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Thursday February 22nd


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Hello everybody,

It's *my* turn to announce that i have started a list/ forum/ egroup/
Y!group. Yes, i am the owner/ dictator of a brand new list, Guru Ratings, at
GuruRatings@yahoogroups.com.

Its purpose, besides aiding me in my quest for world domination, is to
provide a place for those interested in evaluating the various folks in the
biz and discussing the issues that arise in the course of such evaluation.
It arose as a way to spread around the various feedbacks and suggestions i
was getting. As yet there are few members and negligible action, but with
your intelligent, lively input?..........

And Sarlo's Guru Rating Service has been recently updated as well.

Namaste, Sarlo

Sarlo's Guru Rating Service
http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ratings.htm
Guru Rating Discussion Forum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GuruRatings


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Harsha:


Yesterday, we introduced Master Pham. Recently he has written a short piece
titled, "The Highest Teaching: Self or Emptiness" looking at an age old
debate.

Master Pham writes, " Whether ultimate reality is fullness of the Self or
Emptiness has always been a fascinating problem. It had been for long a
debate between Buddhists and Advaitins, and among Buddhists themselves
(Yogacara with the Mind-Only theory and Madhyamika with the Shunyata or
Emptiness theory)."

The article "The Highest Teaching: Self or Emptiness" can be found on
http://www.harshasatsangh.com. It sparkles with intelligence, logic, humor,
and insight. It is clear that Master Pham has a universal and a
compassionate vision which leaves no one out. Those who love nonduality and
an integrated perspective will appreciate this short but well written piece
in Master's Pham's inimitable style.

HS Magazine is the official magazine of HarshaSatsangh. HarshaSatsangh is a
fellowship with Sri Ramana as the patron saint and we follow the teachings
of the Sage of Arunachala. Sri Ramana was a Universal Master and saw that
all spiritual traditions point to the same thing. People from all religions
(Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, Moslems, Judaism and others) visited Sri
Ramana and freely expressed their questions and were answered. In a similar
spirit we welcome all as brothers and sisters without regard to their
philosophical or religious orientation. We follow the path of Ahimsa, which
is the first principle given in Yoga Shastras. Currently about 350 teachers
and students of Yoga, Meditation and Nondualism in a variety of traditions
are members. The discussions typically focus on fundamental life issues and
health in the context of the spiritual life with some required breaks for
humor and good laughs. For a more complete description of the list, please
go to the following URL.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarshaSatsangh/join

http://www.harshasatsangh.com

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"The realization that is neither absolute nor relative
penetrates without intent.
Clear water soaks into the earth;
the fish swims like a fish.
The sky is vast and penetrates the heavens;
the bird flies like a bird."

Dogen


There's something about that last line, "the bird flies like a bird"
that very much reminds me of Dan's 'just this, here'. Yes, the bird
flies exactly like a bird, just so... the fish swims precisely as a
fish does...

Intimacy with 'what is'.

Love,

Omkara

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Thanks for the honorable mention,
Omkara.

Dogen also said, 'wood doesn't become
fire, and then become ash', rather,
'there is wood; there is fire; there is ash.

But I don't rely on Dogen.

As you say, a fish swims like a fish ;-)

Love,
Dan

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Hi Gang,

I know how much some of you disdain experiences, but this line from Dan
and Omkara's conversation:

Clear water soaks into the earth;

reminds me that during one of my holotropic breathworks recently in
Sedona, I had an experience of being the parched ground when the rain
started falling. Oh my, that was nice!!! It was like being made love to
by millions of gentle hands, and it opened me up so wide!!! YUM!!!


Love, Mark
hey, thanks for the memories. Was it good for you too?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey Mark...

shhh!!!
<whispering>
experience is all there is.

love,
andrew

~~~~~~~~

Dan:

X is all there is.
X is all there.
X is all.
X is.
X
V
.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Come on Guys,

Enough with the Xcuses... Let X = X.

Love, Mark
ps oh yeah, Laurie Anderson asked me to add:


Let X=X

I met this guy - and he looked like might have been a hat check clerk at
an ice rink. Which, in fact, he turned out to be. And I said: Oh boy.
Right again. Let X=X.
You know, it could be you. It's a sky-blue sky. Satellites are out
tonight. Let X=X. You know, I could write a book. And this book would be
thick enough to stun
an ox. Cause I can see the future and it's a place - about 70 miles east
of here. Where it's lighter. Linger on over here. Got the time? Let X=X.
I got this postcard.
And it read, it said: Dear Amigo - Dear Partner. Listen, uh - I just
want to say thanks. So...thanks. Thanks for all the presents. Thanks for
introducing me to the
Chief. Thanks for putting on the feedbag. Thanks for going all out.
Thanks for showing me your Swiss Army knife. and uh - Thanks for letting
me autograph your
cast. Hug and kisses. XXXXOOOO. Oh yeah, P.S. I - feel - feel like - I
am - in a burning building - and I gotta go. Cause I - I feel - feel
like - I am - in a burning
building - and I gotta go.

___________________________________________________________________________



Since I was quoting Dogen, the founder of Soto zen,
here's equal time for Rinzai, the founder of Rinzai zen;


"Stop thinking and trying to find the answers. And do it now!

Don't be deceived by others. Trust yourself. That's all that is required.

The scholars and sutras! I spit on them! You have only to know that wherever
you
are , you are on the road to your own home.

The hope of enlightenment is like a yoke about your neck.

Bodhidharma and Nirvana are hitching posts for asses. Forget all this stuff.

Don't worry. Take things as they are. Walk when you want to walk. Sit when you
want to

sit.

Those who strive for success are stupid.

Time is precious. There is no permanence in an instant.

You are like a man who rejects his own head to look for another.

The real is ready at hand and doesn't wait for an opportune time.

There is no fixed teaching. All I can provide is an appropriate medicine for a
particular ailment.

What is there to doubt!

Let go. Don't seek or run away.

Make no mistake, there's nothing to be found without or within. And don't hang
onto my

words. Go your way in calm and with an empty mind. It is enough to be quiet and
ordinary.

Be self reliant.

Observe in yourself what is already there.

Farewell"



andrew

___________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________


Dear Tim,

>This is the only area we disagree. There is *EVERY* way to inquire
>into this... every life event, everything can act as the inquiry.

We don't agree or disagree.
We each type words representing a point of view.
Reality, which is all that is, can't be represented
as a point of view.
As only reality is, there can be no agreement or
disagreement, simply presentation of points of
view, conceptualizations.

And if every life event in totality is the inquiry,
then this is the all-out, all-at-once
inquiry I had mentioned.

Either there is nothing whatsoever
lacking or opposed,
Or there is an entity lacking something
trying to gradually get somewhere.


>If you deny such a thing as a sense of process (note - I'm not
>talking about 'becoming'),

Process involves becoming.
A process moves from here to there,
it changes from what is happening
at point A to what is happening at
point B. What is gradual is a qualitative
change, what is nongradual and nondurational
has no qualities -- doesn't happen, doesn't
come into being, has no process.


>I would question your eyesight... do the
>numbers on the clock not continue to change sequentially when you
>view them, or do you perceive them as stuck forever at some arbitrary
>date and time when this "instantaneous" inquiry occurs?

I would love to clarify, if possible, because
for me, it's the "turning point" at which awareness
dissolves any identification as independently
existing time-bound entity,
yet is able to continue to live in/as time.

I know words can't provide clarity, yet if there is
typing of words on this subject which can't be discussed,
so be it ;-)

(An actor suddenly realized that there is
no such thing as a part in a play, because
nothing is a part [apart], but could continue
to play anyway, and did.)

As the play, all reality is a flickering field of points
of light -- yet it is instantaneously "seen" that
this single point neither turns off nor on to itself.

The field of relativity is all these points, boundlessly,
yet each point, being neither on nor off, only
seems to be on or off when contrasted with other
points. There are no "other points" -- it is
only an appearance due to an imaginary
comparison. There is only this point -- seeing
this fact, there can be no comparison, there is
nothing to compare, hence no time, no duration.
This "seeing" is instantaneous because no
duration, no being or becoming or nonbeing is
involved.

As there is no duration to this point, there is neither
coming into or out of being, and the entire field
of relativity is shown as it is -- neither coming
in or out of being -- nondurational.

The instant I discuss is instantaneous no-time
that doesn't interfere with time, but
shifts irrevocably the perception of the
"field of time".

I am the
point of nonduration at the end of the clock's
hand, which is always
"now", so never knowing itself as "now" --
neither moving or not-moving (to itself).

The instant I discuss (which never has
or will be the subject of discussion ;-) neither
arises nor departs. I've mentioned in previous
conversations that
the way I'm using "instant" is equivalent
with "nondurational". (Just ways of languaging
that which is beyond any language or concept.)
The nondurational undermines any verbally-oriented
conceptual understanding of what reality is;
the nondurational, which never can be or not be,
has been "forgotten" as we come to depend
on images and ideas of reality as if those gave
reality, as we construe compartive realities
as if substantial.

>Simply resting as Beingness, choicelessly remaining in/as 'what is'
>is prior to and beyond any arbitrary definition of "instantaneous"
>or "gradual." Unless I'm completely misunderstanding (a possibility
>since sometimes your 'poetic' writing style is difficult to
>comprehend), you seem stuck on one side of a duality: "instantaneous"
>vs. "gradual."

Beingness seems from here to be a monolithic quality
elevated to a transcendent prior unity. If it is not that,
then it has no duration, and can't be said to
be "prior to", "during" or "after". As 'this', then
it is not an it, is nondurational, has no quality of
being, becoming, or not-being.

Nothing comes into being, nothing goes out of being.

Beingness sounds like a quality --
there is no quality in/as
nondurational timelessness --

Dichotomizing instantaneous and gradual is indeed
the common understanding of these terms,
which makes it seem that each opposes the other.
The instantaneousness referred to here is unopposed,
not related to "another instant of time"
so isn't the common understanding of an instant.

When there is no opposition of now and then,
here and there, movement and nonmovement,
no time is constructed, and there is only
this "instant" of "no duration". It isn't connected
with another moment, nor does it fail to be
connected - as there is no other moment.

I'm not trying to be poetic. The fact is, this moment
isn't connected with a previous moment or a moment
yet to come. There is nothing gradually happening,
because this moment doesn't relate to another moment.
It doesn't avoid relationship.
It is only what is, beyond is or isn't, beyond relationship
or non-relationship.

What is gradual can be opposed.
If I am gradually heading toward something,
whatever blocks that movement is opposition.
Gradual process depends on something changing.
When there is no something to change, there
is no gradual process.

If I am instantaneous, I am heading toward nothing,
and there can be no opposition.
What is gradual doesn't oppose what is instantaneous,
because it has no basis, it is entirely a conceptual
fiction, a point of view.
What is instantaneous isn't a point of view.
It doesn't "happen", so how can it establish as a point of view?

Instantaneous awareness isn't nihilistic, so
it doesn't do away with gradual processes.
Those can still be participated in and discussed.
However, the fiction that there is anyone participating
has dissolved, so there isn't change of a quality
or entity from point a to point b, except conceptually.

I deal quite well with process aspects of
reality, on a daily basis.
But that is understood as conceptual,
conventional.

We speak, we act, we live -- and all of this
is "instantaneous" -- without exception.
It's not even a matter of someone seeing it
or realizing it.
There's no choice involved.
It is all-seeing, all-knowing, with no
reliance on senses or knowledge --
its nondoing is all apparent doings.

The nonconceptual, nondurational takes no time.
It doesn't occur.
It has never occurred and never will occur, yet
is all that is.

As this is all-out inquiry,
there is no inquirer and nothing to be asked.
There is nothing to do, not to do,
nothing to start or halt.

Nothing has happened or will happened.

This is "nondurational".

Love,
Dan

___________________________________________________________________________

Jerry:

http://www.wwfwwffw.net/parahumanism/mind.htm

___________________________________________________________________________




NDS

Seeker, you wrote:

> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:04:44 +0300
> From: Jan <swork@alphanet.co.ke>
> Subject: To seek or not to seek is the question
>
> To seek or not to seek is the question

The question actually is; "why is there a question?"

> seek and ye shall find

Where, how, and when, to find the one who seeks?

> as Rumi would put it:
> get thirsty, really thirsty... and God will do the rest

Rumi makes beautiful metaphor, best appreciated 'after the fact'.

> I think the fear is, getting too used to seeking or to the
> journey and not wanting to arrive

The fear is, of the extinction of the 'favorite me'.

> [These are not my opinions, friends ... just a newbie
> thinking out aloud]

Do you always think in the opinions of others?

> To give my example, I am reluctant to meditate, to inquire
> the question of 'who am I' until I have read enough on the
> subject. I fear starting out on the wrong footing [so to
> speak].

First be sure that you have caught up on your sleep.

> Though I do try it out for a few minutes every now and
> then. Isn't the quality of meditation or inquiry more
> important than the quantity?

Who judges quality?

> I don't think controlling thought is that difficult.
> Shutting out all sensation, etc. can be done. You get the
> blank mind than what? Are we supposed to maintain this
> blank mind for a long time?

If you can self-instill sensory deprivation, the next step is to pay
attention to yourself.

> In fact why meditate at all? Isn't this freedom, this
> stillness, this self-awareness supposed to be ever present
> even while going about our everyday duties? Why cannot it
> just creep in unnoticed? Cannot it grow from mindfulness,
> heedfulness, constancy? Suddenly you realize that this
> stillness has always been with you. It is just that you
> have not been paying attention to it?

You may do as you wish.

> Isn't all achievement nonlinear? It comes to you out of
> the blue when you least expect. As if it is not for us to
> achieve but for God to grant in his sweet time? Or do we
> accumulate stamps of some sort and when the required
> amount is accumulated, bingo! jackpot?
>
> forgive this slow newbie learner ...
>
> love,
> seeker

Questions of 'what and how to do', occur when doing is given
precedence over Being.

> From: Jan <swork@alphanet.co.ke>
> Subject: Exhaustion or Stillness
>
> Exhaustion or Stillness

In perfect fitness, and when exhaustion is not an issue, the
stillness allows detailed examination of the entire surround.
Stillness is not without purpose, and there is purpose to our ability
to 'access' stillness.

> I used to daydream a lot. In fact most of my spare moments
> were spent day dreaming.
> Now with this new found interest in 'God' I have almost
> stopped day dreaming. All I do is read and think;
> download, read and think.

Perhaps you intuit the deep and present need to replace your current
set of vocabulary, concepts, and assumptions. If this is so, you
could examine the difficulty of validating anything, by the use of
what is by all evidence, invalid itself... meaning, all current
vocabulary, concepts, and assumptions.

> Sometimes my mind seems to rebel and just goes blank.
> Thoughts do not want to come. Sometimes they start to form
> and disappear midway!

You are observing the behaviour of a 'mechanism'. 'You' are not this
mechanism, this mechanism is your servant. Learn how to properly
prioritize the activities of this mechanism, and it will do all of
the 'work' for you. It will bring many things to you. But none of
these things will have any relevance to you, yourself; instead only
to what it is that you remember of yourself in this life.

If you in stillness examine the entire surround, find what is not
relevant to you, in memory in this life.

> Is this exhaustion or a precursor to 'stillness'? I
> suspect the former, however couldn't it be an aid to
> stilling the mind?
>
> =============================
> love,
> seeker

Your constant recitation of your vocabulary, will convince you that
there is nothing which is beyond it.

What is all vocabulary built upon?


==Gene Poole==

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