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Friday, August 31


DAVE OSHANA

I am writing an article "awakening vs
enlightenment". Does anyone feel that these two
terms are/not clearly distinguished in advaita
circles?

TONY O'CLERY

Namaste All,

I like the sanskrit moksha........moha
kshya......delusion destroyed. Inferring that
duality is an illusion that's all.

An awakening can mean, intellectually realising
non-duality without true realisation or
moksha.......ONS....Tony.

JODY

The intellectual realization of nonduality does not
exist except in the heads of those infected with
NonDualThink™ brand delusion.

...

I'd say that realization comes, enlightenment
follows.

That is, one can come to jnana and know him/herself
as the Self, yet still operate with a locus of
individual identification, due to remaining karmas.
As these karmas expend themselves (and the
individual works through his/ her remaining issues)
the state of enlightenment (no individual left to
identify with) steadily manifests.

MICHAEL READ

fourth and 10

awakening lines up for a field goal if
enlightenment blocks, the game is over!

and the crowd goes wild!

JAMES TRAVERSE

The self evident answer to your qestion is - these
terms are not clearly defined - hence the need to
ask. So, one of the challenges for you is to
provide some clarity in your article.

I use the term 'realization' and define it as: to
'make real' the ultimate human potential.

I also use the term 'OneDuality' - more on this on
my web page http://www.beingyoga.com/ArtofYoga - if
you wish to use any of the material from there
please let me know.

DIANA

Excuse a humble novice here: What happened to
Mystery? How can you all go on debating through
your mentation, and scriptures, that which is by
definition unknowable to the conscious mind?

______________________________________________________________________

SU GANDOLF

I am posting this query a propos of a conversation
on HarshaSatsangh about spontaneous *yawning*. I
know there is a lot of crossover of personnel on
the two lists, so I am posting here, where I can
see the people apart from all the truth-seeking in
texts and dogma (good luck!) Just don't really want
to get started posting on another list...

So, anyway, there was a period when I was a
kid/adolescent (not sure at exactly what age(s))
where, every Sunday during mass, I would get the
*hiccups*. I started to realize it was happening,
and would just watch it happen, every week, week
after week. I don't know how long this went
on--don't have that kind of a memory--but I know it
happened over quite some period of time.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Any
NDS-armchair theories on what was going on? (I'm
pretty sure I wasn't drinking too much of that
sickly-sweet wine, er, blood, on Sunday
mornings...)

GENE POOLE

"Spontaneous yawning" can be a natural defense
against hypnosis.

In hypnosis phenomena, imposed 'sleep' equals the
disposal of the 'ego' as a viable factor of the
psyche. It is this way in 'natural sleep', but
hypnosis requires 'trance' in which 'ego' is
decommissioned.

If those requirements are met, the voice of the
hypnotist literally 'becomes' the 'inner voice' of
the hypnotized one.

Preachers and other propagandists use hypnotic
technique to subdue ego, then to implant their
voices/values into those entranced.

I have witnessed this 'spiritually motivated' style
of trance-induction on several occasions, the most
blatant example was during a 'free introduction to
Ananda Marga'. In this scenario, one Swami by
speaking, put at least 100 people 'under' in less
than 3 minutes. Understand, that hypnosis was NOT
mentioned or advertised as being a 'feature' of the
evening presentation.

His support staff were absolutely enraged, when I
stood from my seat and walked to the door, but they
could not utter a sound, lest they break the
trance.

Obligingly, I clapped 3 times before I left the
building; the 'audience' of sleepers jerked awake,
completely startled by the sudden change of
positions of the staff and me. The majority of the
audience left the building shortly after I left;
the presenters were (it seemed to me!) 'murderously
angry' with me for blowing their scene.

Many people who 'lay a trip' on others, use
hypnosis as a natural talent. Yawning in those
circumstances, is a reaction which can not only
forestall falling into trance, but also conveys
disinterest in the proffered 'ideas'.

Have you been hypnotized lately?

Gene Pool

PS: I used my learned 'anti-trance' talents in
another 'spiritual presentation', this one several
years later. It was the 'free workshop on
ascension' presented by the infamous 'Bo and Peep',
who later drained an Oregon town of most
inhabitants, who were then sent to wait for the
'mothership' in a remote desert location.

'Bo' was later featured as Applewhite, the insane
leader of the 'Heaven's Gate' suicide cult.

My actions during the presentation resulted in the
exit of most of the audience of about 40 people.
'Bo' was furious, but his 'spiritual facade'
required that he not act-out his rage against me.




________________________________________________________________________

MICHAEL READ

I permeate everything without thought.
All thought arise in me expressing my creation.
I am single, one, individual - all pervading.
No one, be they great or small, thinks lest I think.
No one, be they infant or adult, moves lest I move.

I am each one, separate yet not-separate.
The murderer, I am that one.
The saint, I am that one.
The drunkard too am I.
The realized and the ignorant am I.

When you see me, you see yourself.
It is simple so simple and so vastly complex.

If I tell you it is full (it is), you try to empty it.
If I tell you it is empty (it is), you try to fill it.

There is no you or I - there is only you and I.
How rare the character that understands this
not as duality nor as non-duality.

You are the infinite made flesh - do be involved and
enjoy life!

Love, at play in the fields of eternity - Michael

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