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Friday May 25, 2001




|
| What is the purpose of Satsang? The seeker has his reasons. The
| teacher has hers. Ones' opinions are not the truth. What happens is
| often magical, and unplanned.
|
| You don't come to get enlightened. Enlightenment already exists. You
| are it. The fictitious identity, the persona that you present to
| world, doesn't fully get it. But it appears to, and then it knows
| that enlightenment exists. Everything is seen as the same thing
| everywhere and it is seen that the mind is not the Self.
|
| Real Satsang will finish you off. You won't come back again as a
| seeker. You might never attend your teacher's satsang again. You
| will be Satsang, and everything you do will resonate the truth of
| what you know.
|
| dave oshana
forwarded by Gill Eradley



Hi,

I just wanted to let you know of a site I just announced:
and I thought you may be interested in it.

Physics Forums:
http://physicsforumscom.readyhosting.com

Discuss, gravity, speed of light, reality, dimensions, religion and
more!

All the best
Greg
forwarded by Jerry



Subject: Talking About "Me"

Marcia: I have worked for so many years with people
in a 4th Way setting, that I forget that
most likely I won't be understood to be
talking from a nonidentified perspective. That
is not always the case but mostly when I talk
about "me", I am not full of "me" but rather
just the opposite. All the machinations of Marcia
are not who I Am. Mechanicality is a huge force
which moves through (ME)us. I will always be
mechanical.

Alan: You will mechanically be trying to get rid of an
I trying to get to some other I..It it endless ego
shit. Eventually you come to a big Nada and you either
freak out or just be your true essencie self with out
b.s and sexual seduction from an ego high mind
intellect.}

Marcia: It is only mechanicality that thinks it is
conscious and can escape mechanicality. Mechanicality is as
large a force as Great Nature herself. What is
possible is that I can separate from my mechanicality
as it moves through me. This separation is food for
the soul.


Alan: Yeah and as long as you are posting ten times a
day you aren't even close to the point of coming to
the big no thing.You talk the talk real well..It might
help others but you ain;t going to get it not for a
long time yet.You'll get closer when you are more
silent.Try twice day meditation and let the
unconscious unload and the dark side to surface and
then practice conscious intentional suffering by
passing through that identification factor..Jump into
the big void and prattling will slow down and you will
have more energy to feed the dogs and make pancakes
and eggs and all those other thangs too.

with conscious awareness.That in itself will slow the
prattle down..guaranteed.All the
sytematics,intellectual babbling...well good luck my
friends.Perhaps this will be of help to pass through
some of that mechanicality.

Oh yeah don;t worry now about the mechanicality
because if you do you RE IDENTIFYING..sOME TIMES WE
HAVE TO IDENTIFY FIRST..THATS REALLY what G means
about coming to ones nothingness.His definition of
nothingness is not the same as the Buddhist
nothingness or sunyata..His definition is where there
is still suffering.Suffering is not enough like Thich
Nhat Hahn says..You have to give up suffering..that
terror of the situation and just finally live your
lives and forget all this bullshit high mind fourth
syttematic talktalk and go out and plant some flowers
and smell some dirt.As long as the Gurdjieff verbage
walks you around like a dog on a leash you are more
identified and mechanical than you realize.
Hey ya all..Have a good day.



The faculty of creating is never given to us all by itself. It always goes hand in hand with the gift of
observation. And the true creator may be recognized by his ability to find about him, in the commonest
and humblest thing, items worthy of note.


~Igor Stravinsky (1882-1971)

posted by Mira on Perceptions Of Life list.



Aren't you going to tell the story about the Sufi?

I wasn't going to, but now that you ask , it's this :

The royal court was assembled awaiting the arrival
of the king , when a raggedly dressed Sufi fakir strolled in
and sat in the seat reserved for the king. The chief minister
was aghast . He said , "Who do you think you are ,
coming in here like this ? Do you imagine yourself a minister?"

"A minister ?" asked the Sufi. "No , I am more than that."
"Well you can't be the Chief Minister . I am the the Chief minister.
Are you the King?"
"Not the King." said the Sufi. "I am more than that."
"Are you the Emperor?"
"No , I am more than that."
"The Prophet?"
"No, I am more than that."
"Do you think you are God?"
"No , I am not God , I am more than that."
"But more than God there's nothing!"
" Yes , that is correct,"said the Sufi.
"I am that nothing."


from Ramesh Balsekar's Consciousness Speaks
posted by Vicki on A Net of Jewels



sheez tony....

i forgezt how many new dharma doors are opening every second given that
the rate of increase in the human population has reached exponential
levels, but it certainly too large a number to comprehend.... how about
if i be taoist and say, Ten Thousand.... as a former student of
philosphy, comparative religion, and mystical theology you remind me of
my tweens when i was going to catalogue and decontruct every major
religon in the world until i found the one true one.... one day i
did.... i stopped practicing studying my life and i started practicing
living my life... you have put yourself in one hole and me in
another.... i smile....a hole is a hole.... if you want to label me let
me help you.... i am many parts zen, a few less roman catholic (as in
plotinus not the pope) definitely more monotheistic than
polytheistic... since, as a modern mystic, i do not believe we can
'know'
anything about anything because the very process of knowing something
changes it into something new, i am also a non-dualist....NETI NETI....
but i do love the many varieties of buddhism.... but other than
zen....probably Tibetan the best.... vedanta and advaita.... with their
propensity to deny the real in favor of the abstract leaves me cold....
which is to say, when it comes to the gnostic heresy, it is just that
to me, a heresy (i adore Teilhhard de Chardin, Ken Wilber, Bede
Griffeths, Stephen Hawking.....).... the duality between the spiritual
and the material is the
only real illusion there is..... of course there are many ways to talk
about this duality, we can take consciousness and break it into pieces
and create time and space, the past and the future, life and death,
the body and the soul, the lover and the beloved.... with endless
effort we can desconstruct decontructionism itself and end up in
nihilism which many seekers confuse with nothingness and think, having
fallen totally into delusion (despair), they are the only awake ones
because of their though-minded pragmatism....in
the end the beginning is really very simple.... when you awake in the
morning are you eager to get up..... do you hear yourself laughing.....
do you hear yourself crying....tonysan.....when i read your posts they
make me happy and sad..... you seem to know which path everyone is
on.....i am merely on the way....call it what you will.... white wolfe
sits in amusement right now watching mark writing to tony..... why?....
why ask why? .... for the sheer fun of the word play.... for the
absolute delight in having you tell me who you think i am.... whoever
you say that i am, i am not.... i am always moving away from nouns and
adjectives into verbs and adverbs..... what i will tell you since you
do not seem to hear it through 'pig poetry' (love that phrase, i
do....LOL everytime i stumble onto it) too well is that the beloved is
manifesting itself.... you are the reason it is all here.... all these
religions.... all these dialgoues.... it is all here for us to
enjoy.....(i may have even created you to remind me how silly i can
really be) the happiness and the sorrow.... the laughter and the
tears.... the damnation and the salvation..... the war and the
peace..... pick a side anyside.... just play the game, but know that
you are playing the gaming you are creating and if you are losing it is
because you really want to lose this time to enjoy the bitterness of
defeat so that next time you can enjoy the sweetness of victory... or
you can be like the white wolfe.... and enjoy them both at the same
time.... remorselessly in love with his beloved and faithful to her and
their sacred packe (all creation).... tonysan, you created all this for
me to enjoy just now..... you are the beloved.....but i want to
thank-you for not really being my beloved, because i love the game i am
playing with my beloved better...she is prettier than you and darker
and more mysterious and well, tony, she is a better version of you
(ROTFLOL)....i am in love my dark one, mira, she is the beloved in the
game i invite you to play... the many arise into two and the two join
to create a new one....am i arising out of you tony or are you arising
out of me.....who cares....the fun is in the deception that i am not
you.....even though i know that i am......if you don't catch me first
then i will catch you.....^^~~~~~~

further up and further in,

white wolfe
posted on Harsha Satsangh


Enjoy,

http://nothingland.freeyellow.com/moon.html


Surprise,
Erich
posted on Perceptions of Life


jb wrote:
<snip>
> That naughty stork! This has to be the "wrong" planet after all :)
>
> Jan


No this is the right planet, nothing's gone wrong.
Eden is right here right now and perfectly accessable if you want it.

andrew



> How was your trip? Why did you go
> to Israel?
>
> I hope you have a good day also.
>
> Marcia

Very good,well done! Thank you for the attention with no negative
reactive emotion nor reminders of mine.You are doing well.My trip was
fruitful,culturally enlightening and brought to me knew meaning of
religious and cultural allegiance and mechanicality.The awareness of
this place and the harsh way that people react to each other led me
to think and imagine that I might be a reincarnated Jew or Arab.
:-)
Why I go there? I went to check out a Transcendental meditation
Kibbutz on the Sea of Gallilee and a 4th way group in Yofat and
Because there is a woman there that I have fallen in love with and I
wanted to be with her,see where she lived,how she lived and learn
about the people and way of life etc.
Actually I think I am going to return someday to teach meditation and
the way of the contemplative and try to help link it up to all of the
transpersonal verbage and Jewish Kabbalist contemplative prayer.Jack
Kornfield and Rabbi david Cooper,Melinda Ribner have done a lot to
help Judaism make sense of its ritual fundamental reality(Goog book
titled Meditation from the Heart Of Judaism by Avram Davis..Nice
Jewish bot turned Buddhist for many years goes home to help make
sense in light of mindfulness practice and body sensation meditation
of Jewish ritual)Israel is a spiritually hungry place and starving on
its fundmentalism.They are a very erotic people with lots of
exieohary.The trouble is some try to hide it and play discreet games
for fear of losing something they don;t have anyways rather than try
to touch their own childhood and addolescence negative self
esteem .Some don;t understand that Honesty is the best policy and are
probably still at the stage of painting sparrows and selling them for
american caneries if you know what I mean? People will rip you
off,exploit you if you are not careful and have some one with you who
speaks hebrew as well as cunning enough to know their games.It is a
beautiful place in many ways and a compilation of a very high tech
society..there is the sense of an old culture,old way of life turning
over very fast.The people are on edge a lot and at the same time they
pay little attention to machine guns and m-16 s being fired in the
night while asleep.The Bahai Gardens were beautiful,The Moslems
praying and singing at night you could also hear carried by the winds
from Arab villages a few miles away ..All of this reminded me of the
duality in nonduality that we all live in.You have a good day too.
If nonduality cares to see a few rolls of current pictures of various
places of Israel let me know. I will post them alan_k_97267@yahoo.com
Alan



Does the fact that you have fallen in love with
a woman in Israel mean you are no longer
married? Forgive me if I am being dense here. :-)
Or too personal. Or way behind the times.

Marcia



Yeah thats what it means but it was heading in that
direction before I met her.Married 20 years and gave
it up like a bad habit..No not too personal at all.
Dissoltution of marriage was legal as of April
11th..Moved out of the house in November..went to
Capetown south Africa for 4-5 weeks,came back to work
for two weeks and got fired after working there and
working hard at keeping my job for 12 years then went
to Israel and tryed to find work there to no avail .
Working towards getting into entirely new
field..Taking it all just one day at a time.This list
and others has been a help for me and has inspired me
to move this type of community into the relative too.I
will be posting some information...a flyer soon for
the local Portland ,Oregon area and will be inspiring
folks from various meditation practice and traditions
to meet once a week for a one hour dialogue with a
particular theme followed by a half hour meditation
and then coffee,pastry and cookies as one wishes.This
is going to be at a local N.W. coffee house that rents
out a large upper room for events like this.The cover
charge will be some where between 10 and 15 dollars a
a person. People that can;t seem to fit into any
particular tradition or system but desire to keep up a
daily meditation practice and even define their
reasons to do this or those wanting to even learn a
traditional method of meditation and participate in a
community open to the many possibilities would really
be welcome and encouraged to come..Gurdjieff people
can share Gurdjieff stuff,Advaita people Advaita
stuff,christian contemplatives share their stuff,Zen
Buddhist bring on their stuff etc etc .....All
followed by silent meditation..Those who would
resonate with Vipassana will do vipassana Shamatha,Zen
do zazen,tm 'ers do tm,cp er's do cp,some do body
sensation or you can just sit and pick your toe
nails,follow your breath or just sit there and feel
your sexiness or lack of and then cookie,tea and
coffee time.I like the idea..Its something I always
wanted to do but never had the confidence.Anyways
heres a couple pictures of the Bahai gardens and one
of me..I'd post one of my friend but shes at the
discreet stage.
So anyone out here interested in a type of
sitting,this type of environemt and are in the
Portland,Oregon area do let me know.It would be nice
to get at least 10 people together on a some what
regular basis.Email me at alan_k_972672yahoo.com

=====
ALAN KUNTZ



Anyway, I really don't think essence relationships
are possible over the net. Perhaps as an adjunct
to a relationship in the flesh, it may be possible.
But energies are exchanged, nonverbal, in the
presence of others. The verbal is the most
superficial level. In fact, I read my friends not
by what they do or don't say but by how they
are. The energy of self-remembering is palpable.

Marcia

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