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Saturday, May 5, 2001

Jerry:
One good thing about Yahoo is that you can search all the
messages ever posted to this list. Just go to
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NondualitySalon/messages>
and enter your keywords into the search engine. You'll get 30
relevant posts per page, or less. Be sure to click on the
'next' button.

Use combinations of words, or one word or name,
if you think you won't get an overwhelming number
of responses. It returns results in an odd way and is
not always accurate. To get a feel for its oddness try
entering 'carlos dwa melody'. And be sure to keep
clicking the 'next' button.

With its limitations, the search engine is the only way
to hone in on information stored within some 54000 messages.
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Michael R
Listen to the Mantra, the Great, Mysterious Mantra:
Gate, gate, paragate, bodhi, svaha!
Gone, gone, gone to that other shore;
safely passed to that other shore,
O Prajna-paramita! So may it be.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

A Speck of Dust

Conciousness pure and vast
This is all that I am.
Only this is permanent.
Nothing else will last.

You or I what are we?
This conciousness
Creates all things.
What else is there?

Sweeheart, is there something wrong?
Why build a house of cards
From your hopes and fears?
Have you forgotten who you are?

Give yourself over to weeping!
Give yourself over to laughter!
All creation is yours!
Stop pretending you are a speck of dust!
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Gracie:
It seems i have a new friend,
He visits me each night.
He sends to me a beautiful song,
floating on the wind.

I never get to see him,
He always hides so well.
He's in a tree, of this i'm sure,
but the direction, i cant tell.

So i just sit and listen,
and accept his gift to me,
From the little whipperwil
that i never get to see.
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Gracie:
It seems there has been some curiosity as well as
acceptance for native traditions. Due to this i have
decided to share our most modern of concepts.
through this we hope to survive as a people.

It was decided many years ago that we could not
defeat the Whites. there were too many, and in
some ways they were more advanced. We
know that it is true of all people that there are good
and bad in every culture. Not all that the Whites
brought here was bad, nor was all of it good, so it was
decided that we must walk in two worlds.
It was decided that we should take the good from their culture,
while leaving them their vices, and hold also our own ways
so we dont forget who we are. There were many among
us who thought this was a mistake. They thought we would
become so entangled with the "things" that the Whites had
to offer that we would become ashamed of ourselves, our
heritage, our people, and for some it is this way.
Some get lost in the vices that are so readily available, and we
never get them back. For this there is always great sadness, but to
cling entirely to the old ways, excluding everything modern, would be
the death chant for my people. In this, the Elders of so long ago
were right. We are no longer a hunter/gatherer/ warrior society.
that time has passed. So to ensure the survival of our people, we
are taught to keep one foot in the modern world, learn to travel
among them with ease and work beside them in harmony but hold also
the other foot on the path of our grandfathers; realizing that they
gave up their lives in many cases to allow us to live. For this we
owe them always honor and respect. I teach this to my children and
hope they are not eventually lost. My daughter, when she was 7
spoke before a gathering or our people. It is considered a good
thing here to engage in oration. This is what she said:
"When Grandfather brought us here, he could not know how things would
change. that one day we would wear their clothes, speak their
language, and go to their schools.Only once a year can grandfather
recognize his children, and we hide with our drugs and beer, but
not me. I will dance for you, I will listen to your stories, and
the smile on your face will be the warm sun on mine."
I dont think many restrained their tears, and from her it was even
more touching as she has Cerebral Palsey and has not always found
dancing to be easy. Here she is accepted and loved. It is not
always the case outside "indian country". So we do try to find our
way among the others, sometimes it just isnt as easy as it seems.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
CyberDervish:
Anybody on this list has experience in Vipassana Meditation?
What does the author mean below ... "mental vacuum ...
state like dreamless sleep is to
be avoided???"

A whole book: wonderful, easy to understand, written by
a master, on Mindfulness and Vipassana Meditation
[Mindfulness in Plain English by Ven. Henepola Gunaratana.]
is download able free here:
http://www.realization.org/home.htm
http://www.realization.org/page/namedoc0/mipe/mipe_0.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Manuel:
On the surface it seems unacceptable that one's efforts to
understand and realize the Truth cannot be successful
without the help and grace of someone else, namely the guru.
But this is because the seeker regards himself as a
separate, autonomous individual and the guru as another
individual with a similarly separate existence. As long as
this attitude prevails, however, whatever else one does to
attain liberation will not only be utterly useless
but will result in a tightening of one's bondage. Why so?
Because what one thinks one is as an independent entity
is actually nothing but a fleeting shadow in the imaginations.
So long as there is a "me" thinking and reacting as an entity,
the seeker will continue going around and around like
a dog chasing his tail and remain inaccessible to the help
or grace of the guru.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Self-realization is not only effortless, it is effortlessness itself.
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--
Tim:
The miracle is that in the absence of meaning is "Meaning."

To the mind, the statement "nothing has or lacks meaning" appears
dry, dull and empty... but the actual case upon 'realizing' this is
paradoxically: *Meaning Itself*. Blessings showering everywhere!

It was always the attempt to give meaning that seems to "prevent"
or "block" Meaning...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan and Gill:
>Hi Dan
>
>What is beyond love?
>
>Love, Gill


Hi Gill --

That which allows
love to be love.

Love, Dan
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Dan and Gloria:

Of course, you're speaking for Glo, not Dan.
I know that.

And what you're saying rings loud and clear,
stated with precision and clarity.

You hit on an important point with what you
said about reinforcing the message of
the abuser by identifying with being
non-feeling. There can also be
identification with "having non-dual
awareness" leading to supression
of emotions and relationship patterns
not wanting to be acknowledged,
being messy ... The nondual self
then pushes away and rejects
the dual self, by saying it doesn't
exist, or has no meaning because
not identified with -- and a split is maintained.

Thanks Dan, I feel heard as well. If I
may resonate some more on the issue of
the split you brought up, there seem to
be lots of implications and questions
raised by maintaining that split. When
"the sage" appears invulnerable to the
messiness of being human, sagehood may
look like an easy out, or all life and
relationship problems are written off as
irrelevant to "real spirituality".
Granted that "having non-dual awareness"
can be extremely transformative of
personality and whatever other issues
may arise from one's life experience
and conditioning. Transcendence is not
about being in resistance to what is
"here now". Thus even relationship or
communication difficulties or issues
might be worth paying some attention
to. How do you think a nondual perspective
can contribute or be helpful to the
looking into process?

What else would you say might contribute
to healing this split? I have heard
this split you described as something
like taking a spiritual bypass. Jack
Kornfield is a well-known example of
someone who after years of spiritual
practice decided he wanted to do therapy
to address some personality and
relationship issues. These are not
mutually exclusive processes. In fact
the spiritual practice was largely
what enabled him to see the need for
the other. If therapy supports healing
this split or contributes to removing
obstacles to clear seeing, then this
too is acceptance rather than resistance
of "what is here now". With the problem
arises the solution, not with being in
resistance as a way to avoid seeing it.
Denial is a short term strategy that
cannot work in the long run, as inevitably
issues will surface again thru similar
life situations. How to balance a
willingness to look at emotions and
relationship with change as a possibility
issues with a reasonably healthy
self-acceptance, warts and all, is another
concern.

Once having said all this, a tendency to
over-idealize or set perfectionistic
ideals that define "the nondual self"
is a red flag, at least to me it is.
Definition is (by definition)
identification. And a list sets
requirements to be met. What is
being dis-identified with in these
standards is thereby excluded, setting
up restrictions. This reminds me of that
funny list Greg has describing the EO
(enlightened one) in such contradictory
terms. Again, don't identifiable behaviors
require an identified self? Descriptions
like Ed's of flow are like the way the Tao
is written about, loosely evocative seem
better. Ha! here I am telling the master
of such writing...

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