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Wednesday, May 2


MICHAEL JOHNSON

The seeking to be free is the beast that must be killed. When it is
understand that all there is is what is as it is, freedom from
suffering drops.

For "me" there is both liberation and contraction which means I am
still a prisoner of my own thoughts and yet there is understanding that
even that is absolutely appropriate for the awakening of this
body/mind.

__________________________________________________________________

OMKARA

"Feelings are here now, as they arise, like anything. There is nowhere
else."

Sure... this is how "everyone experiences," although many are not aware
of it, and "attach" feelings to an identity... a tangled confusion of
'stuff'.

'As seen here', the basic issue seems to be 'self-image'. There's a
crystallized idea "this is who I am," kept 'in thought' all the time
(in the 'subconscious' maybe?) and of course, what else is the 'cause'
or 'root factor' behind wars, arguments, reactions, hurt feelings,
grudges, extended anger and so on.

------------

Pain seems like an 'interesting' item as applied to 'realization' -- a
specific example being the case of Nisargadatta Maharaj: The pain from
the cancer at the end of his life seemed to act as a 'nudge' to further
understanding regarding the body, and he stated something like this:

"Before the illness there was the idea that reality was expressing
through a particular form, but the pain of this illness has made clear
that the body is completely illusory, and there is now perceived only
the consciousness expressing through millions of forms."

Something like that, but to read it was a surprise. All speculation,
but it seemed like an honest 'confession' as presented, so perhaps
there are some implications as to how 'final' the commonly assumed
'final realization' is with the "recognized sages."

________________________________________________________________________________

JB789

Yesterday, I somehow stumbled into this question/seeing..: I've done a
lot of ('spiritual') things.. but I have never looked into what the
motivational first-step (the seeking) that I've been unconsciously
practicing, is all about ?.. .. seen the idea of
me-moving-thru-time-towards-some-destination.. destination/goal-Image
defined by thought out of all that's been read/heard.. using desire for
the 'some-thing-Else' to end the suffering & conflict brought by the
desire for something-ELSE (if one is spiritual minded) or just 'wordly'
somethingS-else. Smelled bad ! A release/relief was felt,.. I was
'here' and there was Life.

My insights do not seem to last,.. so I do not know if I'll be living
it also next minute.. but there it is.

You might have heard someone talk about the fallacy of seeking, and
perhaps, it has become your point of view. And so, it might be good to
look again. Are you seeking ? If so, what.. and what do you see in this
process of seeking ? For a long time there was confusion here as to
what 'ego' or "I" was or wasn't... eventually it was discovered as no
more or less than 'self-image' (the plain ol' common definition).

Alot of 'feelings' simply don't arise in the absence of a 'self image'.
They aren't necessary -- no 'bubble' to defend or coddle, no 'set
personality' to (consciously or unconsciously) "protect and defend."

_________________________________________________________________________

ANDREW MACNAB

One could be insensitive to one's own hurt feelings, or denying them
because they don't fit the image of the E.O. that one believes oneself
to be. A lack of interest in tests might be a better indicator. Who is
looking for confirmation? "Don't be deluded, don't be deluded..." the
old zen monk kept repeating to himself.

...

The presence or absence of feelings of fear or hurt or anger or joy or
whatever in no way indicates the presence or absence of one who feels.
The idea that if there is a feeling there must be one who feels is a
basic form of the false inference that is at the bottom of all
dualistic thinking.

...

Just as the arising of thoughts doesn't necessarily mean there is an
identity that thinks them, so with feelings; there's no essential
difference. 'Your' feelings are not yours, any more than 'your'
thoughts are. Now they are here... now they are not here. They have no
owner.

____________________________________________________________________

DAN BERKOW RESPONDS TO MICHAEL JOHNSON

>What message do you give when
>speaking about nonduality in relation
>to lives of persons and in relation to
>therapy?

In relation to lives of persons, it is
spontaneous awareness in which
the momentary nature of perception
is clear. That the perceiver arises
with and as perception. That life
arises as a totality-unsplit-whole.

In relation to therapy, I speak to
the nonseparation of therapist
and client, the nondoing of
therapy -- there is no one there
to do anything to or to do something
to or for someone. I speak to
the use of intuition in therapy
and "opening" of intuition that
can be facilitated in/through
therapy.


>This seems to me to be an area where
>nonduality concepts could really help
>people, maybe not awaken, but live more
>peaceful lives, and who knows what might
>happen next?

Yes. Acceptance is involved in many
psychological problems -- self-rejection,
anxiety about anticipated outcomes,
rigidly closing to experiential learning
that was painful or hurtful ...

Awakening can not be made to happen
or forced. Therapy isn't to make something
happen for someone, it is to address them
"where they're at", with the world-view
and problems in living they perceive and
experience themselves to be dealing with.
Therapy assists the unfolding of life
as learning/opening, isn't to teach
truisms such as the nature of awakening,
etc., in my opinion.

_________________________________________________________________________

WHITE WOLFE

dear members....white wolfe will be retreating into the shadows again
for a while and merely enjoy the dance of words and ideas here from a
distance....from the time i was a boy (about 5) until about the time i
became a man (about 30), i wrote poetry about the relationship between
"nothingness and love and peace and new beginnings"....at that point in
time i stopped writing because i felt i had run out of new things to
say to myself ...about a year ago i found that at mid-life (45) i had
more to say.....now, once again i find i have nothing more to say about
nothing other than that, for me, conceptual non-duality must be
grounded in non-dual love, that is it must be a true marriage between
transient love and higher love....the poem that follows celebrates the
awakening, the enlightenment, the stillness, the silence that such a
marriage and such love is bringing into my life....^^~~~~

(editor's note: the following is a fragment of a long poem)

A May Day (the circle is complete non-sense) Epithalamion

(to Mira)

Come, join the beloved’s poet….
the circle complete is the complete circle
so join the circle, dance, laugh and sing

the way know,
the circle complete,
know the way,

the beloved is the way,
the circle complete,
the way is the beloved

you are the beloved’s lover,
beloved,
the beloved’s lover are you

_________________________________________________________________________

SARLO AND HARSHA

SARLO:
"I may not know who i am but i can be sure of one thing, THAT I AM, so
i just have to keep asking who i am (or where or why or wha for that
matter)." The difficulty is that i am not sure and cannot be sure that
i indeed am. My one sure point of reference is that i do not know. This
"sure point of reference" may seem pretty insecure but what's wrong
with it? I am bolstered in this safe port in the ontological storm by
seeing everywhere people claiming to know, their knowing apparently
being very attractive to seekers mired in the metaphysical swamps, who
want some assurance about something, excuse the mixed metaphors. Their
knowing could well be the truth, or at least their truth, so great!,
but oftentimes it's not. Looked at from a different point of view, not
knowing can be quite positive. It is wonder, awe, mystery. Not knowing
is no impediment to acting decisively when that is needed. And the
beauty: not knowing is easy and fun and you can do it in your spare
time at home.

_________________________________________________


HARSHA:
Beautiful, Sarlo! Perhaps it is this fog of "unknowing" that one must
intuit clearly and hold onto. It can bring the existential sorrow and
universal tears to some. It can bring one to his/her knees as the
ontological storms appear to rage on all sides. One has to learn to
live with it, I believe, on some paths at least. Gradually and slowly
and carefully and mindfully one travels this road which leads nowhere
really, because where can any road go. Just to another destination. And
then what? Where does one go then? But perhaps this metaphysical
loneliness when carried to the extreme allows the surrender to take
place. A weary and a tired traveler is ultimately left without a
choice. Perhaps it is the preface to recognizing Grace and that Supreme
Aloneness that is Whole and One, and THAT I AM.

_______________________________________________________________________

JAN BARENDRECHT

Words are crystallized thoughts and so is the moon. Not two but one :)
But for some creatures, words are pictures, sounds or smells... A
matter of perspective - the human perspective is but one out of an
infinity.


...

From experience ;) I know this: suffering could be called the mental
frenzy "accompanying" pain. When that is "history", pain is felt "as
is", without any thoughts about it. That still doesn't make it
pleasant. But the "root" is taken out of it - one couldn't even
complain, irrespective the intensity of pain. And gradually, that
becomes "history" too - pain as if drowning.. Drowning in " ".

...

I'm not surprised at all - it is possible to be functioning optimally
as a householder, endowed with full self-knowledge. What then
"separates", is the functioning "human interface" although that
functioning and the veiling properties are fully known. That veil will
dissolve simultaneously with the body.

_______________________________________________________________________

ED ARRONS



"At the heart of each of us, whatever our imperfections, there exists a
silent pulse of perfect rhythm, a complex of wave forms and resonances,

which is absolutely individual and unique, and yet which connects us to
everything in the universe. The act of getting in touch with this pulse
can transform our personal experience and in some way alter the world
around us."

-- George Leonard, The Silent Pulse, p. xii

I like the theme of this quote, but have a different understanding of
the nature of the "silent pulse" and where the "uniqueness" lies.

I see the "pulse" as being a "spark" of Pure Awareness from the "Fire"
that is both the One Self and the body/mind Creator/Connector. (Love)

I see the uniqueness arising from one's particular conditioning and
from the particular way by which the conditioning may be undone
-through conscious practice or by the non-conscious opening to grace.

The unique practice or openness to grace aligns the same Realization
"mechanism" which converts the conditioned body/mind "me" to the
Radiant Self.

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