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11/18/01 Sunday

****************

JACK

Suggestibility?

On the subject of psychotropic "medicine", a subject mentioned
by mark. Do any drugs really work? Psychotropic drugs usually
are specifically given to treat various forms of mental illness with
in the psyche.

In the 60's there was an experiment done by Drs. Linton and
Langs who told test subjects they were going to participate in a
study in the effects of LSD, but then they gave them a placebo
instead.

Nonetheless, half an hour after taking the placebo, the subjects
began to experience the classic symptoms of the actual drug,
loss of control, supposed insight into the meaning of existence
and so on. These `placebo trips' lasted several hours.

Does caffeine keep you awake at night?

Research has shown that even an injection of caffeine won't
keep caffeine sensitive individuals awake if they believe they are
receiving a sedative.

Suggestibility is a fascinating idea.. leading into a variety of
personal creations experienced by most as, as something
separate from their creator.

S.Freud once wrote to Wilhelm Reich remarking about `the little
Austrian man':

"Many people here wondered how in a Midsummer's Dream
Shakespeare could make a lady fall in love with a donkey. And
now just think of it, a nation of 65 million has done the same
thing".

It would appear of recent times we now have the new wave of
western young spiritual teachers in most their convincing tones,
suggesting to the easily suggestible, that there's no `I' here. The
easily suggestible subjects enter a perfect hypnotic trance state
nor believing and experiencing there is no `i'

In fact you don't even need to go this far. If you repeat for a good
20 minutes in a very convincing tone to yourself `there is no `I',
you will place yourself in a trance state of believing and
experiencing there is no `I'.

Now what we've got is the unconscious patterns and projections
having a field day in acting out and projecting any form of
neurosis justified under the banner that there's no `I' doing
anything.

The German chancellor in the 40's was often heard to be saying
to close confidantes in his hideaway in southern Germany "all
that's taking place here is providence, there is no individual `i'
here doing anything".

I to make matters worse Karl Pribram and David Bohm, the
protégé of Einstein, suggest very convincingly that we're all
existing in a holographic model.

Might I feel that the emotional-body held experiences of
samadhi, heaven, enlightenment, no- mind, awakening,
feelings of at.one.ness,(mirror images of the opposites) are
introjected projections of the unconscious into hologramlike
projected body imagery.

The great non-dualist Ramana Maharshi was heard to say...

Owning to the `belief' " I am the body, the separate objects are
seen as if lying outside. Know that they are all within yourself.

I guess then you don't have to be a Karl Pribram, a David
Bohm, nor Obi-wan Kenobi to figure out that if we're not the body,
then the body must also be in myself, along with everything else,
including the image and its projected or introjected opposite(s).

Carl Jung speaks of `enantiodromania' - the mirror image of the
opposites. He `believed' we humans are on the sacred quest to
know `der wirklichkeit' to realise that `Ich Bin Das'... `I am that'

The `seen' just might be a holographic universe. Those seen
within the seen, including the subjective `seer' seeing others are
really all part of the same projected manifestation.

jack

BOBBY G.

Hi Jack;

> Nonetheless, half an hour after taking the placebo, the subjects
> began to experience the classic symptoms of the actual drug,
> loss of control, supposed insight into the meaning of existence
> and so on. These `placebo trips' lasted several hours.

I have taken "trips" on bogus acid myself in the 60's and noticed
after about an hour and a half that I would not get off. The effects
of LSD on normally ego tripping people is not that easily mistaken.

[...]>
> Suggestibility is a fascinating idea.. leading into a variety of
> personal creations experienced by most as, as something
> separate from their creator.

I agree. The basis of hypnosis, suggestibility, is the same as
learning. If you believe you can't learn something you can't, and
vice versa. It is impossible to "learn" something that disagrees
with something you already believe is true. You must be willing to
doubt the old to see the new.

[...]
> I to make matters worse Karl Pribram and David Bohm, the
> protégé of Einstein, suggest very convincingly that we're all
> existing in a holographic model.
>
> Might I feel that the emotional-body held experiences of
> samadhi, heaven, enlightenment, no- mind, awakening,
> feelings of at.one.ness,(mirror images of the opposites) are
> introjected projections of the unconscious into hologramlike
> projected body imagery.

The "I am" is an illusion.
Names and forms projected on the mind forming a rational whole is an
illusion. When this illusion disappears in deep sleep everything
remains the same escept the illusion is no longer being created.

The rational mind posits an objective universe that continues to
exist while the body sleeps but that universe is like the snake in
the example of illusion wherein the rope is mistaken for a snake.

If you see a snake that turns out to be a rope you reacted just as if
the snake were real. For all practical or "objective" purposes it
was real just as the "I am" and the world is real.
The No fear, no boundaries state of Samadhi is veiled by the
projection you describe.

[...]
> The `seen' just might be a holographic universe. Those seen
> within the seen, including the subjective `seer' seeing others are
> really all part of the same projected manifestation.

Duality is the idea of the seer seeing itself. This posits two
things existing simultaneously, one seeing the other. Although this
seems to be the case, Reason tells us this is impossible. Once that
idea is released or doubted the truth may dawn.

I offer this as my personal explanation of the issues you brought.
I am not clear on whether or not you are supportive of non-dualism.

Yours truly
Bobby G.




ED

When the inner smile appears, one is at the top of the mountain

radiating unconditional love. http://members.tripod.com/~chippit/inner_smile.html


JACK

The only thing that I have ever understood that reaches the top of
any mountain is the ego.

Ego eternally presumes it is self-enlightened. It invents
mountains then identifies itself as a mountain climber. It's also
discovered ways to fall off mountains.

Some have said that mountains, mountain climbing, the
mountain climber, the idea of attaining and falling, are all in you.
Is that what you mean by a mountain smile?



ED

> Is that what you mean by a mountain smile?

No, not really. It becomes clear when the ego is doing its
survival work and the Inner Smile appears.
<s>


ANDREW


imagine!
Differentiating, something makes itself out of nothing
yet all the while remains no more or less than nothing.

Undisclosed remains undisclosed, what is undisclosed?

andrew

MARK

yeah, is the word "undisclosed" a double-negative or a triple-negative?
I've heard of redundant phrases, but redundant words? sheesh

Love, Mark
oh, I see. I've been separating the syllables incorrectly. I read it
as un-dis-closed, but it's clearly un-disc-losed, meaning that CD that
I've been looking for for ages finally showed up. Thanks.

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