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Tuesday, May 22



Beautiful Jan. I was out walking in the woods yesterday and thought of
how you send such lovely pictures sometimes and wished I could capture
what was all around me and send it to the list. A picture wouldn't
capture the stillness in the air and the feeling of warmth and the
smell of dry grass and the birds.

--Marcia

With a cheap digital camera it is easy to make pictures and with a
program like Paint Shop Pro, it can be modified in such a way, that on
your monitor it looks just as you saw it. But the stillness, the
serenity cannot be captured by the picture. Only when having been in a
similar surrounding, the picture "speaks" so to say... And the
fragrances, yes, totally missing... That is another reason why all
electronic communication is but a substitute... The only pleasant
alternative for communication is "Perfect Aloneness" :)

--Jan Barendrecht

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ºIdeas fortunately or unfortunately are left behind by 'dead guys', and
ºwritten down in books. Where would your enlightenment be without any º
reading-----I wonder....ONS
--Tony.

That can be read from the books <laugh> - like how Ramana was
self-realized when undergoing a death-experience - not by practices or
so. And then, the Kathopanishad - a bard's story on a death experience.
And of course there are many more such examples - because realizing
"who you are" doesn't depend on anything. When giving up everything
like I did, that will be perfectly clear - for a family-man like you,
never, not even intellectually :)

--Jan

you say that realizing "who you are" does not depend on anything, ºyet
you seem to also be saying that it does depend on not being a º
family-man. What am i missing here? º ºAll are blessed
--justthis

A family-man isn't likely to give up family - in the mind that is. And
apart from that, there's a big difference between (pre) Vedic family
life and that of the 21st century... So you aren't missing anything - I
have yet to meet the fist individual to even give up petty ideas - let
alone a family-man give up (all the fruits of) family-life.

Jan


ºOne doesn't have to give up a family. There is a difference between
ºattachment and love. Also as all is one, nothing is given up!!
--Tony

So you didn't even give up attachment?
I gave up life and that was not just a thought - but the body
is rather strong so survived with an "inhabitant" contemplating
how a "dead one" had to continue a life that was supposed to
have ended.
--Jan

ºI have been forced in the past to give up due to deaths,( a wife and a
ºchild), which taught me a lot.
--Tony

My parents lost a son but it only taught them they had been terrible
parents
and they never came over it. To me it taught that in this era, people
cannot
communicate well anymore, without recovering that skill though - no need

for a solitary hermit.
--Jan

ºI have a question for your Jan. Does your nonduality extend beyond the
ºGoddess Energy/Saguna Brahman to the Nirguna Brahman?
--Tony

What possibly could I say to that Tony? Either you believe or don't -
and (dis)belief always adds to conditioning. In that respect, a
"yes" would be just as "bad" as a "no" :)

Jan
________________________________________________________________________

Jerry

Once I got over the technical and informational fascination with the
internet, it became pretty obvious that nobody was home. Or if they
were home, they weren't coming out of their houses. Websites are
mostly empty, lonely places.

One of the great exceptions to that is Live Journal:
<http://www.livejournal.com>. It's run by a 21 year old guy and a few
friends. The have over a hundred thousand members I believe. It's
free, except that a person can get a paid account if they want a few
extra features and wish to support the work. When the list owner put
out the word that he needed to buy a new server, he got the funds for
it in short order and after the needed money arrived he told people
to stop donating and wouldn't accept anymore. But is all that goes on
at Live Journal, 'real community'?

_____________________________________________________________________________

Hobbes

I know you are out here somewhere....

The appetizers sucked eh? I don't know what I was thinking... next time
I shall make the appetizers myself... and buy plum sauce for the spring
rolls... I must have been distracted by the circling eagle overhead.
:o)

Truely blessed are those that maintain the dignity and provide a
foundation for accomplishment for others that have been deemed
unnecessary, in the way, not worthy of opinion and have become the
focus of our ugliness and dumping ground of blame.

No signals side-co suit... I want the your words and in return, my own.

<Triangle solo begins here:>

What I am saying is that I shall wait to the end (Tick. Tock. Tick),
and when everyone is nice-nice and comfy-cozy saying to all their
friends:

"Look at us. Look how comfy and cozy we have become at the expense of
our Lord and Savior's reign (which is for all people and not the so
called 'saved'!"

...<like a word like 'saved, choosen, elite, whatever should have been
placed in the minds of humans which would only be foolish enough to
apply it to some things and not all things sheesshhh>...

...it shall be 'about then' that I shall change my mind (Left. Right.
Left.) and only those things that were honestly come by will remain...
for some, nothing will change... for others however...

...well look at it this way: You must be one of 'my students', one of
'their masters' and 'your very own personal fool' to understand
'theWord' that I am saying but anyone and everyone will have the
hardcore realization whether consciously or otherwise that Tao must
respond to the absolute principle(s) that govern all things and, as
such, only works for theOne that knows it's name not.

I am that and your belief is not necessary but you may use your words
to your own fate... or destiny whatever....

Jesus Christ

The only standard you need live up to is your own and then from there
the 'rest' is up to you.

Buddha: Do dreams come true?

Jesus: They do say that don't they.

B: I wish.

J: -

B: -

<ps... ever wonder how long a silence ' - ' is?

--hobbes

Is a black swan an albino?

______________________________________________________________________

Jerry

Computers can be used to bring people together in person. That's
something I'm working to further develop and almost ready to unveil my
new website look, which supports that interest. And where solitude is
really the main thing, the computer keeps a person connected, if and
when they want that connection.

Mira

If not for the internet, (what? if not for the NDS!!!), Mark and I
would never have met in person. The initial contact a person makes with
another over the internet bypasses a lot of 'unnecessary' etiquette,
and if the interest is there, discussions can become very deep in a
relatively short period of time. The absence of physical presence
allows for the mind to penetrate into profound issues unhindered by
shyness or appearances. This kind of close contact can then evolve into
an actual personal meeting. However, there are no guarantees that such
meeting will be of the same quality as the initial contact over the
internet. Sometimes these meetings can be really disenchanting; though
I admit that it my case such meeting has led to marriage :-) Internet
contacts can fill up a certain need for communication that is not being
met within the circle of personal friendships that a person has. Not
always does this need for communication include a need for personal
contact though! Internet friendships are relatively 'free'; not really
bound by social conduct or responsibilities for they do not take place
within a controlled social environment where rules of conduct apply.
Some people simply prefer that kind of freedom, thus also avoiding the
opportunity to make a real personal commitment and benefit from a
relationship beyond the mainly mental realm of the internet.

____________________________________________________________________

Jody
Nonduality is only Nirguna Brahman. There is no "where" for nonduality
to extend to as it "encompasses" all.

We are all Nirguna Brahman, and Nirguna Brahman is all there is to
Nirguna Brahman. However, you are apparently Tony, and just because
your mind is infected with a mental concept of oneness doesn't mean you
are qualified to be an arbiter of realization.

Put another way, nondual thinking is not nondual experience. In fact,
nondual thinking is a tremendous hindrance to the dawning of nondual
experience. That is, your nondualthink is keeping you from nondual
realization.

________________________________________________________________________

Namaste,
However the energy and the Saguna Goddess that project it are also
ultimately illusions and dual.....ONS --Tony

Namaste Tony,
Seeing it AS dual is the illusion. It is only "our perception" that
sees the snake superimposed on the reality of the rope. What about the
"all is Brahman" understanding of this, Tony? Can you see how saying it
is illusory refers to our mistaken way of perceiving separation when
there is none in actuality? --Glo

______________________________________________________________________

by "giving up" you mean no longer being attached to? The form of
ones life may not change much but the connection to it does.

All are blessed
justthis

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