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The radical nondual perspective says that everything is the same. This
is an extraordinary statement to meditate upon. A person has to loosen
their psychological and emotional chains to begin to enter into that
meditation.

It is nothing like trying to imagine infinity. It is totally different.
It's a realization that everything is the same; that there is neither
existence nor the absence of existence. It may be the deepest knowledge
of which one is capable. It's deeper than the varieties of love, which
are deeper than mathematics.

We are here to know nondual awareness.

Gene Poole responds:

It seems that some chains are quite subtle. Factors of social propriety
continue; the differences are highlighted, and the 'sameness' which you
point to continues to be known only as difference.

It is difficult to 'break the ice'; it is difficult to invite to express
beyond personality, and it is the chains of personality which demand
compliance with world-dream customs. That is why the reference to the
reverant; that is why the comfortable contrast between the 'masters' and
the 'seekers'.

To refer to the words of the masters, is to have a comfortable place to
hide, to contemplate secretly why it is that one may have difficulty in
expressing Own, without mimicry and without arguing difference. It is
this puzzle, the disparity between known inner experience and the
expression of such, which this 'sacred playground' is. To appear, only
to defend or to correct, is to participate by default, to allude to
one's own,only via contrast with other, and to thus abrogate the
struggle to express.

Lacking that struggle, one continues to take refuge, depending upon the
muscle of master, but remaining thus weak. Bridging that gap between
'inner knowing' and effective expression is risk-taking behaviour.
Social propriety mitigates against taking that risk.

Tolerance and support, in knowing of that sameness, of which you speak,
is the helping hand.

---and Gene composed the following supportive poem:


One foot in each realm

("But there are no realms!")

Struggling to express

("Don't bother! It has all been said before!")

Taking this risk

("You should be ashamed!")

Loving even those voices

("Get a clue!")

Which threaten embarassment

("You are an idiot!")

I proceed

("And who do you think you are?")

To say this

("you have said nothing!")

Which highlights the essence

("Sorry, wrong essence!")

Of the evolution of my Being;

Overcoming fearful inhibition

Honestly stating

My own, owning, admitting...

How can I say it otherwise, in my own words?

Tolerance, welcoming, no punishment

Given or implied;

Social propriety is less

Than I am.

Relaxed deliberately, breathing

Attending and Intending,

I launch this missive

Into the sameness

Knowing the difference.


My own vision,

==Gene Poole==

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>What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

An enormous one. This list is a jnana practitioner's dream come true.

---Tim Gerchmez
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zero: to a person who has nondual perception, might not a
discussion about lint, its uses and abuses be just as "enlightening?"

...which prompted Sam:

What is this... stuff?

I know this question may sound quite dumb!
But... where in the hell does lint come from?
You know... that grayish fluff,
that wispy, gossamer stuff.

It accumulates in an unused room.
Fugitive from vacuum, mop and broom.
It hides 'neath sofa, chairs and bed.
Is it alive or is it dead?

Will someone tell me please,
is it the excreta of ants or fleas?
Is it the spawn of an unseen beast?
Is it the product of mold or yeast?

Don't ask me why I ponder this,
'tis just some 'enlightenment' that I miss.

( /\ )

sam

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> What is the meaning of life?

I am the meaning of life.

---Petros

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Give me truth... or give me death...
said the 'Human' with his last breath.

Truth*... obliged... as is Its* way,
his 'still small voice'... he heard say,
"Truth* is All... is to all revealed...
the moment... the lips are ever sealed."

So what's the hurry... may I ask?
Seeking Truth* is not our main task!
To live a full life... is why we are here.
To live life... Now... without regret or fear.

* = whatever word the reader chooses.

( /\ )

sam

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> What is the meaning of life?
>

Simply to find meaning.

---Tim Harris

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I don't consider that I'm "seeking" truth (as truth is there already and
cannot be sought), rather the desire is for ignorance to be lifted, for
truth to be *experienced* (after being known). A subtle difference, but
present nonetheless.

That said, define "living a full life?" Some would say that the purpose
we are here is to evolve, to know ourselves, even to stop the wheel of
death and rebirth and join again with Eternal Source. I would agree
with them. THIS is what I meant. This is what my "life's work" is, the
central task: to know who I am, and to do so requires knowing truth.
All else pales before this. Life is a stage, and "we" the players.
Forgetting this, we think we are the characters in the play, and are
thus enmired in ignorance. From such a viewpoint, "living a full life"
is impossible. Truth therefore *has* to come first.

---Tim Gerchmez

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How people express their truth will always vary. A diamond has
many facets which all reflect the same light in many different colors
according to their uniqueness. Ramana Maharshi never strayed away from
Arunachala after he got there. Ramakrishna Paramhansa stayed more or
less in the same place. His student Vivekananda preached his gospel even
here in the U.S. Mahatma Gandhi became an advocate for the poor and the
downtrodden and was a champion for the philosophy of nonviolence. My
teacher in 1942, (around the age of 20 and deeply disappointed in life
and wanting to know the truth eternal) told Gandhiji that he was leaving
the nonviolence movement to become a Jain monk and asked for parting
advice. The Mahatma understood the nature of that aspiration. He smiled
at the young man and said, "Always live in the light of truth." The
Jaina tradition, the religion of my teacher, focuses a great deal on
social service and the philosophy of nonviolence. The Jaina and Hindu
religions, although somewhat different are intertwined. Lord Krishna's
cousin was one of the Jain Tirthankaras. A list that I started, ACOWPAL
(Ahimsa Council of World Peace and Love) is struggling to survive and
grow. I would like to invite you all to join, especially if you are
interested in nonviolence and its practical manifestations. The list is
not very active. I am not that interested in it being active in terms of
frequency of posts. But it would be nice to have a presence there of
people interested in exploring the notion of Ahimsa. Thanks. Love you
all.........
Click below to join ..................................Harsha
<http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/ACOWPAL>

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>If someone asked you what it is to know the nondual perspective, what
>would you say?


being what is eternal.
being that which supports the truth of who i am.

---zero

and Tim Gerchmez responded as follows:

To know the nondual perspective is to have experienced, even "briefly,"
the Self (Atman) or Ultimate Reality (Brahman) underlying the entirety
of creation.

Of course, this is not "ultimate knowledge," just a tiny little taste.
But once something is tasted, that flavor is known.


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>What practice do you have?

Many. Mostly unification of desire into one: a burning desire for truth
at all costs, even death.

---Tim Gerchmez


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"Free to Be"

To be something you're not;
is that really so hot?
Be just what you ARE,
and you will go far.
Look deep into yourself,
and there you will see...
That what lies inside,
is ecstatically free.

A divided mind,
will fall far behind;
"I don't want to be here"
always generates fear.
"I would rather be there"
Get it out of your hair!

Accept where you are,
look dispassionately;
and you'll find the best way,
is to KNOW and to BE.

Don't polarize mind,
like a magnet, my friend;
To accept where you're at,
is to be able to bend;
like a reed in life's winds,
and at last you will see;
that the reed, not the rock;
is the life that is Free.

---Tim Gerchmez

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>Is it possible to see yourself as you are?

not right now.
there is nothing to see.
i am the dream, not the dreamer.

---zero

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>Is this, here and now, I AM?
>
what this?
there is only I AM.

---zero

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>What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

i find it to be communion. i like to laugh. i like to wonder.
all are my own true self, and i enjoy watching the movie.
pass the popcorn.

---zero

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work is unnecessary. the self is already. most feel that "it can't be
that simple" and feel that many mechanations are necessary. there is
nothing wrong with yoga, prayer, reading, & etc. but finding the self
is not work at all. it is stopping working. in the story of king
janaka and ashtavakra, janaka is at the river repeating his mantra, over
and over. "I AM THAT!" his guru ashtavakra come along on the other
bank and starts shouting, "THIS IS MY WATER BOWL." This disturbs
janaka in his practice, so he shouts, "Who says that's not your water
bowl?" Ashtavakra shouts back, "Who says you are not that?"

---zero

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> Is it possible to see yourself as you are?

The seer is sight itself.

> Why are you present?

Good question: from one of the nondual perspectives, that boils down
(sorry
Gene) to "Why is the Self present"?


>From where does the ego arise?

From the difference between experience and the memory of that experience
(not to be elaborated).


> What impact does this list community have on your daily life?

It's a good excuse to leave the house in a mess.

---questions 'answered' by jb
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>Is it possible to see yourself as you are?


This was my favorite question.

I can spend hours and hours on this one.

It keeps moving 'me' around and around
and around. I could write and write
about where this question has taken me....

but instead I'll simply say...from
where I've been with it so far, "No".

---Melody
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>If someone asked you what it is to know the nondual perspective, what
>would you say?


This actually just happened to me this morning, I was asked to explain
"it"... and after listening at length to the other person's reasoning
and insistence that reality really is dualistic, its a world made up of
opposites .. I finally said, "Reality is neutral ... until we make it
dual." At least they paused to stop and think about that.

---Glo

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