
keeping in the mind of my "self" that I have to acknowledge both the
connetion, which is easy to me, and the illusion of difference. Why
is there any illusion of difference if there is not some meaning to
it?

And now I find myself here at the NDS and wondering about the thing
that I said seems to be a "given" to me. That we are all the same
stuff. I close my eyes, focus on my breathing and I can feel that, I
try to allow that to inform any action my "self" takes. And I wonder
if "that" is anymore important that dealing with the self that I am
in
this incarnation. I am not a wisewoman, I am not trying to be right,
I am only seeking...

......

SERA
There is no striving in me to accept that there really are no
boundaries, yet there is a striving in me to learn to accept that "I"
am here, as are we all, earthbound, in order to accept and love each
and every "I" including myself.

Fine.


SERA:
I think that I get the impression that "NonDuality" has something to
do with negating the "I." Please correct me if I am wrong. And, if
I am correct in my impression, please tell me how dissolving of the ego
brings one closer to enligtenment?


SANDEEP:
Forget the enlightenment bit, how does ego dissolve the ego is the key
question?

And yet the sense of personal doership, the "me--entity" in conceptual
entites does get erased, acausally, non-volitionally,
We popularly call these "circus acts", as Enlightenment.


SERA:
For me, I have always attempted to
follow the path of compassion and love by being ruthlessly as honest
as possible with myself about my MOTIVES.

SANDEEP:
Terrific.
And what motives do you usually have Sera?


SERA:
As I uncover layer after
layer and confront shadow after shadow and through it all continue to
love and feel tolerance and compassion, I think I grow towards some
enlightenment, or at least closer to "being."


SANDEEP:
You know Sera, could you meet me at the Bondi beach?
You are very very interesting and no doubt beautiful<s>.......

SERA:
Thank you for your time,


SANDEEP:
Thank you for your thoughts.
A bow to you Sera

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JERRY GLORIA

The following was posted to the See-What-Is list on egroups.
I dedicate it to Gloria:

--Jerry

--------------------------------------------

Dear Jerry,

My, my, this is quite an honor for a "night table Buddhist." :)
You probably remember how awed I was by seeing the creation of a sand
mandala in
progress at the Tibetan Folklife exhibits on the mall in Wash DC. Before
that I
had met one of the young monks who actually worked on making the mandala for
the
movie Kundun, and I asked him how it felt to work so meticulously on
something
he knew was made only to be so soon destroyed. He just smiled and said
impermanence was part of the purpose of it. When you contrast that with our
more
usual idea that art is something created to last, like what we put in
museums,
there truly is a wonderful teaching in the sand mandala's temporariness. The
art
of creating and seeing beauty within this present momentariness and letting
it
all go, nonattachment. Few of us may learn the art of creating intricate
mandalas, but there is another wonderful way to practice art and meditation
with
sand. A Zen sandbox can be a way to play with purposeful purposelessness,
or
design a miniature landscape... it is whatever you do with it, now this,
then
that. Clearly, this is optional, but people might like it, no Buddhism
required.
Oh my gosh, if I am playing in the sandbox, have I made it back to
kindergarten
already, Jerry? LOL

Jerry, did you ever see David Letterman's "brush with greatness" where
people in
the audience would tell about some encounter with a celebrity? In a kind of
brush with a brush way, this monk's still very young sister used to work in
the
Dalai Lama's office back in India, so I asked her to tell me something more
about him. It seems she had just returned from a year in Japan where she had
been offered some free training in fashion design, but it had felt to her
more
like she was being used for free labor. The Dalai Lama was listening very
carefully to her story and kept nodding his head very sympathetically, so
she
went on and on about how awful and disappointing this had been for her and
how
hard it was to learn to speak the language. When she finally stopped, he
nodded
even more vigorously and said, "Excellent, very good experience, very
good."
Then she caught this twinkle in his eye and they both burst out laughing.

She was one of the volunteers working at that teaching he gave in NYC back
in
'99, along with many Tibetans who have emigrated here, and HH met with all
of
them for a whole afternoon afterwards. Sure, he gave a little thank you
talk,
but most of the time he was asking them to tell him how it was going for
them
here. He really listens to his people, such a nice guy.

And so are you, Jerry, so are you.

Love,
Gloria

top of page