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Monday and Tuesday, March 19th and 20th

Jody and Dan;



>But this list supports "us" being so, in the relative
>sense anyway. That is, while one can apply the overlay:
>this is just one being being, there is still an involvement
>between loci within that being, even if this "involvement"
>is itself illusory.

It is illusory.
And that means there is
what is real.
And the words appear
and disappear, without
ever defining or "touching"
the very reality which
"allows" them to appear
and disappear.


>For instance, "your" words appear on occasion to correct "mine,"
>which I appreciate.

Thanks.
I appreciate the dialogue, too.
If there is no one to correct or
be corrected, regardless
of the appearance, there
is just words arising and
vanishing, along with whatever
sense of joy or happiness might
arise and depart, too.

>We are both not here, yet the words still
>appear, and a communication between loci appears to have been
>made, despite the fact that "we" as these loci don't exist.

Yes, it's intriguing.
Because nothing moved
between loci.
It's synchronicity, a wonder
to behold -- although
no one apart to behold it ;-)


>I guess the point is that throwing out the concept of being
>individuals without the underlying awareness and experiential
>knowledge of such won't necesarily bring about the underlying
>awareness and knowledge.

Sure.
Throwing out a concept still leaves
whoever or whatever acted
as the "thrower".
There is no underlying awareness
and knowledge, as seen here (oops, there I go
again, sounding like I'm correcting
you -- but honestly, it's just as arising
here, as seen here).
For something underlying, there has to
be an overlay, something imposed
on top of.
The overlay, the apparent individual
drama, doesn't impede or interfere
with the reality which never
arose or departed.
The individual doesn't need to be
denied, thrown out, or gotten
rid of. There is literally nothing
to be gotten rid of, and no one
who could get rid of something.
Never has been, never will,
never could be -- it would be
an immediate self-contradiction
that would implode before
being able to start.

>Exploring ourselves fully in our
>apparent manifestations as people might not either, but at
>least we'll have gotten at some of those nonexistent cobwebs.

Whatever seems to happen, seems to
happen.
There is no choosing entity who can decide to explore
or not explore.
The appearance of a choosing entity seeming to
arise, isn't chosen ;-)

>Put another way, believing we don't exist only gives us a
>belief in our non-existence, not an experiential understanding
>of such.

Jody - do you see the contradiction of
an existing belief in our non-existence?
The same contradiction is there with
an existing experiential understanding
of our non-existence.
If we could non-exist, we could exist.
So -- we neither exist nor don't exist.
It doesn't depend on belief.
A belief may arise in existence, non-existence,
or a supertrancendent aardvaark. Beliefs
arise and depart, and reality which "allowed"
the arising and departing is "untouched"
by the belief.

> If we hold on to this belief instead of being who
>we are in fullness and completeness, we run the risk of missing
>out on our coming to the actual knowledge of our non-existence.

The "knowledge" which has no object,
has no beginning.
Hence, it can't come into being for
us, can't be something we miss out
on or attain.
By attempting to hold to a belief, an
illusory sense of an "I" who can
hold beliefs is manufactured by
the attempt and the intent.
Seeing this, the attempt is groundless,
and no "I" actually is manufactured,
just a self-conscious efforting
based on nothing ;-)

>Tbe belief could very well block the realization, just as our
>believing we are individuals blocks the same understanding.

From here (not correcting anyone ;-) the belief that something
could block realization, blocks realization -- because
it makes realization into a something, a something
that could happen or not happen. Also, the attempt
to be something, along with the fear of loss of being,
blocks being aware. These two blocks are really the
same -- the attempt to act from and be a "center".

Love,
Dan


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From Nisargadatta@yahoogroups.com ;


Meeting Maharaj


Hur has requested that I share my experience of meeting Nisargadatta
Maharaj in 1978. I never took notes when I was there in Bombay so these
recollections have been sealed in my memory for the last 23 years.

In 1976 or 1977 ( I believe) a book review of I Am That appeared in the
Mountain Path Magazine. The Mountain Path is the in house magazine of
Sri Ramanasramam in South India. It was a very positive and
because Maurice Frydman had been associated with Sri Ramana Maharshi ,
it carried some weight.
This was the first time I found out that there could be a living Jnani,
a realized Sage of the caliber of Sri Ramana Maharshi. I sent for the
book, read it and was blown away. I wrote to Maurice Frydman and he
began to correspond with me. At some point he asked me to find a
publisher for I Am That in the United States. So I began sharing I Am
that with various spiritual publishing houses. I specifically sent it to
Shambhala, Rainbow Bridge and Unity Press. They didn't feel it was good
fit for their publishing houses. Then I got a letter from Mr., Dikshit,
publisher of Chetana Press (which is the publisher of I AM That)
informing me that Maurice Frydman had died and my letter had been found
on his desk. So I began to correspond with Mr. Dikshit. I decided that I
really wanted to visit Nisargadatta and started a correspondence with
Mr. Hate (who was Maharaj's son-in-law). Which brings me to January 1978
when
I flew Air India to Bombay with the intention of meeting Sri
Nisargadatta Maharaj.

We arrived ( my friend Rick and I) around 3 in the morning and sped at
break neck speed from the airport to our hotel. The town looked like it
was littered with corpses because so many people sleep in the streets.
We got to our hotel room by stepping over the sleeping hotel staff and
settled in for a little sleep. At promptly at six our phone rang, the
management requiring our passports. The din outside our room turned on
almost automatically, traffic racing up from Marine Drive. Across the
street was the gray shiny Arabian sea.
I wasn't sure I could stand our hotel room when we first arrived but
after some sleep and meditation we agreed that it was a good place to
stay. Mr. Hate called and said that he would take us to see Maharaj
later that day. Mr. Hate, who was thin, and wiry with a big smile said
that we should bring an offering when we see Maharaj. So we drifted
through the neighborhood marketplace and settled on some bananas. The
street where Maharaj lived was round the corner from the Alfred Cinema.
The noise in the streets was cacophonous. We came to his home and
stepped in. There was no formal satsang going on. In fact, Maharaj was
getting a shave from a roving barber. My first look at Maharaj was very
intense, especially because his whole face was covered with lather and
his eyes burned with an intensity that I could not fathom.
Was this love, anger or just total Awareness? I kind of wondered to
myself if this was all a big mistake. Maharaj was about my height,
around 5'3'' give a few inches. So he looked directly into my eyes. He
was so intense. Mr. Hate explained who we were, were we came from, etc.
So much intensity flowed through his eyes, through his whole being. We
were invited to return the next morning for Satsang.

Satsangs with Maharaj were predominately for western devotees and his
Indian ones who had a discerning, discriminating mind. Maharaj also gave
discourses for his Indian devotees and performed pujas.

The Satsang room was a loft above the family living area. When I had
read I Am That, I got the picture of
Nisargadatta Maharaj building a little room, probably not tall enough to
stand upright in. However, in reality,
the room was spacious at least 10'x20' ( my guestimate.) One had to
climb a narrow and sharply inclined staircase to get to it, but once in,
there was quite abit of room. Of course, when you filled it with 10-20
visitors it would crowded. The room was ringed with photos and drawings
of various gurus. Some I did not recognized, some were familiar. There
was a large photo of Ramana Maharshi which was up above Maharaj's
cushion, Maharaj sat directly below a mirror and on the opposite wall
was another mirror. To the side of Maharaj was an his portrait. The room
had pictures of the nine Gurus of his lineage and a huge silver altar
with a large photo of Sri Siddharameshwar. On many of the framed and
glassed pictures was a dot of kumkum. Maharaj would replace the flower
garlands and refresh the kumkum. If you arrived early you could see him
engaged in this devotional activity. Those who think that Maharaj was
not devotional would find out that he was very serious in this.

I think I will send this now and if you have any questions we can
discuss them.
Cathy


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Posted by Hur:



Awareness cleaned my mind
to a polished mirroring.

The presence came near, and I knew
that That was everything,
and I nothing.

- Lalla
14th Century North Indian mystic


_

I would like to introduce you to Michael Hortling, a brilliant and most
insightful Yogi and practitioner of Kundalini and Mantra Yoga. He has
written an excellent and remarkable article based on his first hand
knowledge of Kundalini awakening, its effects, and on mantra practice.
Michael is one of the those humble and quiet souls who keeps a low profile
but when he contributes, the depth and experience behind his sharing becomes
evident.

Michael Hortling is currently residing in Germany. He combines mantra yoga
practice with playing the guitar and creating music. As a youngster, he had
a mystical experience while watching the Aurora Borealis drape itself across
the Northern sky and this may have caused his energies to be like the
Aurora, flowing, generously gentle and glowing brightly. We thank him for
his wonderful sharing.

Michael's article can be found by going to the following URL of the HS
Magazine.

http://www.harshasatsangh.com

Here are some selected excerpts from Michael's article.

Using Mantras with Kundalini

"Over 20 years ago, the kundalini-shakti erupted within myself. Since I
didn't have a clue about what had happened to me and I experienced some
quite unpleasant side-effects of this awakening, I had to start looking for
remedies in order to ease some of the discomfort. This has been a more or
less ongoing process ever since and although I can't say that all problems
have disappeared, some interesting insights and experiences have been gained
and that alone has made the journey very worthwhile."

"The effects on the psyche, and on one's ideas about oneself and life in
general, that come about by an active kundalini are far reaching indeed, but
this transformation seems to have a price attached to it. In my case I've
been plagued by a variety of symptoms ranging from physical health problems
to bouts of anxiety and depression. As a result, I've been led to closely
observe and attempt to harmonize the innermost workings and mechanics of my
mind and body using a variety of techniques and methods such as tai-chi,
hatha-yoga and various types of meditation."

"I was sitting in meditation one day, quietly repeating the mantra in
thought, growing progressively calmer and relaxed as a result as the normal
rush and clutter of the mind began to recede. Suddenly it hit me like bolt
of lightning - I was inside "myself", calmly watching the mantra repeating
itself, calmly observing whatever thought-processes still passed through the
mind - BUT I WASN'T THE MIND - I WAS THE OBSERVER OBSERVING THE MIND! An
enormous sense of relief and gratitude welled up inside as I in one instant
understood that everything that really created problems in my life was
either mind or body, but that the real "I" was the silent and totally
unaffected observer, calmly watching everything come and go."

"This was a very profound experience since it in one instant blew the
identification with the mind to bits. I had always somehow thought that I
actually WAS the constant inner monologue and imagery playing themselves out
and now this was shown to be not true at all in a perfectly clear way. I was
actually the screen on which the mind with its movies was projected - but I
wasn't the images themselves."

Again, thanks for a beautiful and well written article Michael and thanks
Amanda for asking Michael to contribute. I love Michael's easy flowing
straight from the heart writing style as will others.

Love to all
Harsha


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The mind of comparison is
the mind of the past,
of the survival instinct,
of meaning-making.

Without comparison,
there is no time,
nothing that needs to survive,
no meaning to be made.

Just this.

Dan

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