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Thursday April 5th


>Enlightenment is not as precise a term as Realization for the most
>precious experience. The light is always here, now. At one point in
>the eternal present, This is realized.
>
>Kir Li Molari

The timeless light is itself
realization, which is not
an event, but a nonmoving
infinite movement: all
events, the nowness of
all events, the timing of
all times, the source of all
events, the end of all events.

Everything is realized from before
any beginning, which is why
anything and everything can
ever appear as anything at all.

Thus, there has never been any
separate entity which needs
any realization, or which
realizes something at a
point of time.

Apparently separated points of
time are "swimming in an ocean"
of timelessness.

Thus, all points of time are timeless.
Thus, all apparent beings "in time",
aren't "really there" as separable
beings.

"Realization" is not an event or happening,
is only "what is", is all apparent time moments
simultaneously and timelessly, attachment
to none and no-thing, and no separable
entity ever having been there to realize
or not realize.

-- Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Sri Dan,
Time out! Many Zen Masters and others have detailed
their experience of Realization, actually citing a date
and time. "You" Realized all of This at one point in time.
Before then, you were unrealized.

(medit8@meditationsociety.com)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Yes. Excellent and important point -- yet
no "before", no "after" --

What was/is realized is that realization
never was nor could be absent,
as "is" is no it, no then --
only "now" -- every, any, all "now"
as "now-ing" of all "nows",
as "nothingness" of all appearances ...

And ... what is described is an experience
remembered and expressed to an audience -
an important "turning point" for a conceptual
entity - a moment in which conceptualizable
experience and nonconceptualizable
nothingness were/are one.

And the description given, the describer,
the memory, the audience -- all
were/are "there" in/as this "moment".

What then is the nature of "this moment"?
Of necessity it is beyond experience,
description, memory, teachers or
students ... the "absolute presence"
which allows Zen teacher, audience,
speaking, hearing to occur -- in,
of, and through which each appears as they are --
perfectly in place as is ...

That presence has no favorites, isn't any more
in the Zen teacher and his memory, story
and experience, than any of the listeners,
or any of the rocks, grass, and space
between.

Realization as an experience
that occurred to an entity in the past
is like any experience of the past,
remembered, construed, offered
for consumption of others.

In other words: a conceptual entity
offers an expressed concept of
an experience to other conceptual
entities to read meaning into,
seek after, believe in, etc.

Thus, statues of Buddha, chants,
prayers, texts -- all now become
conceptually possible and conceptually
important.

What is beyond the concept, beyond
the construal, untouched by memory,
untouched by any entity claiming
an experience?

That "What" is even beyond any concepts
associated with realization and
experiences of realization.

Love,
Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Doc Hobbes:


But words in the lips of those that know them are as precious as the single
drop that ripples the pool and propels our imagination into another few who
will succeed us.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


And words are drops of time,
sipped by connoisseurs who
relish infinity, knowing
"those who succeed"
as a single ray of
timeless light.

Absorbing the moonlight,
a flounder and two
lidless eyes
saw nothing but "up" ...
-- NaMaste

____________________________________________________________________


Hi Mark,

You wrote:

> Most of us are just plain crude about it, so hopefully it's obvious that
> we are hoodlums. I am well aware that I am a real creep much of the
> time. I judge just about everything. And then I judge the judging and
> punish the judger, which fuels the whole game as near as I can tell.

Could I sign my name here? I could have written this :)

> Dies anyone else see that behavior in themselves, or are you all saints
> (or all blind?) I think there are some saints here, but i doubt that
> they will be insulted by this rant. If you are, perhaps it's a
> worthwhile enquiry.

You also wrote in another post:

I mainly post about things that are important to
me and I often get no responses, which is fine - that means to me that
it wasn't so interesting to others. I usually let those topics drop
(eventually anyway)

Actually it is not true that when you get no responses it wasn't interesting
to others. I usually, for different reasons, don't comment/add to the posts
that are most important for me. But they stay with me and "do the job". All
of your sharings count here. The work you do help me notice what I haven't or
name what I have known. They enable simply to see more. Not to mention that
the place they are spoken from is the only level worth communication, imo.
Unfortunately, I usually more take than give here which bothers me a little
recently.
But wanted to let you know how much it matters.

Love,
Liliana

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


i feel the same, liliana. i usually don't know how to respond to
posts so i stay silent. i'm more in tune to presence. i guess that's
why i emphasize in-person meetings. and then the occasional letter
comes from someone i'd never heard of, who says they follow one list
or another, one person or another, and they are grateful yet never
heard from.

jerry

____________________________________________________________________



While self-improvement is a worthwhile thing for every individual,
it's not essential. What is essential is intimacy with the knowing
that what is being improved upon can more easily be let go, and that
letting go happens by itself when one attends to Grace or the Self.

A person can work through one's conditionings or forget them and
attend to Grace. Often teachers love to emphasize the work on one's
conditionings because the work is long and students stay in their
place. I don't care about conditionings, knowing Grace is stronger,
so I attend to That.

I know someone who was in a mental hospital and was told they would
be there forever. One day Grace simply intervened and this person was
released within two weeks, and we are very close friends. This person
has led a fine life for the last 15 years since the hospitalization,
and works in the mental health field with that unique perspective.

A person can spend forever on the details of his or her life and how
it's going, and some of that is certainly required, but it clouds the
bigger picture.

Love,
Jerry

____________________________________________________________________


For some, the challenge is to look "thru"
the clouds and storms ....and look towards
what lies beyond them.

For others, the challenge is to "clear
away" the clouds and storms. And
Self is seen easily, automatically.

There is no right or wrong way.

The 'way' is choice-less.

If we were to truly see
this choicelessness,

we could much better abide
the 'doings', or 'nondoings',
of others.


Melody

____________________________________________________________________


dear one




what is there left?
what else could we possible say?
joy spurting from every pore of this formless form
this freedom of nowhere to be and no one to be there
anything that arises is evaporated at the source
haha! nothing has ever arisen at all
kiss you a thousand thousand times
for listening and knowing
all over your nonexistence!
and yes, exactly as you are

cee

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