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JERRY KATZ A meeting with J. Krishnamurti

Hi JB,

Thank you for reporting your exceptional experience. Rajneesh once said that
Krishnamurti transmitted 'something'. I've reported here my experience with
shaking Krishnamurti's hand and the effect. I didn't notice anything right
away, but that evening my chest filled with energy dramatically. I too was
taken by his greeting of me and the gaze into his eyes. I felt as though I
was the first and last person he'd ever met. He made me feel that way.

The context of my encounter was different than yours. Mine was in Ojai and
nobody was going up to him after his talk. He was speaking to a couple of
people, and when I walked toward him, he met my greeting. I simply reached
out my hand and said 'Thank you' as an expression of general gratitude more
than anything else.

I never felt the encounter changed my life or anything. It made for an
interesting experience. But who really knows what kind of long-term, whole
body physiological change is brought about by such an encounter? Afterall,
there was a physical effect, an energy play of some kind, that was induced.
Gopi Krishna made a big deal about studying the biological basis of
Kundalini, and there have been many genuine scientific studies done on the
neurophysiology of meditation and consciousness. Kundalini Biology is a vast
and diverse field of study whose surface hasn't even been scratched.

Jerry



MICHAEL JOHNSON Feelings?

Hello:

How does an enlightened being relate to
his/her feelings?

Feelings being the reactions in the body to
the thoughts and emotions produced by the brain.

There is an image seen here that an enlightened being
is always in bliss and happiness.

Yet, they are also human beings who have feelings,
just like the rest of us...are they not?

I would appreciate comments from anyone who would care
to share.

Thank you,

Michael



NINA


:) Existing in a perpetual state of bliss and happiness would seem to
be unenlightened. How could one be enlightened if they knew nothing
of the other end of the spectrum?

> Yet, they are also human beings who have feelings,
> just like the rest of us...are they not?

Difficult to say exactly what the rest of us are feeling.

Anecdotal evidence of a quandary:

Vienna. 1994. Home of Freud. Approaching 100 years later.

American and Viennese governments conspire to bring together 20 or so
fellows. The setting: an orientation on Austrian and Viennese
cultures.

Panel on economics digresses widely and finds itself lost in the
territory of a conversation one fellow had with her landlady. The
rest of us watch in humored fascination as this one fellow pantomines
and laments the brutal exchange. At the end, she cries out:

"...and I just didn't know how to phEEeeeeeEEEeeeEl!"

<End of Anecdote>

So now, for me, every discussion of feelings is colored by the image
of a short red-head in snazzy dress, waving her arms in the air, face
screwed up in miserable disbelief... accompanied by the warbling
whine of the trigger word: "feelings".

Additionally, most any time I think of Vienna, I think to
myself: "How do I feel?"

Now, what in the world was this woman talking about... the feeling?
or the how-to?

-HOW- do I feel? How do I -FEEL-? (How about you?)

Nina may seem ornery, but ornery does not seem Nina.


JERRY


Hi Michael,

Welcome back. I used to think about those things. Now I figure everything
just 'is'.

Jerry


JAN B

How does an enlightened being relate to
ºhis/her feelings?

That would depend, whether happy with them or not,
in the sense the Buddha suggested: either rejoice them
(the remaining feelings) or they will burn out.
As for the Buddha, the potential to experience pleasure
and pain was considered a pain itself, for him, not a choice :)
º

When knowing the proverbial ocean of bliss, the sensory
is consisting of a few drops...
But that is what the scriptures convey - although correct,
feelings for a great deal determine behavior. If Ramana
wouldn't have enjoyed the life at the ashram, there wouldn't
have been one. When bliss and happiness are constant,
feelings still can make the difference - observable in behavior.

ºYet, they are also human beings who have feelings,
ºjust like the rest of us...are they not?

That depends: when 'unhappy' with the remaining feelings
(fear, shame, guilt, embarrassment burn our first),
they will burn out too.
Even without those 4 feelings, one can't be called a "normal"
human being anymore as behavior and mode of thinking,
hence responsiveness, will differ greatly.
In fact, being unconditioned can mean a "hard" time,
not being insensitive (still) to the conditioning, displayed
by "society and its members" and having to function in it...
But when the remainder burns out, no comparison is
possible because the entire outlook on "life and the
universe" will differ...

There is a little secret - dissolving the "i" is poetically and abundantly described
in literature - tales of love and bliss. But the veil of "love & compassion",
being much more tenacious than the veil of selfishness, when dissolving, gives rise to
much greater bliss... Zeroing all phenomenal pleasures in succession... That is "where"
there is only the ocean of bliss...


MICHAEL READ

Pardon me but, hahahahah and hohoho! Laugh when happy - cry when sad.
No need to analyze or take feelings personally at all. They are as
natural to a so-called awakened person as to anyone else. Maybe more
so. Why? Because there is no longer the need to feel so
self-important.

>
> Yet, they are also human beings who have feelings,
> just like the rest of us...are they not?

Yes! When you 'reach enlightenment' you realize that you have never
been separate from the universe. Life is the greatest trick. It is
the passion and play of the universe.

If you want to wake-up and live life as an 'enlightened being', allow
the natural process of opening to occur. Yes, you have to make some
small effort - that's just the way it works. You have to ask and to be
open (admit you know nothing - realize that your jar is already empty)
and the answer will be revealed.

You know, Jesus didn't spend forty days in the desert looking for his
watch. And, Gautama didn't park himself under the Bo tree to wait for
the tea cart. Awakening is not an escape from life. It is the opening
and willingness to embrace life fully.




YOGINI SAKTI

** Life is a great & wondrous river. The bank to one side
is 'pleasure', the otherside is 'pain'. Every one of us has the goal
to view these casually, to float down the center, riding the current
of life, avoiding the rocks along the way & not crashing too
dramatically onto either bank.

Deeper .. this beautiful river is our susumi .. the central current
of our Life Force. The path on which travels the Serpent Supreme.
Whether we call this greatness Ananta or Shesha, the meaning is the
same. The experience we seek, the same.

Be a Witness to Life around you .. there is no need to become mired.

Om Shant ...
Yogini Sakti



Hi Gary,

Fair question for Pieter. Pieter is an on-going contributor who write on
nondualism and Kundalini. Looking at his work as a whole, this submission fits
in. Pieter's website is at
<http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/pieter.htm>

Thanks,

Jerry Katz


GARY MERRILL


With due deferrence (well some) I have had a very quick look at Pieter's
site. If this reply then is too quick apologies, though referring to
anything anyone else has already said destroys the immediacy of any
dialogue. "you see I can't be wrong, just look at the Bible, its all in
there" sort of diversion.

It raises an interesting difference between 'non-dualism' as a philosophy
and 'non-dualism' as an immediacy. To me ND as a philosophy is still
dualism. It is based on security, that there is something to get "somewhere
to abide", as if when 'I' realise ND I'll be safe and worthy and all the
practise and advice will be justified.

"Immediate ND" for want of a better expression is right where we are sitting
now. No relativity, no time, no self. Its not a philosophy. Our life and our
death is not a philosophy. I bring love in because where there is this
search for security in something then there can be no love. Love is the end
of me and its not secure. So any process and practise is really philosophy,
and yoga has all of that tradition, but it won't save me.

Love and best wishes,
Gary

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