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From: WillCalvin@aol.com

This "universal sadness" is something felt, neither "good nor bad" but felt
at the core. Nisargadatta once said something to the effect that "if there
was no suffering, no one would turn to God". I see for myself that seeing and
feeling what I would term a "sadness" is actually a quiet sweetness, a
tearful pointer. My attention is there, but does not dwell there, simply
sees.


Dan:

Sadness is an aspect of my connection to humanity. I am grateful for it.


Jerry:

I feel sadness, but I am not sad. The shades I wear aren't
my eyes.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What you are in essence - not the body, mind or personality - is already free
and has never been anything but free. The rediscovery of that simplicity
feels miraculous in the context of our complex human existence.

Xan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gloria G:

The only true freedom comes from Divine Will so that in this we are absorbed
into the truth of the universe and free from the anchors of the Earth. This is
the freedom to be cosmic travelers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am the pain and complexity
of the one dreaming mind in miriad expressions
and I am the silent perfect love behind, within,
around all that - hidden and not hidden.

Xan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Marcia:

I feel that it is possible to create something in the
space between two people.

"Wherever two or more are gathered in my name there
I am also."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

life is beyond pain? Why should I live my life by anothers
conditions(ing)? Why should I live life in fear? Your escape to the
Buddha mind is just that, an escape... just like drugs, alcohol, tv,
sleep, vacation, sex, whatever you do to get away... wholely satasfying
and yet empty of reason in life nor can they be maintained for any
length of time.


No. Life is alive. Life is passion. Life is a cause. Life is a purpose.
Life is love. Life is creation.. and destruction. Life is e-motion
(energy motion). Life is all. Life is nothing. Is that not the message
of the Buddha mind? Then, once learned, why do you cling to this
attachment? Let it go and get back to your friends. Play with them,
teach them, and 'learn' with them. Share a life that is abundant in all
things. Or is it that you fear that you may lose that feeling of the
Buddha mind? How can one unknow? Did Buddha 'stop' after he reached his
Buddha mind? No. He 'moved', he taught, he learned, he shared and was
shared with, he laughed, he cried... he lived 'secure' in his 'knowing'.

"Take chances. Get messy. Make mistakes" is a quote from a show (The
Magic School Bus) that I watch with my son. Get involved. Why do you
drop your chains of existence only to bound yourself with the chains of
nonexistence. Why 'bound' your 'self' with 'freedom'? Don't preach your
truth.. live it! And see people open like flowers before you...
believe.. have faith.. live and be free... are these not the paths that
lead you to the Buddha mind? Then why now, upon attainment, do you drop
these things? You are only half way there!

Gentle Peace.

Tim Harris

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Each of us, each point, is an actualization of the same point.
We are each in all.

Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Nirmala

" Light through a prism, a rainbow.
Love through my heart,
the spectrum of feelings revealed.
Red anger to blue sadness,
yellow fear to black dispair.
Allow them back into my heart
and the prism works in reverse
turning the most deeply
tinted pain back into
pure white love."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Xanma@aol.com

from Pamela Wilson

" Love is like Mercury: Ungraspable.
It rests in the silence of
The Heart like the Sun
at the core of the galaxy.
Be quiet
and It seeks you,
until there is no difference
between seeker and sought.
Only the thrill of Oneness remains."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce wrote:

.... Picture a
few dozen pointing fingers,
some slender and graceful,
some callused and hirsute,
some straight and still,
some wagging and
gesturing passionately --
yet all honestly trying to
draw the reader's
perception toward the very
same great, ultimately
inexpressible truth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Conjoining happens when we
let go of our desire for recognition and
connection and notice the unity that
already exists.

Xan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I believe
that it is this stillness of the Buddha mind is the half way point and that
the
task becomes the ability of one to 'move' in this state in everyday
experience... thus not creating bad karma but only good.

As for who the 'masters' are, they are you, they are me... we can only master
our 'self'.... anything else is teaching or learning... thank you for your
response... it clears 'my' muddied waters on this issue... in other words.. I
don't want to be a monk... I want to be a father, a husband, a friend, an
experience... lol...

Gentle Peace.

Tim Harris

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce:

realization may be
instantaneous and
effortless, but
communication always
seems arduous in one way
or another. ...


Dan:

That which is instantaneous and effortless
is also deep and difficult to grasp...

Its appearance as a "thief in the night"
isn't always so easy to accomodate

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tim G:

freedom HAS to begin with "the individual." The only divide that can
be crossed is the divide within, our own tendency to separate everything
into "good and bad," "right and wrong," "freedom and slavery," "us and
them." The duality of opposites must be annihilated within each person, or
freedom does not exist and will never exist. As long as there is conflict
and duality within "individuals," there will be conflict in "the external
world." Freedom begins within, and nowhere else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marcia:

I have found that when I think I know I am least likely to
know and when I am unknowing I am open.


Dan:

Though I think that I know what I know and thus mean what I say
This doesn't mean that what I think I know is meaningful

My knowing is not what I think
My meaning is not what I think I mean


Marcia:

I can't really know anything afresh. If I know it, it
is already in the past.

Dan:

What I know is in the past
My knowing is the present

My knowledge is static
My knowing is being

I know my name
My knowing has no name

Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An early stage seems to be
the idea of Self and infinity is
there and the real-ization of it
has yet to come. We humans,
especially westerners have
come to exalt the intellect.
Moreover, many of us moved
up to live in our heads to avoid
the pain in our bodies from not
being loved, heard and accepted.
Naturally, this phase of awakening
would begin here for many people.

As Glo said "It's all perfect."
My understanding of that is,
there is an evolution of con-
consciousness going on in
our world and the more we
accept this present moment
of that process the more
ease and joy there is in it.

Xan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marcia -

Personally I think that alot of talking about realized states
and realization is all in the head and not grounded in the
body.

Dan:

Knowing in the body is key...
The body is the container of the fear and wisdom
It is where the ongoing work is done
Jesus: This is my body
(my body is the world)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When hungry, be hungry
When suffering, suffer

There is no accepting or not accepting
no entity who can accept or reject
I am not saying this glibly, or as if it is an easy "answer"

Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(borrowing from one of Sandeep's poems,
and offered to my family on this
'Independence Day'....)


There is a place
buried deep within all of us

where there exists no
pain
from our yesterdays,

where there exists no fear
for our
tomorrows.

There is a place
buried deep within all of us,

where Love simply Is.

I'll meet you there.
~Melody Anderson
'Independence' Day, 1999

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Ivan:
>Ahhh......I call meditation the non-centered awareness. All
>other forms of forml meditations are, imo, diferent kinds of con-
>centration, practices, efforts -- even the effort not make efforts......

Yes, then meditation and non-meditation are one at this point.
------------
Ivan: Finaly we may disgree :^)

Does disagreement mean one is right and one is wrong?
If so, then how can disagreement lead to truth?
These disagreements are simply one opinion conflicting with another.
As truth is not an opinion, no truth can come from this kind of argument.
Only a better-informed opinion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Tim Gerchmez <fewtch@eskimo.com>


Tidbits from "Jonathon Livingston Seagull," by Richard Bachman...
"Nonduality and Fiction" is the appropriate category.

-----------------------------------------------------------
"Sullivan sighed, but he did not argue. 'I think I'll miss you, Jonathon,'
was all he said.

'Sully, for shame!' Jonathan said in reproach, 'and don't be foolish! What
are we trying to practice every day? If our friendship depends on things
like space and time, we've destroyed our own brotherhood! But overcome
space, and all we have left is Here. Overcome time, and all we have left
is Now. And in the middle of Here and Now, don't you think that we might
see each other once or twice?'

Sullivan Seagull laughed in spite of himself. 'You crazy bird,' he said
kindly.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"The next night from the Flock came Kirk Maynard Gull, wobbling across the
sand, dragging his left wing, to collapse at Jonathon's feet. 'Help me,'
he said very quietly, speaking in the way that the dying speak. 'I want to
fly more than anything else in the world...'

'Come along then,' said Jonathon. 'Climb with me away from the ground, and
we'll begin.'

'You don't understand. My wing. I can't move my wing.'

'Maynard Gull, you have the freedom to be yourself, your true self, here
and now, and nothing can stand in your way. It is the Law of the Great
Gull, the Law that Is.'

'Are you saying I can fly?'

'I say you are free.'

As simply and as quickly as that, Kirk Maynard Gull spreads his wings,
effortlessly, and lifted into the dark night air. The Flock was roused
from sleep by his cry, as loud as he could scream it, from five hundred
feet up; 'I CAN FLY! LISTEN! I CAN FLY!'

By sunrise there were nearly a thousand birds standing outside the circle
of students, looking curiously at Maynard. They didn't care whether they
were seen or not, and they listened, trying to understand Jonathan Seagull.

He spoke of very simple things--that it is right for a gull to fly, that
freedom is the very nature of his being, that whatever stands against that
freedom must be set aside, be it ritual or superstition or limitation in
any form.

'Set aside,' came a voice from the multitude, 'even if it be the Law of the
Flock?'

'The only true law is that which leads to freedom,' Jonathan said. 'There
is no other.'

'How do you expect us to fly as you fly?' came another voice. 'You are
special and gifted and divine, above other birds.'

'Look at Fletcher! Lowell! Charles-Roland! Judy Lee! Are they also
special and gifted and divine? No more than you are, no more than I am.
The only difference, the very only one, is that they have begun to
understand what they really are and have begun to practice it.'

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Nav stated in his or her first letter:
"Friend of mine recommended this list (HarshaSatsangh)
because I am interested in spirituality." Please read that
line again. If it didn't sound wimpy to you the first time,
I hope it does now.

Being curious is okay, but being very hungry, or aching 'to
know', is a lot better. I hope you have some fire in you.
Because your questions are nothing better than green
firewood.

Now curiosity can lead to hunger. If one can see why they
are curious, and penetrate what that is, then one can become
hungry to go deeper and deeper. And that's really why you
were sent here, not to have your questions answered.

So, as I asked in a separate post, Why are you here? Is it
mere interest and curiosity? Or are you a drowning man in
need of oxygen? There isn't much in between.

---Jerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I remember in 1975 asking for a book on Kundalini, and they
wouldn't sell it to me. The guy said it was too dangerous.
He said those books were only for people who'd gone through
certain training. He probably sized me up and knew me better
than I knew myself. Nowadays you go into the Bodhi Tree and
they're handing out discount coupons for Kundalini books.
How times have changed.

---Jerry

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gloria Lee offered:

Simplify, simplify, simplify. _____Thoreau

"I love you just the way you are." _____Mr. Rogers

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