Click here to go to the next issue.

Friday, August 17


JOHN METZGER

Walking Nagarjuna

I do not walk between
The step already taken
And the one I'm yet to take,
Which both are motionless.

Is walking not the motion
Between one step and the next?
What moves between them?
Could I not move as I walk?

If I move when I walk,
There would be two motions:
One moving me and one moving my feet--
Two of us stroll by.

There is no walking without walkers,
And no walkers without walking.
Can I say that walkers walk?
Couldn't I say they don't?

Walking does not start
In steps taken or to come
Or in the act itself.
Where does it begin?

Before I raise a foot,
Is there motion,
A step taken or to come
Whence walking could begin?

What has gone?
What moves?
What is to come?

Can I speak of walkers,
When neither walking,
Steps taken nor to come ever end?

Were walking and walkers one,
I would be unable to tell them apart;
Were they different,
There would be walkers who do not walk.

These moving feet reveal a walker
But did not start him on his way.
There was no walker prior to departure.
Who was going where?

__________________________________________________________________

GARY MERRILL

It was recently mentioned that some people on this
list are advocates of 'sudden awakening' and the
'direct path', Just to make clear that I am not one
such advocate;

Those that engage in any process must do so towards
an end; end and means; So when is the end? If a
process is to have an end then surely that end must
be sudden? Further, any path must surely be direct
if it is to lead anywhere.

Only those which are asleep need to be awakened it
seems; and how would the sleepers know what it is
to be awake I wonder? How would those that are
awake be sure they are not still asleep??

Without path I wander through the days of my life,
alone and without fear, I shall not want, leaving
that to better men and women.

___________________________________________________________________

ANDREW MACNAB

Mark W. Otter wrote:
> Now, "theocracy", THERE'S a word.

Theo Cracy, eccentric engineer and stone mason,
invented and manufactured an electronic device for
measuring the stresses and strains in flying
buttresses, the technocracy, there was an automated
version, the autocracy, and a version with a
transparent case, the democracy. Theo disappeared
into obscurity after his business was taken over by
the reclusive tycoon Dick 'Tator' Ship.

love,
andrew

__________________________________________________________________________

MICHAEL READ

I got mine,
Did you get yours?
I found it right here,
Where is yours?
It was here all along,
Why are you looking over there?
I learned that I am nobody,
Do you enjoy being somebody?
It really is nothing,
Why look for something?

Yabba-dabba-doo! - Michael

_____________________________________________________________________________

SU

what this list is for, for me....This sincere
sharing from a place of nondual understanding (or
aspiration to understand). It doesn't matter.
(Thank you, Mark.) And maybe some general
atmosphere of mutual support. I don't know. There
are intangibles. I am not interested in "flames" or
personal attacks. But I do not "write people off"
or look at these things in a black-or-white way. I
enjoy being challenged. It is not characteristic
for me to write reactively or in anger, yet I did.
Which is wonderful too, for me. Because I AM all of
it. Thank you for the question. This list, at this
moment, no, these few months as a unit, has been a
lovely way to connect with, accept and understand
the Self as self and the Self as other. And blah,
blah, blah (I also enjoy words well-used). I may
"take a vacation", and I did not mention that as a
"threat". Posting some here, on this issue or
others, helps clarify things. Including motives,
whatever the action is. Fuck, it's just so fucking
rich. Can you see?

_________________________________________________________________________

MICHAEL JOHNSON

I have been an on again, off again subscriber to
NDS for the last two or three years. In that time I
have learned a lot from the compassionate responses
and from the seemingly "harsh" responses. The
former made me feel good, the latter hurt and
angered me...yet they all were appropriate for "my"
growth and awakening. I still live my life asleep
most of the time and for some unknown stupid reason
I come back on this list to wake up to the fact
that there are all kinds of people in the world.
The "spiritual" people are actually tougher on the
ego than is the rest of world. Why is this?
Probably because they can see when others are
operating out of ignorance and on lists like these,
they feel safe to let it all hang out!

There is an old saying..."If you can't stand the
heat, get out of the kitchen".

When I unsubscribe...this is what I am doing and I
do it for me.

________________________________________________________________________

YOGINI SAKTI

Someone wrote [[.. yogis are all about "management
technique",]] ** This is far from an accurate
description of what a yogin is or does.

Yogins are those who practice Rajayoga. Individuals
who have received diksha; individuals who are
sadhakas &/or sannyasins.

And as pertains to myself, someone who will one day
become a swami.

"In the one who has conquered his self & is
peaceful, the Supreme Self - in heat or cold, joy
or pain, honor or disgrace - abides in serenity. He
who is full of wisdom & understanding, calm &
controlled, to whom a clod, a stone & gold are the
same, is in truth a yogin." - Bhagavad Gita

Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti

_________________________________________________________________________

MARK OTTER

Hi Yogini,

You said "** As children we learnt that fire burns.
As we grow-up, we have experienced this physical
reminder in a number of ways. The lesson is there
.. in our Heart. We know the sensations envolved,
there is no need to deliberately place our hands in
fire to re-remind ourselves.

Om Santi ... Yogini Sakti"

I am not disagreeing nor disagreeing here, but
inviting you to ponder awhile. My experience of
life has been that much of my energy has gone
towards worrying about attacks by other people,
whether in the form of outright rudeness, or subtle
slurs, or unconscious proffering of expectations.
This worry has resulted in fortifications that I
have erected around my heart to keep people out.
I've been investigating this awhile and working to
remove these fortifications, with some but alas not
complete success. I find that many of the most
compelling ways in which this dismantling has
occurred has required cooperation (or is it
confrontation?) from others. My most recent biggie
is the loss of my job, and my rejection of my boss
and colleagues due to my perceived rejection by
them. In fact, I lost my job because I did not do
the task. And my boss and colleages have been sorry
to see me go, at least until I started being nasty
to them due to my perceptions that they were
rejecting me... I see that it is all my own doing,
and I'm letting go of my "garbage" as best I can
and trying to heal my relationships, being patient
that it may take time as others are even yet
defending themselves against what they anticipate I
will be doing based on my past behavior. (and I
have a long-term, deeply ingrained habit of
defending myself from my projections of what they
are thinking about me. sheesh!)

I say all this to illustrate a dynamic which I feel
is quite fundamental to human suffering, which is
assuming that human behavior is as constant and
reliable as fire is. I have no doubt that fire will
burn me if I put my hand in it, but I am coming to
question this as a metaphor for human emotions.
Judi's blunt way of speaking doesn't burn me. (go
ahead, Judi, call my bluff) I've simply
recalibrated my sense of "burn" towards her and
it's quite lovely to be able to laugh at myself
with her and I trust her to laugh at herself with
me when I get in a good one. (and I get in good,
subtle ones now and then) And every now and then, I
look up from the game board and realize that we are
here together in peace or war, and that which it is
is entirely up to us. I can't control Judi's
comments, so I just let them do whatever they want.
Where I have gone wrong in the past is in judging
them and doing the activity of getting hurt by
those I judge offensive.

I think that dismantling this reaction-formation is
my central spiritual practice. Oh sure, I do
pranayama and I meditate and I do holotropic
breathwork and I read Ramana Maharshi and
Nisargadatta and those are all wonderful things to
do, but to me their value is in how they support me
to dismantle my assumptions that anything can harm
me and that there is any reason for me to be
offended by anything. So, while I am not here to
defend Judi's style, or to prolong the discussion
surrounding her (can you feel her spirit revelling
in the attention?), I am here to participate in the
lists interest and exploration of the concept of
nonduality. Years ago, I submitted to Jerry, back
when he was steering this ship, the definition of
nonduality that I find worthy of work. "To me,
nondualism means we no longer stand at dawn to
shoot each other down with archaic emotional
pistols."

Well, I am doing exactly what I am preaching
against, so let me stop with the thought that you
can't convince anyone else to stop dueling, you can
only convince yourself.

I wish you luck in convincing yourself, and I am
fondly hoping that you will wish me luck in
convincing myself. Once there is no activity
defending the self, the self disappears, because
the self was that activity all along. ("I"
suspect.)

Love, Mark

_______________________________________________________________________

MELODY

" i heard it said and know it to be true that a
sword that slashes through falsehood is a sword
that creates one rather than two through its cut."

Wow. I 'heard' that!

...

> Melody, it's rockin'... if it were a kayak, I'd be hanging upside
> down in the river with no idea how to eskimo roll it out.
>
> rock on,
> Nina

I hear you. :-)

If your experiences have been like mine, even if
you *knew* how to eskimo roll it out, something
would have prevented you from doing so. :-)

I've had a taste of being 'rocked' myself these
past weeks.

One after another, Life has presented the
(heretofore) most unbelievable challenges my
way.....

so much so that any sense of personal volition, or
idea of 'control' has evaporated.

Whatever I feared came to pass; whatever I resisted
I was presented; whatever I had 'planned' fell
apart. After a point there was nothing left to do
but laugh about it.....laugh in seeing that even
though "i" was powerless to alter, avoid, escape
from, or redirect the flow of Life,

Life continued to live and breathe thru me...

without any 'help' from 'me' whatsoever. :-)

What a hell of a summer it's been.

I wouldn't have changed it if 'i' could.

(Well, except for maybe that emergency gall bladder
surgery. Ouch! )


______________________________________________________________________


BLUEPAINT

> I think we're all Bozos on this
> bus.
>
> love, mark


high Heart
low mind
mean spitited
low brow
taliesin paths,
all...

NDS puts *god*
on that bus,
right there -
on the tattered
old dried gum
seat sitting
beside you and me.

the greyhound flys.

eric/bluepaint/freeheart/shiva/dogstar
just another egroup indentity
loser :-)

top of page