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XAN

I am constantly amazed at the uniqueness of each unfoldment
of the universal.

Seen from here, what we say to one another and how we say
it is beside the point. It is all a matter of intention,
and beyond that is only a matter of style, which seems to
remain regardless of liberation.

I discover in this space that is uniquely mine, more and
more subtle levels of energy contractions/vasanas/habits of
mind. The transformation of these back into their
origination in silence is the story to end all stories ...
the grand drama of dreaming the end of dreams. If it were
not captivating to us, why would we bother talking to each
other at all about non-duality, "I" thoughts, and on and
on.

Come to think of it, I am now tired of talking about it.

_______________________________________________________

MICHAEL

I do know that my best moments of ripening came out of
horrible self inflicted ego/mind suffering ignorance.
Believing that other people, books, teachers, etc. were
somehow going to enlighten me...didn't work for me. Going
deep into the suffering...feeling it deeply... not running
away...that darkness is where the tiniest light seems like
heaven.

_________________________________________________________

HANS

Have you ever heard of the story that *someone* heard Osho
say to somebody : "I'm so tired of acting enlightened
everyday ...." That *someone* had the shock of his life and
i believe that was the intention of Osho. He must have
known that that *someone* had some very weird ideas about
him.

J.Krishnamurti entered a clothing shop and said to the
salesman : "I want to buy all the stocks you have in your
shop". The person that was following K. everywhere he went
for quite sometime heard this , went home and stopped
following K. because he must have thought - this man is not
enlightened, he is crazy-

K. was very happy !

BTW, i am too.

I love Osho dearly too ( i owe him a, lot) , but i have let
go off him and any other teacher and i am not interested at
all what people say about them.

HARSHA

Well stated Hans. All teachers disappear. All teachings
disappear. This is the final blessing and teaching of the
sages for those ready to grasp it. And this final blessing
also disappears after making it self felt as the direction
and grace and pull of the Heart. All existence depends on
"you". When the "I" vanishes, the universe vanishes in its
totality.

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DAVE

I remember once many years ago when I was talking to
someone about what all this is, this person said, "what I
think is that this is all just a big movie, just for me". I
looked at her and said, "O.K. then, what am I, chopped
liver?". Then I though, maybe it's actually just a big
movie just for me, and she said that to "make it more
real". Well, how are we really going to know?

Anyway, since then, I have seen the full reality. I saw the
dreamer and "his" dream. I know the dreamer isn't me.

How many gurus stopped there?

I still say "then what?"

It has been seen that many gurus (and I give gurus as a
good representative example) have participated extensively
in the proecess of erasing the concepts.

Erasing concepts and "me-ness" is a small part of freedom.
We learn to "walk" on this "Earth" in the void and it's all
just beginning. It's not the moment to throw your hands in
the air.

______________________________________________________

DAN: There is unprojected Reality. Otherwise, the word
'projection' would be useless. I realize that saying this
is itself projection.>

MIGUEL: And I ask, how is it that the projection can even
possibly speak about unprojected Reality? How come that Don
Quixote speaks about Cervantes, or Mickey Mouse about Walt
Disney? There is the Reality and everything else is
projection. There is a bridge between them: Reality knows
the projected. But is it a two-way road? Can the projected
speak about Reality? Or is this all a great piece of
nonsense? In that case why NDS at all?

___________________________________________________________

MELODY

When I first came to e-mail lists a couple of years ago,
one of the first fellas I met said to me, "Let it be."

This was, to me, a shattering notion at the time....

much like Osho's recommendation of not renouncing with
'intention'.

All my life I have dealt with a divided heart and mind...
one half saying "you should do this", or " you shouldn't do
that". I remained in a constant state of inner conflict.

"Let it be" says: embrace what ever arises, whatever you're
feeling, whatever thoughts flow thru you.

It says "resist nothing".

"Let it be" allows the inner struggle to fall away,

opens the door to simply 'witnessing' .........

and to no more 'clinging' to one outcome or another.

For me, as Martha says, "it's a very good thing".

_________________________________________________________

DAN

An intriguing question to me, moreso than how real or
unreal is this bodymind, is "where is the perception of
bodymind formed"? The perception doesn't occur "in" the
bodymind, because that is what is being perceived. But it
doesn't occur "outside" of the bodymind, either, because
that outside is what defines the bodymind as a bodymind.
The perception of "outside" is needed to define "inside".

If "I" am neither inside nor outside, where am I?

Once aware as neither inside nor outside, from whence could
be evaluated any position regarding my "reality" or
"unreality"?

__________________________________________________________

JODY: Realization occurs of it's own accord. It can happen
in any mental context, including one that includes desire.

MICHAEL: Thanks Jody, good point...:) I just don't want to
"think" that I have to "try" to renounce any thing.

JODY: Heaven forbid! Don't torture yourself (as I did)
fretting about what "should" be renounced. I wasted years
of my life on that shit. I'd hate to see anyone else make
the same mistake.

SARLO: Or, go ahead and torture yourself all you want.
Perhaps this is part of the mysterious ripening process
that only the individual can know whether it works or not.

GREG: Renunciation is actually a descriptive term, not a
prescriptive one. It describes the spontaneous falling away
of beliefs, attachments, desires, insights, achievements,
sufferings, etc. In orthodox religions, renunciation is
often taught as though things have to be pushed away. This
gets people's attention, but renunciation is really not
like that. Any time something's really gone, we can see
that it left by itself. Even the pushing came and left by
itself...

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