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11/13/01 Tuesday


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ANDREW

What kind of theology has god willing your slavery?
In thinking to serve the divine there is the assumption
that you and the divine are separate entities.
Even seeing it this way, the relationship
with god is not one of slavery; you
are god's beloved child, god is
devoted to you as you are to god.
It's god's will that you be free.

MATTHEW

> What kind of theology has god willing your slavery?

.......its not that god wills anything one way or the other, as the
will of god is simply the intelligent, evolutionary movement of all
creation. But yes the language is dualistic, theistic.

> In thinking to serve the divine there is the assumption
> that you and the divine are separate entities.

.........to serve the divine is to be in alignment with that
movement.As we usually are, living the illusion of separation, there
can be no such alignment. Awakening, is taking resposibility for,
living as, already present enlightenment. And that is slavery not
freedom. If most people really saw what it meant to wake up, they
would run away from it as fast as possible.
......matthew

ANDREW

Run where? There's nothing you can do to prevent it.
Everybody dies. One time only. It isn't slavery because the slave is dead. It is
freedom because the slave is dead.

JERRY

Hi Ron,

I've done a little wookworking and know what you mean.

The first thing that comes to mind is that the feeling is one of being included
in nature.

I imagine that applies to any kind of 'working with the hands', especially if
most of one's time is removed from nature.



SUSAN

Hello good people,

I am writing a lecture/presentation to give to groups in my area as a
marketing tool to build my hypnotherapy practice and I was wondering
if I could have some input from all you gentle and insightful people.

It is called:

Feeling Safe in an Unsafe World: Comforting Your Child in Times of
Terror

I am also creating one for the adults called:

Feeling Safe in an Unsafe World: Comforting Yourself in Times of
Terror

I have a small problem in that I have no children nor do I have much
contact with them.

If those of you who have children or have ever been children can
share how your parents comforted you in frightening situations I
would deeply appreciate it. Also if you have any techniques that you
have used for reducing anxiety that would easily transfer to the
general populace that would be wonderful too.

With gratitude,
Susan

BOBBY

Child comfort

I was a single parent from the time my children were 2 and 4. Two
boys now 27 and 25. I never had a job during that time so I was a
hands-on Dad. It was and is a privilege.

I did artwork for literally hundreds of families with small
children. They are my favorite people to draw.

Comforting a child has directly to do with the parents. Some are
permissive and some restrictive.

The biggest problem I believe, about being a child is learning how to
stop being here now. That is the objective every "well adjusted"
child must learn. They must learn to be somebody doing something or
thinking something. Then as non-dualists we have to unlearn it.
Does anyone believe we would not have to unlearn it if we had not
learned it?

The child must believe s/he is here as an individual reacting to
others. This is drilled into a child.

If it had not been drilled into the child then there would be no-one
to have night sweats and feel unsafe and no need for people to know
how to make "their" "child" feel safe. The youngun would only feel
unsafe in the presence of immanent danger.

If we must teach them to be "people" then we owe at least one thing
to them. Never let a child feel invisible. If they send out a
message respond to it. Even just a twitch of the eyebrow and eye
contact with a smile is enough. They will catch it.

My pet peeve with parents is when they make the child beg to be
noticed. When my boys wanted my attention they knew that one "Dad"
or a tug on the pants leg was sufficient. I always turned to them
within a few seconds and they knew I would.

Children feel like they are not there more than adults. They just
haven't got it fully yet. If you let them feel invisible, they worry
about being the only one that is not here at all. How frightening is
that? Can you do it?

I believe that is the way to make a child feel safe, always respond.

Yours truly
Bobby G.

MARK O.

Hi Susan,

I didn't respond to your post right away because I do not have children,
but after seeing some of the responses, I'm inclined to suggest that a
useful thing to do to provide comfort to children and to other living
things is to communicate with them in a way that one listens at least as
much as one talks. I've been listening awhile to folks in academia
theorize about how to teach college students, while it seems to me that
the one thing they are not doing is paying attention to the students.
My approach to teaching is to ask the students what they know and
understand so I know where my help is needed, and then to ask them for
continual guidance as I apply that help. That approach didn't help me
obtain grant money, so I no longer teach. Oh well. I may have little to
contribute to your talk because I think there are no prescriptions.
Each situation is unique and requires a new approach based on the
situation at hand. Nonetheless, a good rule of thumb appears to be to
pay attention to your audience.

Well, enjoy your presentation.

Love, Mark


GREG

I felt for you when you said:

>My approach to teaching is to ask the students what they know and
>understand so I know where my help is needed, and then to ask them for
>continual guidance as I apply that help. That approach didn't help me
>obtain grant money, so I no longer teach. Oh well. I may have little to

I had the pleasure of meeting you


, and can imagine that you would teach with patience, compassion, and
humor, inspiring the students to learn the subject matter.

At the University of Rochester, they are very tough in the tenure-decision
process. It has partly to do with the school's academic inferiority
complex (lots of Ivy League wannabees there). During my time at Rochester,
1979-91, there were several notable cases of great teachers not getting
tenure. In the humanities especially. Some of the most popular, inspiring
and beloved teachers happened not to publish enough to get tenure. The
most memorable case was a blind teacher who taught Shakespeare, and helped
out with the drama department. It's tough to make Shakespeare appealing to
modern kids, but he did it. The kids loved him, and inherited his love of
Shakespeare. But he didn't publish enough. When the students found out he
had to leave the University, they demonstrated, picketed, etc. As you
might expect, it had absolutely no effect, and the school lost him, as well
as some other great teachers.

On the other hand there were plenty of dweeby profs there who were
incomprehensible to the students. But they could crank out research papers
and the required book, so made tenure. And you get to keep tenure as long
as you're not found guilty of murder...

Your school's loss is NDS's gain! I'm glad you're here. Your warmth and
good writing make me smile whenever I read your posts!

Love,

--Greg


MELODY

An interesting read is Osho's book "Glimpses of a Golden
Childhood". Osho tells of being raised by a grandmother
who was quite 'abiding'. She never once said "no" to
Osho, and forbid anyone else to.

He had a fulltime 'body guard' whose job was
to follow him around. His instructions were to
not interfere with Osho's movements and actions
in anyway......only to intervene if Osho's life was
at risk, or to bring him home if his body needed
mending.

I remember a story he told of the time his grandfather's
guru, a jaina monk, came to visit. His grandfather was
scared to death of what Osho would say in his presence,
and for the first time ever, asked Osho to "keep quiet"
in his presense. His grandmother responded, "Nonsense!
Let the boy do as he will". And Osho, at the age of 5,
did. Within minutes of the monk's arrival his grandfather was
holding his head in shame while his grandmother was laughing with
delight. Before the visit was over, the 'guru' had become
so angry he was spitting nails.....his 'peace' totally undone
by the questions of a 5 year old who had not yet been
taught to fear.


MARK H.

Blue Dove says they have Krishna Menon's books Atma Darshan and Atma
Nirvritti in stock: $9 each plus shipping. I haven't received them yet, but
I ordered them on line yesterday and got a confirmation e-mail today. They
have some other books by him also. Go to www.bluedove.org and click on
Light of Grace Books to see the catalog.

I am crossing my fingers on this, because last time I tried to order I was
told the publisher was out of stock. Blue Dove is just distributing these
books for a small publisher who publishes small runs of these books
infrequently because of lack of funds, lack of demand, or both. Maybe if we
flood them with orders it will encourage them to crank up their press.

Atmananda (Krishna Menon) was a sage from South India who passed away in
1958. Jean Klein visited him a few times after his own realization.
Atmananda was not his guru, but Jean appears to have been very influenced by
his teaching style. Jean said in an interview in Transmission of the Flame:
"I saw Krishna Menon four or five times later on, and found him highly able
in *vidya vritti*, the formulation of what cannot be formulated.
Absolutely a beautiful being."


SUSAN

There was an opportunity to explore safety and security issues on
another list today where I did not post my request for input. One of
the things I posted in response to that little thread was this quote
from Helen Keller, the author who was born and lived her life blind
and deaf.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Security is mostly a superstition.
It does not exist in nature,
nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run
than outright exposure.
Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
To keep our faces toward change and
behave like free spirits
in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.

by Helen Keller
Let Us Have Faith (1940)

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