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Saturday July 28, 2001

**********



MATTHEW & JAN


º> º
º> º.........haha you make it sound as if the mind could be filled up
º> ºlike the belly.
º>
º> Sure - and can even perceive it :)
º> It's the reason to immediately leave when another mind-body comes
ºtoo close :)
º
º............is that the mind filling up or just hyper-sensitivity?

A kind of sensitivity likely to develop in many hermits - due to the absence
of any sense stimuli. Not "paranormal" but very normal, as the "average
unruly mind" shows in behavior too...
º
º
º>
º> Ego isn't using anything - it is mistaking ropes to be snakes and
ºpoison
º> for bananas.
º
º..........i don't understand your bananas and poison and snakes thing
ºbut ego does use everything it can to assure itself it's control
ºcontinued over the organism. "Winning" at all costs. If control over
ºthe organism means to ego that the body dies, it will.

With "ego" but an observed issue seemingly "ruling" the planet,
theorists could start to wonder if, for the sake of argument,
there is something like "planetary ego" - kind of restating
the "gaia" hypothesis.
º
º
º> º> Without a sense of "i" (sensitivity no longer shielded by "ego"),
º> º> wouldn't it be painful to live in ego-based society - not to be
º> º> mistaken for "dualistic"?
º> º
º> º............no not really.
º>
º> You think it doesn't make a difference?
º
º...........i didn't say that. But actually i agree with you. it is
ºpainful to live in an ego-based society. Seeing how there is no other
ºtype of society available it is probably best to make peace with that
ºpain. Unless one wants to avoid those feelings of Compassion and
ºbecome a hermit.

Having been a hermit for over 32 years, that advice is sound...
The "hidden gem" is that there is something like a "birthright
on unconditional happiness" but "digging it up" makes all
"ordinary" meditation and other practices a laugh...
º
º
º> Nothing really matters - certainly true in "holiday paradise".
º> But "unconditionally realized" only when the "human interface"
ºis "dead",
º> otherwise mere intellectualism.
º
º..............what do you mean by "human interface" being "dead"? It
ºsounds like you are saying that when one is no longer able to
ºinterface with others on a human level that that is somehow
ºindicative of, or a pre-requisite for unconditional realization. But
ºthat is just stupid so you can't mean that.

Perhaps the term "human interface" is too cryptic to understand.
In the class of mammals, behavior varies widely... A zebra shows
no sign of emotion when a fellow member of the herd is devoured
by the lions whereas when some pet dog loses its mate it can be seen
mourning on the grave for a period of time, refusing to eat.
What i call "human interface" is the software, determining
"spontaneous" human behavior (in all its varieties). When that
is "dead" the software is known, response accordingly is possible
but neither spontaneous nor compulsory...So it is possible to
ignore the issue as if it doesn't exist...

º
º
º
º> º> Hence, unless "upheld by karma", the entire "human interface"
ºwould
º> º> dissolve and with it, the readiness to talk...
º> º
º> º............it may or may not dissolve, depends on the individual.
º>
º> So the individual is separate from its surrounding?
º
º.............not at all

Indeed, and on a tiny island, the "major" surrounding is the ocean...
º
º> Whence the impression that "all sentient life is suffering" but from
º> surroundings? Wouldn't that be the logical outcome of having
ºanalyzed
º> "ego-based" life? It was for the Buddha and back then, there were no
º> media showing an hourly summary of global misery...
º
º.......not sure what you are saying here
º> º ........matthew

As long as Gautama was leading the "happy" life in the palace,
its walls were the surroundings. Had there been CNN, the other
side, suffering, would have risen to awareness much earlier.
When very sensitive, the coin called "pleasure & pain" is
defined as suffering - whereas for most i've known, pain is
accepted as the cost for pleasure. That involves drawing
an invisible borderline - one, the Buddha erased...


NDS

Greetings friends,

For those wishing to fine-tune their cult-leadership roles, here is a
fine link:

<http://www.theonion.com/onion3725/doomsday_cult.html>


==Gene Poole==



VAL (yeti) & BRUCE excerpts from a continuing dialogue

>
> v: body-mind imbalance - they are so interconnected it is almost
> scary. But
> when it is the emotions causing the psyche to cause the brain to
> emit weird
> body chemicals into the body system - it is an over-all malaise.

Yes, but there is no way to
identify chicken vs. egg.
Even in cases where emotions
are the nominal cause, it
may well be brain chemistry
that triggers the emotions!

> Nipping it
> in the bud - using mental discipline to apply positive affirmations
> will
> over-ride the negative programming which causes the brain-chemical
> imbalance, eh?

No, it won't -- at least in
my experience this results
in a tense sort of faux
remedy that requires not only
great vigilance, but also an
immense, tooth-grinding
exertion of effort that's
nearly impossible to keep up
in everyday life. Be careful
of this approach, which is
typical of tight-grinned
inveterate twelve-steppers
all over the world -- of
course if you can make it
work without such
consequences by all means go
for it!

> People often get too caught up in their causes - feeling hopeless in
> the
> face of overwhelming odds. But stepping back and recognizing -
> reminding
> themselves "I am not my cause, I am one with Tao" - or some similar
> sentiment - will work towards elevating the psyche - and thus the
> whole
> system - beyond the pits and abyss-s of abject despair.

The affirmation part is imo
optional and overly elaborate,
the clear observation of
getting "caught up" is the end
of being "caught up!"

> Then there is another - where the hurt and rage is already imbedded
> in the system and must be purged.

Or simply noted as a mere
memory and allowed to exist
or not as such.
{...}
>
> v: I admire that, Bruce.

I just find it works, Val.

> That's when we can sit in our houses or our seminarys
> or churches or somewhere where we can stew in our dysfunction,
> bless it, offer it up to God, rant and rave, cry and storm,
> scream the primal scream, even.

The whole process can occur
in an augenblick, with no
outward signs. There may
be a short interval of
discomfort, a twinge, but
it's much less obtrusive than
attempting an offsetting
positive imaging routine or
struggling to repress. In my
experience, it's practical.

> Being in real life society - and trying not to spread disease,
> or be that gaping wound of the universe -
> well that is another thing.

It doesn't have to be. That's
the reverse coinside of the old
aphorism " the ashram is the
world" -- the world is also the
ashram!

> NOT acting on it...hmmm.

Yup -- and that's not the same
as forcing yourself not to act
on it -- it's a silent surrender
rather than a struggle.

snip


> Let anger arise and flower
> and pass away naturally
> is good advice, and I thank you.
> But so simplistic!
> :-)

More often than not simplicity
works -- I find that the real
difficulty in such matters
isn't complexity, it's the
subtle, stealthy ways that
thought has of attaching
itself to the *notion* of
complexity, the illusion that
thought amounts to some sort
of ongoing entity or "mind"
rather than the transient,
fragmented series of events
thought really is.
{...}
I reiterate that sometimes
depression is just depression
and visualizing elaborate
reasons for it is beside the
point. Apply the bandage
first, then learn how to
avoid boo-boos! :-)
>
.....
> That thinking he posted below leads only to
> more Hell and chaos - eventually death.

Not necessarily -- it's only
thought, after all, and
harmless when seen as such!

> What you said above holds water IF he is devoid of
> basic blessings

Whether its actually true or
not, a deeply depressed
person is incapable of
counting his/her blessings --
that's the way that
particular wound bleeds.

> and is likely to reverse
> being thankful for what he has
> into covetousness for what he has not.

It is the very nature of
thought in the recurrent
pattern of ego to seek change
it sees as beneficial to its
own illusory continuity --
whether that amounts to
covetessness or positive
imaging for self-improvement
is a mere detail!
{...}
That's why we either have
the ability to summon up an
operative ego or we die when
the going gets rough,
possibly taking loved ones
with us. Ego's origin is as
a survival trait, and it can
be very good at honchoing
survival efforts for the host
organism.

> Only THEN - away from that edge - is the time to meditate and touch
> who we are inside even allowed.
> (i probly shouldn't even admit this, but - phttt! ;-P)

Obviously survival comes first.
>
> v: when one is overrun by negative and hurtful emotions,
> controlling one's thoughts is the first step to freedom
> to just observe the thoughts.

That's thought displacement
or substitution, it is not
by any means control! I
won't dispute what you say
as it's outside my ken.

> when one's thoughts are as below, or memories of
> abuse, and/or hopeless in every way -
> then controlling those thoughts
> FIRST and immediately
> takes precedence over allowing any
> flow of thoughts to observe
> to happen.

It seems from here the only
truly imperative thought is
"Shoot, those are only
memories and thoughts!" --
thought's trying to take
credit for the clarity of
observation! :-)

> you're speaking as a relatively happy,
> emotionally-balanced individual,

I'm grateful to be and to
be seen as such -- it
definitely wasn't my doing,
so as my friend Jody might
say: Jai Ma!
{...}

> But I have decided to change my venue for venting,
> so be advised! LOL! :-)))
> I am about to pick up my sonorous cherrywood guitar and embark on
> further
> adventures writing and singing songs and creating music in real time

Outstanding -- remember, no
whiney stuff! :-)
> -
> this writing on the internet seems so thankless and futile!
> But I'll still be here - let's see how quiet I can be!
>
That'll be the day! :-)

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