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...within the projection, there is nothing to prefer
over something else, since everything is of the "same stuff." On a
movie screen, differences are illusory, caused by light shining
through celluloid. An image of a diamond is light shining through
the film; so is an image of a cockroach, or a gorilla, or a dying
body. All these are the same thing.

Love,

Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Identify with the screen instead of the projection,
the screen being consciousness...

Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hans:
The problem seems to be that we are attaching to the image of the screen. if
we let go off any description, what does remain ? The screen ? :)
We are running around in circles. When someone starts talking to me about a
screen, i try to see the screen and then suddenly i realize that i can not
see the screen because i am the screen. We are trying to look at the screen
but the screen is looking at us ! So what can we do ? Ultimately, we have to
give up. The struggle is lost. Nothing can be done. Not a damn thing ! All
the stories told by teachers over and over again is only to make us
understand this. So it seems to be a contradiction but it is not. It only
appears to be so. I remember Osho said once : "what i have to say can be
written on the back of a postcard, but i have to keep talking to you
otherwise you will fall asleep again :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The whole movie thing would be no fun without suspension of disbelief.
A movie where the viewer doesn't forget that it's only a movie is dull.

andrew
***********

True, but the issue with the movie *analogy* isn't suspension of
disbelief, but rather the lack of "disbelief" altogether. A movie is
recognized as such; most take everyday life for "reality" and
consider the projection to be real, solid.

Think about watching a movie where suspension of disbelief is
*impossible*. Every time a character died you would scream, every
police chase would be fraught with incredible anxiety and fear.
Imagine watching "The Exorcist" or some incredibly graphic horror
movie, taking everything you were seeing as solid reality. Watching
such a movie would be sheer hell, massive suffering. How about
participating in it?

Love,

Tim
***********

Participate in it, fully madly deeply.
Alert, awake, precise, mindful, even-minded, consistent.

Or be a bliss-junky, numbed by knowledge of its unreality.
In anaesthetic lala limbo land. 'Awareness' as a crutch.

andrew
*********

Hmmm... He seems to be saying that not only is the suffering
an illusion. So is the bliss! :-))

Bliss freaks of the world unite! We'll show 'em! :-))
On to Tralfamadore! Transfundibulate Now!

HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

Peace - Nobody Here but us Chickens! - Michael


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Not forgetting,
this movie simply runs its course.
Whether it's fun or not is no longer a concern.
There is no disbelief in the movie, because
no one is watching it.

Love,
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, ever see a movie
where it stopped moving
and the projector started
burning a circle of light
in the middle?

Cool, huh?
(Unless you want to keep
watching the movie, that is).

Dan

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____


Is that like " " AM? :-))))

xxoo

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

" " ... " " ... " " ... !!!!

!!!!!!!!! " " !!!!!!!!!

xxooxxoo,

!
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____


And I wonder.
Full of wonder.
Wonder-ful.

Can you Know without knowing a thing?
Can you be Knowing without existing
as a know-er?

As you say, Marcia:
Can you know One without the 'other'?

Can you be One so fully that you are
beyond saying or knowing "I am One"?

"I" can't ;-)

Love, love, love,
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____


"He" knows when to turn me off. "He" has known when to touch me.
You and I all die over and again, as he wills. What else is there?

dave

Thanks Dave. You are perfectly right in a way. It seems that "turning off",
"turning on" are relative to each other. Such notions may be applicable to
the individual entity conceptualized as ego/mind. The scriptures say that
the unreal never was and the Real never ceases to be. Although we use the
statement, "the I vanishes", it falls short in description, as "vanishing"
presupposes a point of view, a particular perspective. In order for
something to vanish, its existence must be premised. But sages and scripture
say with beautiful and stunning clarity that the Real never ceases to be and
the unreal never was. All descriptions of this "Knowing" fail. Space, Time,
and the whole universe originate in this "Knowing." This "Knowing" is Its
Own Ground and Its Own Reference. It indeed has no reference points what so
ever. Absolutely none. This Knowing is the Heart. Swallowing everything in
its entirety, it sits Silent, Full and Complete, and Utterly Satisfied as
Pure Silence.
Love
Harsha
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

There's something that does'nt fit here.

Miguel-Angel
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When we perceived ourselves (just speaking for the old me-self :)
to be only a drop of water in the universal bucket,
the universe seems a cold, cruel, vast place with no meaning.
Thus, we suffer.

When we let go of that perception of isolation we come to understand
that something wonderful is the real existance...:-))

I hope that the above is enigmatic enough for you, Miguel. As Sri
Timji might say - let go of the something and let go of the need
for fitting things and there is no here. :-))

Suffering can stop when we stop trying to fit the universe into our
projection of ideas. We then see that there is nothing needed to
'fit'
into anything. :-))

Pay no attention to me...I'm not 'here'. ;-)))

HAHAHAH and HOHOHO!

Peace - Pass the Popcorn - Michael
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

> Right to the bone. Clear and concise and real,
> yet obviously radiating from the void.

Hi Dave...

Thanks. Good to hear this from a fellow man-machine...

more:

> > Much later, I attended a lecture by a Toltec Shaman. He stated that
> > our troubles begin upon the enactment of our first agreement. It
> > dawned upon me that he was correct; I was even able to remember the
> > essence of this first Bad Agreement, by which I had been bound ever
> > since. Upon this realization, I was able to understand that my island
> > of safety was an identity which was created as a refuge from the
> > wrath of others. I saw, in a flash, that as long as I carried this
> > identity, that I would be isolated, alone, miserable, confused, and
> > sauteed in resentment. And I realized that any identity would be
> > essentially similar, different by degree only.
> >
> > Upon this insight, I resolved to let go of identity.
> >
>
> Gene, we all need so much to know these gorey truths. To hear
> them from one respected :-), helps to show us that we are all/were
> "hopelessly" human.

Yes. My revelation is, that as 'human', we are ideally set up to live
in this universe. I do not mourn my 'humanity'. Nor do I assume (as
many seem to do) that there is 'illusion' apart from 'truth'.

"First there is a mountain;

Then, there is no mountain;

Then, there is."

> And then to see that it can be shed, usually stark bare-assed
> shed. In my case it's accompanied by tearing sounds and I
> don't know what other horrid noises. But I'm seeing the reason
> why and I'm not afraid.

(On the technical side, which may bore some readers: These tearing
sounds you mention, could be what is heard when compressed datafiles
are played at (what is for us) normal speed. Compressed memories
(repressed memories) have little or no 'spaces'; this is how they are
compressed/repressed. If one 'speeds up' personally, one can
experience these memories as real-time events (like a 'flashback').
Better, is to allow them to decompress. This is done by opening space
within oneself; this space is then transferred to the compressed
datafiles, thus decompressing them. At that point, they are
accessible as 'normal' memories. As you probably suspect, these
denied memories are usually quite disturbing, which is why they are
compressed and archived in the first place. Unfortunately, such
archived information can corrupt the area in which it is stored,
especially if it is in tissue peripheral to the brain, such as lung,
liver, or heart. Feel free to discuss this phenomenological,
technical-level stuff with me, if you wish.)

> I keep starting sentences like this one and stopping because I
> know the answer, but I wonder, so often, what is it that gets through
> to some and not to others, and why can't it be all?

Dave... it seems that people will not let go of behaviour which is
rewarded, no matter how they are also punished.

(In fact, this is the basis of 'behavioural psychology'; "An organism
will maintain a given behaviour as long as that behaviour is
rewarded". Punishment will not lead to the extinction of a behaviour,
as long as that behaviour is rewarded. So suffering in itself, is not
sufficient to dissuade from folly, as long as that folly is being
rewarded.)

What is the reward for the folly of seeking? Perhaps it is the
gratifying feeling of being a virtuous person, eg, a seeker of
'higher truths'. What is the reward for letting go of attachments?
Bliss.

Bliss... is a more powerful reward. The bliss experience is our guide
to behaving in accordance with our actual nature, rather than our
(social) conditioning.

Bliss is a 'Private Affair'; only you and "IT" are privy to what is
happening. Others... may intuit that something is going on, but as
you know, it is difficult if not impossible to convey to others, the
essence of what is a very personal experience. And the irony is, that
as we surrender to this personal experience, we lose that very
quality which connotes the 'personal'.

By following bliss, we are following our 'compass of pleasure'. In
accord with the 'truths' of behavioural psychology, we will keep
following it, no matter what the opposition (punishment) may be up
to. There comes a time, at which an individual must admit that they
are unable to communicate what is an extremely rarified experience;
there is the chance then, of letting go of experience altogether.
This stage is characterized by allowing oneself to be 'operated' by
(what seems to be, before the actual allowance) a 'higher power'. It
is the knowing that follows this allowance, which conveys the true
entitlement of 'I', in the universal-generic meaning of the word.

> Perhaps in your story, there are many things which seem to lead
> inevitably to your enlightenment.... but that's only because IT
> happened to you. So many others in your situation, which seems more
> than typical, would not have "arrived".
>
> We've seen demonstrated here in these last days that clearly, the
> image of any given event as perceived from within each one of us
> can be very distinct, and as eluded to in your story, this is
> itself a result of personal history and those original contracts.
>
> Often, knowing this is not enough. I know this void, but still fall
> prey to the colors. Some may never know the void, and that is my
> pain, although it is their bliss.
>
> Why should I worry, I could ask... and be free.
> Or revel in the discovery of another veil.
>
> Respectfully
> dave

Thank you, Dave. I apologize for the delay in reply. I have been
extremely busy, and away from my computer for periods of time.

As you know, I am free to speak of things in any way that I wish. I
am not here to jump over anyone's 'high bar of spiritual
qualification'. In fact, one of the reasons I am here, is to demolish
all such 'standards', by the act of relating my own insights in plain
words, as devoid of jargon as I am able.

Thank you for following along with my descriptions, and for giving me
the opportunity to go more deeply into this topic.

In regard to 'falling for the colors', as you mention above, it is
hard not to let go, when you are in love. The thing about falling, is
that we are habituated to grounding in what we identify as substance.
Perhaps the most solid substance, subjectively, is _identity_. In
usual modes of 'falling', one lands hard and painfully in identity,
regroups from the feelings of disillusionment, and eventually becomes
resigned and cynical. But if one can let go of identity... one
recognizes one's own grounding in emptiness, and is free to float.
This is when falling becomes pleasure. Letting go of the certainty of
identity, can reveal the infinitely 'hard, yet resilient'
diamond-clarity of emptiness itself. Living here is better than being
able to walk on water...


==Gene Poole==
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____


Tim:

The Moment is open. Any moment, any time. There is no time that is not open.

Now, this moment, let go of all of it. Release it. See the futility.
Give up. Be empty. The time is Now. Now is always available.

It will all come back, but it will come back changed.

Let go again. The utter futility of all of it. The endless churning of
concepts and mental pictures. ***STOP!*** Release it all.

There is no living life fully before death. In order to live fully, die
now. The time is always right to die. It is always Now.

Every moment is open. JUST STOP. STOP COLD. See the futility and release
it. Not little parts, but the whole f*cking thing. DROP IT ALL.

Take a look around. What the hell are you doing? This game, does it bring
joy, peace, bliss?

F*CKING STOP. Let it all end at this very moment. Immediately take notice
of the Whole. It is always available, Now. Cease. Desist.

The futility is overwhelming. REALIZE WHERE YOU ARE. BECOME AWARE. STOP.

Empty.

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