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Sunday, October 21


RON PERRYMORE

The movement or urge to abide a
contracted state,
(identity), only occasionally seems
quick enough.
My intention is to abide, stay with, and
just be
that contracted movement of identity,
but it seems
the urge arrives a beat too late... just
a bit too
late to completely process that movement
to
spasmodically contract away from
infinite space.
However when I am quick enough to see
and process
through contraction, infinite space returns potent
with a 'nowness'.

Within 'now' there is an endless recapitulation
going on, identity whispers from memorys stream of
vows taken more than a thousand years ago. Vows of
poverty, silence, chastity and obediance. Priestly
vows taken by a youth in love with the mystery of
the church and with the possibility of Christs love
for him. He would later be tortured and killed by
the inquisition and was forced to vow to never
again speak the truth of awakening as a catholic
priest or even as an ordinary man...those vows have
been recinded but the genetic stamping of horrible
pain still seems a background murmur at times.

The noise of un-remembered pain and the outrage of
betrayal is present as a neurotic need rather than
a move towards relationship and love. This core
issue at last is being re-cognized.

Love to all (even me), Ron
______________________________________________________________________

JAN SULTAN

DUALITY AND NONDUALITY

Most non-dualists want to throw out duality
completely. This they soon find is impossible.

Say you have a piece of gold and a piece of copper.
On the surface they are very different, have
different values to human beings, etc. A scientist
who has seen both on the sub-atomic level will tell
you that both are the same underneath. However,
there is no way he will exchange the gold for the
copper.

In the same way, the Reality is non-dual. However
this non-dual reality has arranged itself in
different patterns to form many dual items. [Atoms
arranged differently form different elements with
entirely different properties]. If a human has
experienced non-duality and knows for certain the
non-dual nature of everything surely you do not
expect him to act different from the scientist
above?

Even Ramana still had ties with his mother and
Nisargadatta with his family. The way some listers
attack all dualistic pointers is as if they have no
duality in themselves! Non-duality and duality are
two sides of the same coin. There is no way you can
get rid of one. In other words I can see the
non-dual Reality underneath yet talk in dualistic
ways. I can say "God is all" and "I love God" at
the same time.

_________________________________________________________________

GENE POOLE

URLs:

Concerning the interpretation of Islamic law:

<http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/answer/a4990efm.htm>

Afghanistan Online:

<http://www.afghan-web.com/>

Islamic Gateway:

<http://www.ummah.com/>

_________________________________________________________________________

GENE POOLE

Hi Susan,

You asked "what is a diehold"?

That is a fair question. As I wrote my article, I
assumed that I would be able to give a weblink to
the primary page which explains all this. But, the
link now leads only to an empty directory.

Instead, go to this link:

<http://www.wolfe.net/~archive/ch1.html>

This is the first chapter of the book 'Reality
Revealed' by Doug Vogt.

To proceed with reading the book online, you must
manually change the URL by replacing the chapter
number in your browser location window like this,
to go to chapter 2:

<http://www.wolfe.net/~archive/ch2.html>

Just keep on manually changing the chapter number
and you can read or download the entire book, if it
is all there. (If you 'save as... source' to a
specific folder on your local disk, you will have
the whole book to read at your leisure.)

Here is a link to a discussion of the diehold on a
list allied to NDS:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/onsriyantra/message/19>

Here are some other links which discuss the
diehold:

Highly technical:

<http://hometown.aol.com/MetPhys/78douglasvogt.html>

<http://hometown.aol.com/MetPhys/7magnetism.html>

The term 'diehold' seems to have been coined to
describe 'a place (like the hold of a ship) which
holds the forms, templates, or 'dies' (a
metalworking term) which pattern reality itself.

This would necessarily mean that the diehold is
'outside of reality', and that it 'transmits the
information of existence' which organizes (gives
rise to) 'all of what is'.

Perhaps you have heard the phrase 'the die is cast'
or 'the die has been cast'. This has nothing to do
with gambling or dice; instead, it refers to a mold
(die) which has been cast (made).

Once the mold is made, everything which comes from
it, will have the shape of the mold. 'The die is
cast' thus states that a pattern has been laid
down, and thus subsequent events will conform to
the pattern. This phrase lends itself to
assumptions about the future being predictable,
once patterns are seen in the present.

We can notice patterns in the present, and we are
fond of speculating about origins. Plato put forth
a concept of a place or dimension where the
'original forms and essences' are located, and he
stated that this place of origins was beyond direct
human touch, IE, 'out of reality' as is the
diehold.

One of the greatest obsessions of modern science it
to 'reverse-engineer' the universe, to be able to
put hands on the most elementary controls of
existence. Our experiments with atomic bombs and
nuclear energy reflect this deep drive to uncover
'the philosopher's stone', or the key to
everything.

The leveling effect of 'nondual realization' and
'nondual studies' allows the space and time for the
observer to come to realize that the only way to
gain control of the universe, is to be outside of
it.*

We can gain control of the world-dream by being
outside of it; we can gain control of identity by
being outside of it. We can relax and abide the
flux of phenomena, to eventually 'see' all of this.

At some point along the way, it becomes apparent
that the drive to 'understand' emanates from
suffering. Understanding in-service-of 'control of
the universe' seems to be an understandable, if
actually unworkable, motive in response to the
realization of mortality and vulnerability. The
mortal vision of death is an attempt to peer
closely at what cannot be seen, because it (death)
is 'outside of this universe' in the realm of the
diehold.

The drive to understand is similar to the impulse
which drives the salmon to to return to the place
of its origin. In a sense, the diehold is the
'spawning ground' of existence. But realize that
peering intently at nothing, with the intent to
escape death, is to put off the experience of
smelling the roses of existence. We are showered
with blessings beyond imagining, yet shrug them off
in our obsession with death and mortality. We have
not only clues, but we ourselves as awareness, are
the answer we seek.

It is the troublesome seeking of a vantage point
'outside', which blinds us to our true position. We
seek 'objectivity' and seek to overcome frivolity
and volatile memory, for purposes which arise
wholly from suffering. Our lifestyles are an
ongoing confession of suffering, overlayed with a
thin coating of glossy and unjustified confidence.
Why the disparity between what is and what we
assume 'should be'?

Suffering breeds idealism; idealism is compensation
for the animal fear of death. Humans who experience
the connection I describe in my previous posting,
see very clearly that human concerns are generally
a frantic expression of lostness and disconnect.
And this disconnect is facilitated by the attempt
to get beyond death, to escape/migrate/spawn to the
diehold, which exists ourside of this universe, and
is otherwise known as the eternal Heaven afterlife.

On the other hand, to simply abide 'in the here and
now' will reveal reality as no book is capable of.
Our door is being consistently 'knocked on', but
our frantic poundings on our own side of the door
make it impossible to hear the gentle request for
entry which is emanating from 'the other side'.

We are literally awash in communications of
'truth', yet persist in attempts to decode what we
assume has been hidden in the folds of time and
space and energy and matter. 'Water, water
everywhere and not a drop to drink'. To identity,
reality tastes like salt-water; but for the
realizer, it is the purest spring

Gene Poole

(* Note: I am already 'coming from outside of it'.)

SUSAN

The light of recognition goes warm... :)

I have not gone to the links yet but I will tell
you that without reading what has been written I
think we are in the same ball park.

You write: The term 'diehold' seems to have been
coined to describe 'a place > (like the hold of a
ship) which holds the forms, templates, or 'dies' >
(a metalworking term) which pattern reality
itself.> This would necessarily mean that the
diehold is 'outside of reality', > and that it
'transmits the information of existence' which
organizes > (gives rise to) 'all of what is'.

I must say up front that I am *not* a
techno-engineering babe. I am of the kinesthetic,
mystic experience, visonary sub species. I leave
the explaining how it works to the techo mages.

When I first 'woke up' about ten years ago, I began
to have a series of 'downloading' or 'chunking'
experiences that still happen to this day. I would
be 'in state' and feel, hear info being downloaded
into me at an almost instantaneous rate. ( I have
found this is a common experience among some of my
awake female friends.) I wouldn't hear the info per
se but I could hear the sound as the object volume
size was chunked into me. Later, I would begin to
have epiphanies which I think were experiences of
understanding and bringing to surface awareness
this info.

One day about 5 or 6 years ago, I was sitting on my
couch staring out the picture window, daydreaming.
(one of my favorite activities) Out of the blue, as
these things are apt to happen, I had an epiphany.
This epiphany was this: I am an organizing field of
consciousness and also the Universal Field of
Consciousness. I am It and part of it. As a
creatrix I call together a template with which to
'extrude' universal 'stuff' or energy. This causes
the process of manifestion from immaterial to
material. The successful manifestation of what I
want to create depends on my clarity of intent and
the condition of the 'boundary' between I and i.
From the I standpoint looking towards i there is no
boundary. From the i standpoint looking towards I,
the boundary lately is looking like a leaky
permeable membrane. ( good news for me)

We can also look at this as creating patterns of
the future but I am reserving the right as an I
outside of reality to change the patterns that do
not serve me. I may be just stroking the little i
here...but, I think I am in the ball park with
you...I am just looking at the microscopic view
rather than the macroscopic.

____________________________________________________________________

SHANKAR (from the I Am list)

Translation of Lines 1 and 2 of 'Five Precious Gems
(in praise) of the Feet of Sri Ramana'

A new-born child functions with its memory. Of the
tendencies inherited from the past births. This is
so upto its 7th year, usually. Then, its reason
becomes functional. Upto, its 14th year, usually.
During these 14 years, its conscious mind gets
formed. From the group-mind of the society into
which the child is born.

From its parents, first. From its relatives, next.
Later, from its friends and its associates. Much
later, even from the radio and television sets.
This conscious mind gets built upon the foundation
of subconscious mind. Sideways as a projection from
it. Or, as an external accretion upon it.

From 14th year onwards, the Will gets formed,
usually. From now on, the boy or girl can use the
affirmation. Spiritual affirmations. In its
conscious mind. This affirmation will now work in
the reverse direction. On the subconscious mind. If
done, before sleep. Then, transport the
consciousness straight upwards into the
superconscious. After sleep. Instead of getting
locked down in the subconscious. As it happens
normally, when one sleeps without using affirmation
or other types of spiritual practices like chanting
the Names of God, etc. Then, from there, will work
on the impressions in the subconscious. Unawares.
Then, create dreams. Just before waking up. In
those dreams, the subconscious impressions will get
resolved.

Now, we proceed to the translation of the main text
'Sri Ramana Padha Pancharathnam'. By Sri Siva
Prakasam Pillai.

Long Live the Feet of the True One (Sri Ramana) !,
who totally cast aside (the non-self of ego and its
offshoot of mind and the world), having perceived
the Truth (of the Self). (Line 1)

Long Live! the Feet of the Existent One (Sri
Ramana) !, who imparts 'as it (the way) abides',
the way of 'escaping from bondage (of
body-consciousness) and living (as the Self)'.
(Line 2)

________________________________________________________________________________\
_

KHEYALA

Dear Friends, Something mysterious has happened! I
am no longer able to read any letters. It seems
that the internet wave that descended on me has
crested and now has passed. It kind of reminds me
of what happened a couple of years ago when I found
myself joyfully giving away nearly all of my
previously-cherished spiritual books, tapes, music,
etc. Now I am on "no mail" and have no idea for how
long. All I know is that it feels really right and
there is an excited tickle in my chest about what's
coming next, and even about the space there if
nothing comes next! To those with whom I have met
in the heart (either knowingly or not) I would be
so happy to nourish a friendship via private
e-mails, messages, or even a chatroom. Here is my
address: kheyala@neteze.com It should be no
surprise to you :) that you all have my love,
TOTALLY, and that I wish everyone sweet rest in the
ordinary, as well as the extraordinary, revelation
of This that is Here, that we Are, this
moment.....and this one.....and this one...

LOVE!

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