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Saturday, April 28, 2001


Jerry:
some interesting websites:

http://www.silkentiger.com

http://www.colinperini.com/truth1.htm

http://www.ods.nl/ikben/gb
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Gracie:
I am a member of the Waccamaw Siouan tribe in North Carolina. We are
small, and have only about 2500 to 3000 members. We are a bit unique
for our state in that we have no blood ancestral ties to the many
other tribes here. We are related to the Sioux in the dakotas,
Siouan is the language my people once spoke, and it is a derivative
of the Sioux, we are cousins. The others here are of Iriquois and
Algonquin descent so their language was very different. Just as a
side bar that many do not know, North Carolina has the largest
Native population east of the mississippi, and we are quite active,
and well known in what we refer to as "Indian Country". The south
american indians come here to a local pow wow every year and play for
us as a live band, it is beautiful music, and they are accepted as
one of the people as is only fit and proper. I dont know where you
are located, but the Pow wow invite is an open one to any who care
to come.
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James:
If 'you' ask 'Who am I' and 'you' get an answer, 'you' can
be certain that it is false. If 'you' answer the question the inquiry
has ceased (the 'answer' is in the question).

The 'answer' flowers in 'your' absence.
It is the 'Intelligence of Innocence'.

This 'answer' is an understanding or 'the peace beyond all
understanding' and it is unquestionable.

Tim:
Thanks James, beautifully stated.

The 'final conclusion' to "Who am I?" is either "I AM" (in the sense
of consciousness only) or "I Am Not" (in the sense of ego). Same
difference -- and the possibility exists for yet another 'step'
beyond this, too -- "There is only Understanding" (substitute
whatever word for "Understanding"). Of course this Understanding
is 'beyond the mind'.

Yes, it is unquestionable. There is an absolute 'sureness' about it,
and i don't think justthis would have the slightest 'issue' with it
if he would stop 'future tripping' about what it might be like :=).

'It' is available 'here' and 'now', 'this instant'.
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What Does This "Really" Mean?

Michael J:
The Gospel of Thomas
Translated by Stephen Patterson and Marvin Meyer

55. Jesus said, "Whoever does not hate father and mother cannot be
my disciple, and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry
the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."


Tim:
"Hate" must be mistranslated. "Attachment" might be a better term,
or it points to "attachment to birth and/or the body." Yet, it is a
very radical statement. It points to 'radical unattachment'. Jesus
was a rebel (not a good or bad thing, that was his message).

> and whoever does not hate brothers and sisters, and carry
> the cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."

Again, this is a sort of 'renounce the world' statement, but not
renounce as in abandon, but renounce all attachments to it. "Carry
the cross" seems to point to the same thing as the concept of the
Buddhist Bodhisattva.


Gill E:
Tim has already addressed it well, and 'hate' is sometimes translated
as 'set aside'. Set aside our worldly attachments and 'carry the cross'.
The cross is the burden of working bodhisattva like as Tim pointed
out, and the burden is no real burden. Saying 90:

90. Jesus said, "Come to me, for my yoke is comfortable and my
lordship is gentle, and you will find rest for yourselves."
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Michael J found a group

"We have been developing this site for some months
And now would be a good time to introduce it
The main goal "harmony"
Please feel free to join
http://communities.msn.com/SpiritualTeachers

only two Requests
No Advertising…
Advertisers will be sent into cyber space "one way ticket"
Allow every body has the right to their belief please respect it

Warning
If you are religiously sensitive and not able to tolerate open
discussion
Please "stay at home" "
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--

Tim:
Dear Dan et al.,

To climb up the mountain is to climb down.
To climb down the mountain is to go nowhere.
To go nowhere is to understand there is nowhere to go.
To understand there is nowhere to go is to stop climbing down.
To stop climbing down is to be at the top of the mountain.


Dan:
Dear Tim -

The view with no edges,
allows all edges to join
with no separation.
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Gloria:
Stanley Sobbatka's Course in Consciousness is a great
resource, known for the clarity of his explanations. While
his website has been mentioned before, some new material
has been added recently to part 3, some in the past couple
of days. Just scroll down the left side bar to reach part 3.

http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
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Jan:
Why the "teaching frenzy" after apperception? Here are
a few reasons...

1. filling Emptiness with the presence of others despite
being taught that there are none
2. making money directly out of nothingness
3. lecturing what would benefit the lecturer most but
doesn't have time for due to the busy schedule
4. running after the liberated whims of the now
enlightened mind
5. fulfilling the desire to travel
6. just for the fun of it
7. because only I know the truth best
8. because my master/guru told me so and only
(s)he knows the truth best
9. and I want to have a meaningful life too
10. only God knows that
11. the perspective from a pedestal is always better
12. all of the above and even some more
13. none of the above and even some less

Joy, laughter and humor,
------------------------------------------------------------
Fundamentals of Kundalini Yoga
offered by:
Pieter Schoonheim Samara

http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/umbada/pieter11.htm
------------------------------------------------------------
New File Upload:

Jan:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NondualitySalon/files/Papalagi.rtf

One of the Stories:
The severe disease of thinking

Introduction by Erich Scheurmann

(I [Jan] translated some excerpts from German into English)

The lectures of Samoan chief Tuiavii from Tiavea to the members of his tribe

When the word "spirit" enters the mouth of a Papalagi,
his eyes grow big, round and fixated; he raises his
himself, starts breathing heavily and stretches himself
like a warrior who has slain the enemy. Because this
'spirit' is something he is particularly pride on. We aren't
speaking from the vast, powerful Spirit, which the missionary
calls "God", from Whom we are but a needy image, but
from the little Spirit, belonging to man, who is creating
his thoughts. When I'm looking from here at the mango
tree behind the church, that isn't Spirit, because I only
see it. But when I recognize that he is bigger than the
church from the mission, well, that has to be Spirit. So
I just don't have to see something, but I have to know
something as well. This knowing is what the Papalagi is
practicing from sunrise to sunset. His spirit is always like
a filled gun or like an ever active fishing rod. Therefore
he pities our people of the many islands, because we
aren't practicing this knowing. We are poor spirits and
dumb like a wild animal.

It may be true, we are little practicing this knowing,
what the Papalagi is calling 'thinking'. But the question
is, which one is dumb; the one thinking little or the one
thinking too much. The Papalagi is thinking continuously:
"my hut is smaller than the palm tree, the palm tree is
bowing from the storm, the storm is speaking with a loud
voice." That is the way of his thinking, be it in his way of
course. But he is thinking about himself too: "I am small.
My heart always rejoices when seeing a girl. How I love it
to go to Malaga." And so on...

That is merry and good and may have many hidden uses for
the one, loving this game in his head. But the Papalagi is thinking
so much, that thinking became a habit, necessity, even a
compulsion. Ever he has to think. Only with great difficulty,
he manages not to think, and to live with his entire body.
Often, he is living just with his head, while all senses are
completely dormant, although he is going, speaking, eating
and laughing. The thinking process, the thoughts - these are
the fruits of thinking - keep him imprisoned. It is a kind of i
ntoxication from his own thoughts. When the sun is shining
beautifully, he is thinking immediately: "how beautifully it is
shining!" Always he thinks: "how beautifully it is shining at
this moment." That is wrong, fundamentally wrong and foolish.
Because it is better, not to think at all, when it is shining. An
intelligent Samoan stretches his limbs in the warm light and
doesn't think at it. He doesn't absorb the sun just with his head,
but also with hands, feet, thighs, stomach, with all limbs. He
lets his skin and limbs think for themselves, and certainly are
they thinking, be it different than the head. For the Papalagi
however, thinking is in many ways like a big chunk of lava he
can't get out of the way. He is thinking in a merry way but
doesn't laugh; he is thinking sadly but doesn't cry. He is hungry
but doesn't take Taro or Palusami. Mostly he is a man, whose
senses are living in hostility with his spirit; a man, split in two.
The life of a Papalagi resembles in many ways to a man, making
a journey by boat to Savaii and, leaving the shore, immediately
thinks: "How long will it take before I arrive at Savaii?" He is
thinking, but doesn't see the pleasant scenery through which
the journey is going. Soon, at the left bank, he sees a mountain
ridge. As soon as his eyes capture it, he can't get away from it:
"What could be behind the mountain? Is it a deep or a narrow
bay?" By thinking in such a way, he forgets to sing along with
the youngsters, he doesn't hear the merry jokes of the young
women. Hardly the boat is lying in the bay behind the mountain
ridge or he is tortured with a new thought, if a storm will start
before the evening. Yes, if a storm will be coming. At a clear sky
he is looking for dark clouds. He is ever thinking of the storm
that possibly could arrive. The storm doesn't come, and he arrives
at Savaii in the evening, unharmed. But now it is to him, as if he
didn't undertake the journey at all, because always his thoughts
were far from his body and outside of the boat. He could have
stayed in his hut in Upolu just as well.

A spirit however, torturing us that way, is a devil and I don't
understand why so many are loving it. The Papalagi loves and
honors his spirit and feeds his spirit with thoughts from his
head. He never lets it fast, but at the same time he isn't
troubled when the thoughts are mutually feeding on each
other. He makes a lot of noise with his thoughts and allows
them to be loud as uneducated kids. He behaves as if his
thoughts were as exquisite as flowers, mountains and woods. [...]
He behaves, as if there would be a command that man has to
think much. Yes, that this command would be from God. But
when the palm trees and the mountains are thinking, they don't
make such a noise with it. And certainly, if the palm trees
would think as loudly and wild as the Papalagi, they wouldn't
have beautiful green leaves and golden fruits. (Because it is
firm experience, that thinking accelerates aging and makes ugly).
They would fall (from the tree) before they would be ripe.
However, it is more probable that they are thinking very little.

This thinking should make the mind great and high. If
someone is thinking much and fast, in Europe they say
such a one is a great mind. Instead of having compassion
with such great minds, they are extraordinarily honored.
The villages make them to their chiefs, and wherever a
great mind comes, he has to think publicly what to all
affords pleasure and is admired a lot. When a great
mind dies, there is grieving in the entire country and
a lot of wailing for what has been lost. An image of
such a great mind is made in natural stone and installed
before all eyes at the market place. Yes, these heads of
stone are made much bigger than they were in life, so
that the peope really admires them and can reflect on
the own little mind.

If one asks a Papalagi: why do you think so much? he
answers: because I don't want and am not allowed to
stay stupid. Worthless , every Papalagi who doesn't
think; although essentially he is prudent, he he doesn't
think much and yet finds his way. However I think, this
is just a pretext and the Papalagi just goes after his
urge. That the real purpose of his thinking is, to find
out the forces of the great Spirit. An occupation, he himself
calls eloquently "acknowledge". Acknowledge, that means
to have a thing so clearly before one's eyes, that one is
touching it with the nose, yes is piercing it. This piercing
and ransacking is a tastless and contemptible desire of
the Papalagi. He takes a centipede, pierces it with a little
spear and tears a leg away. How does such a leg, separated
from the body, look like? How was it fixed to the body?
he breaks the leg in order to measure the thikness. That is
important, is essential. He removes a splinter the size of
a grain of sand from the leg and lays it under a long tube
with a secret force enabling the eyes to see much more
sharply. With this big and strong eye he ransacks
everything, your tears, a shred of the skin, a hair, everything
and everything. He divides all these things, until he arrives
at a point, where there remains nothing to break or to
divide. Although this point is the smallest of the smallest,
it is anyhow the most essential, because it is the entrance,
only the great Spirit does possess. This entry is also
denied to the Papalagi, and his best sorceries still haven't
revealed it yet. The great Spirit doesn't have its secrets
taken away. Never. Never did anyone climb a palm tree,
higher than that palm tree his legs surrounded. At the
crown he has to turn; the trunk would fail to climb higher.
The great Spirit doesn't love the curiosity of mankind,
therefore he has put big lianas that are without beginning
and end. Therefore anyone, investigating all thou

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