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10/8/01 Monday

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Dan Berkow (now going by db)

> ..............aint no speculation about it. Unless
> that split is
> resolved, anything that happens is just changes
> within the dream.
> Resolving that split is waking up from the dream.

The resolution can't be waking up from
the dream, because that implies
a someone who exists apart from the dream,
to be in a state other than dream.

Any state, including waking up, is "dream"
in the sense of "a way of being aware" ...

The dream and the dreamer are the same "stuff"
the unsplit reality that is neither mind,
nor body, nor something else other than
mind/body.

So, waking up being another version of "dream",
there is only *this* -- right now ...

*This* is all there is, ever was, ever will be.

As a dream, it is dreaming itself.
As not-a-dream, it is not giving itself form.
Form or formless: *this* ...

-- Dan



JOYCE SHORT
Dzogchen

Heres a bit from the Trekcho teaching for discussion:

"In Dzogchen, we do not resort to separate remedies for separate mental
afflicitions, because the only issue here is the presence or absence of
recognition. And if there is recognition, then the mental affictions are seen
as being the expression of the nature, and therefore do not themselves pose a
problem. Hence this is called the "application of one remedy which liberates
everything".

When we are distracted from the state of the recognition of innate wisdom, then
we will not recognize thoughts as being the uprising of innate wisdom, we will
not see them as such because we are no longer recognizing the innate wisdom.

Therefore when we are distracted from this recognition, when we become lost in
ordinary delusion, beweilderment or confusion, thoughts become "indendendent".
"Independent" here means "unrecognized'. At that point it appears to us as
though thoughts have solidity, have an independent existence. And once you are
without this recognition of thoughts as being merely the uprising of the innate
wisdom, then thoughts bind us to samsara and actually become the cause of
suffering.

Thus, in the absence of recognition, our mind and Dharma have temporaily
separated and we are no longer keeping company with innate wisdom. At this
point, we are really no different from anyone else. If we fall from
recognition back into ordinary confusion, then we accumulate karma just like
everyone else. ***At all times and in all circumstances,*** a practitioner of
Dzogchen must never depart from this natural settling into recognition that we
refer to as non-meditation".

Peace,
Joyce



db
Re: Why Nirguna Has Already Lost the War

Namaste,
>
> There is only nirguna but it is real enough whilst
> we are in it and
> practise diversion....ONS....Tony.

Hey, Tony --

Sure ...
Yet who could possibly appear
within Nirguna as a being
with qualities, for whom it is
real enough while in it?

Do you see what I'm saying here?

If, for you, Nirguna is what is,
from whence could come a being
with qualities?

If there can be, for you, a being
with qualities for whom it (separation) is
real while in it, then, for you,
there is no Nirguna-reality, it's
only an idea, another idea occurring
within what you're calling "diversion"
and I would call "the sense of separation
as real" ...

If it's not just an idea to be used
to make a discussion interesting, then
for you, it (Nirguna) is real (in the
sense of being all), and by being real
for you, it's the only reality there
is, or ever could be... So, for you,
there is no other, and no qualities to
you or for you or for others apart from
you, in groups, or as individuals.

Hmm?

Namaste,
Dan



ERIC BLACKSTEAD
The Vndist Sadhana of Dodge'em


Glo & Friends,

Glo writes of Tony: "This dodge'em routine is getting old."

GETTING OLD??? I persist in believing, Glo, that you're the most
patient and well balanced contributor to this satsangh, nonpareil.
For all the rest of us Tony's "dodge'em routine" is antidiluvian Maya
itself. When Nirguna decided to flash forth("Sphuratta")in her/his
full Saguna Drag, at that exact timeless Me-ment Tony began unreeling
his primordial Nirguna argument, beginning the otherwise
beginningless proof that the Nirguna is the Saguna, etc...

Maya to some. Tony to us.

It's even been revealed to me in formless meditation that just as the
Witness position can be taken vis-a-vis Maya in order to re-discover
the original nondual reality, one can take the Witness position in
regards to Tony's endless Nirguna argument. Holding to a position of
noninvolvment one attempts to bring oneself back to the original Self
position of Non-Annoyance. If and When this is finally achieved, one
finds that one was never in fact born, and everything including the
self is but an illusion and never existed (and was never Annoyed). Of
course, this sadhana, (of achieving the Self through Non Annoyance
with Tony's Nirguna Natterings) has so far failed to achieve
fulfillment in anyone's individual practice, and we are continually
tempted, as Glo shows us once again, to fall back into the position
of relative or Saguna Annoyance, occasionally even going so far as to
be mindlessly sucked back into the illusion of an answer, quip, or
retort in order to relieve the endless samsaric pressure of Vndist
Nirguna Dodge'em.

In actual fact, this is a sadhana that all of us on this list are
performing in each moment, but only those who have realized the Self
know it, and those who know, not surprisingly, don't say.

Until then, we practice the no-mind of Non-Annoyance in calm abidance
until the Dodge'em of Saguna reveals itself as ever present No-
Dodge'em of Nirguna.

yours in the bonds,
eric




GENE DEFENDS HIS CONTROVERSIAL REVELATION OF HQ

> > > (See attached file. If you are unable to receive attachments,
> > > see the picture in the 'Files' section of the NDS webpage on
> > Yahoo!.)
> >
> > A striking impression. Most notable for the fact that it is empty.

Everything is empty, John.

On the other hand, the crew of moderators is actually in place. Why cannot they be seen?

> > As someone who is passingly conversant with Quality Assurance I might
> > suggest staggering the 'hookah breaks' to create a more professional
> > impression. [No need to directly face the camera].

I leave the hookah to the caterpiller, may he progress to butterfly, or moth, as the larval case may be.

> > Is this file footage of TMI? Having hailed from PA I couldn't resist.

No, it is actually the real/secret NDS moderation control center, ready in fact to switch from only NDS works, to actual
world-domination/control/salvation type of work. Any day now...

> > Warm regards,
> > John

Jerry, you wrote:

> It is highly irregular that NDS Moderation Headquarters is shown to the
> public. As opposed to just regular irregular. Regular irregular is okay. I
> have lots of underwear that is regular irregular. I've tried wearing the
> highly irregular underwear but I don't have three legs and two dicks.

Any underwear, or even no underwear, is OK. What is not OK is underaware; please avoid that.

>In any case, we now need new headquarters. And do you think this time we get a
> headquarters that doesn't share with the Buffy The Vampire Role Playing list?
>
> jerry

Well, it is harmless to show the HQ console area, but the secret location has not been revealed. But even if it were,
patented NDS multiPhasic Sematic Shielding would protect it from any sort of attack, be it from disgruntled postal
workers, or hostile space-aliens, or even an attack by rabid HotMail admin staffers.

And then there is the secret NDS High Earth-Orbit NonDual Observation Satellite. Our super-secret UltraStealth
Cloaking Device makes it invisible to all detection instruments. It is able to determine topicality from a range of over
200km, and selectively delete _trolls_ using advanced PacketWhacker technology, leaving the surrounding area on
the hard disk drive untouched.

Glad you asked!

==Gene Poole==

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