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Thursday February 8th


What about the one who has never proclaimed anything?
Can you hear what has never been said?

-- Dan


-----------------loud and clear good buddy, loud and clear. Everyone
is proclaiming something whethter they are aware of it or not.
Whether they have spoken or not.
........matthew



If it can be said that everyone is proclaiming,
there must be something that is not everyone
which is not proclaiming. Otherwise, it
would not be saying anything, to say that
everyone is proclaiming.

So, the question is, who or what is this
which is not everyone which is not proclaiming?

Because it is only from "here", that everyone can
be seen as proclaiming.

This is the same thing that came up when discussing
superiority. To see everyone as vying for superiority,
there must be "place" in which there is not a vying
for superiority, which allows it to be known how
everyone is vying for superiority.

I ask: is it possible to be this "place"
of non-proclamation, not attempting
to assert or be, of non-superiority/inferiority?

dAN


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... While there
are perhaps mostly people here who communicate easily in bottom line
radical nondual phrases, the voice of multi-dimensionality has to be
heard freely without being 'knocked-down' to one-dimensionality.
There is room for both voices. There is room for all expression, the
terse and the expansive/wordy, the very poetic and the very dry and
real, all voices. And all are equally valid and welcome. I support
people being themselves...

Love,

Jerry


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Uh oh...



I recently took a break from my Advaita and nonduality books and read
Extraterrestrial Contact by Steven Greer, M.D. As it turns out, the guy is
a nondualist, so I can't get away from it even if I try!

The evidence he presents that we are being visited by extraterrestrials is
very compelling. There is so much of it, in fact, that your eyes eventually
start to glaze over. There have been mass sightings of UFOs in recent years
in Belgium and Mexico before literally hundreds, if not thousands, of
witnesses. Greer has, since 1992 or so, been spearheading what he calls the
CE-5 Initiative, in which trained teams go to areas of recent UFO sightings
and attempt to make contact with them. In one case, Greer and his team went
to a place in England where UFOs and crop circles were appearing. The team
did make visual contact with one or more UFOs, and they were signaling to
each other with lights back and forth. The team also mentally projected a
specific design to the UFOs. The next day, that exact design appeared as a
crop circle in a nearby field! This design is now the logo of CSETI, the
organization Greer founded

But the most amazing part of the book concerns Greer's claims about what the
government knows about this matter. He states, among many other things:

- "The US government, at least at the level of a highly compartmentalized
above top secret group, has known about the reality of these ETS
[extraterrestrial spacecraft] and their occupants since at least 1946."

- "The US government possesses several ETS and the deceased bodies of
several EBEs [extraterrestrial biological entities]."

- The government group or groups that possess this knowledge and this
physical evidence are operating beyond Constitutional authority, and our
elected leaders do not have control over them.

- These secret groups have reverse engineered ET technologies and the
release of these technologies would transform our world overnight:

"Consider: A technology which enables energy generation from the
so-called zero point field and which enables every home, business, factory
and vehicle to have its own source of power - without an external fuel
source. Ever. No need for oil, gas, coal, nuclear plants or the internal
combusion engine. And no pollution. Period.
"Consider: A technology using electro-gravitic devices which allows for
above surface transportation--no more roadways to cover fertile farmland
since transportation could take place totally above the surface."
[snip]
"One must consider what will happen when every village in India (or
Africa or South America or China) has devices which can generate large
amounts of power without pollution and without spending huge sums of energy
on fuel. the entire world will be able to develop in an unprecedented
fashion--without pollution and without billions spent on power plants,
transmission lines and combustible fuels. The have-nots will have."

Greer and his group CSETI (www.cseti.org) have been planning for some time a
major public disclosure, with testimony from over a hundred witnesses, many
of them former military and government employees. Many of the government
witnesses have never come forward before and will not testify without
Congressional immunity. They had hoped to have this event during the
Clinton administration, but it was not to be. As I understand it, they now
hope to have it sometime early this year.

Greer's nondualistic outlook is evident in his chapter "UFOs, Humanity And
The Full Spectrum of Reality." Commenting on the debate in the community of
UFO investigators and theorists about whether UFOs are "nuts and bolts"
spacecraft or an "interdimensional" phenomenon, Greer writes:

"Could it be that *both* are correct?
"The reconciliation of these two views is possible by employing a
comprehensive paradigm of reality which does not fragment 'physical' from
'other dimensional' but which instead replaces the either/or argument with
and/and. That the predominant western bias for dualism, separatism and
reductionism has been applied to UFOlogy, as well as other areas of study,
does not mean that such a perspective in any way reflects reality. We are
accustomed to speaking of mind-body, material-spiritual,
physical-nonphysical as though a real separation exists, when in actuality
such distinctions are convenient, though linear, mental constructs. The
discussion of 'other dimensions' assumes that indeed there are other
dimensions which are somehow separate from this dimension, whater this
dimension is."

And further:

"We are reaching the point where further advances in the physical sciences
will require concomitant advances in the realm of consciousness or mind. At
that point, we will find that the interface between mind and matter,
physical and transcendent, is in reality a matter of perception and
dependente on the level of consciousness of the perceiver. Our perplexity
over the UFO phenomenon is in part due to a lack of insight into what it
means to be human,of the dynamics of mind and consiousness, and a strange
addiction to the neat and hypnotic separation between mind and matter,
science and religion, objective and subjective. Such fragmentation is a
monster of our own devising, and can be conquered only by evolving to a way
of perceiving which is inclusive, holistic and unified. In this we find
the greatest challenge and the greatest lesson in the UFO phenomenon. May
we not fail in this endeavor.
"In its greatest sense, the full spectrum of reality is another way of
saying 'God,' and therefore is infinite and all-inclusive. While each
generation of scientists and philsoophers regard their current knowledge as
the apex of all learning, just as surely the next generation will surpass
it. We will not exhaust the full spectrum of reality in this generation,
not in the next. But the path of exploration will remain open only to the
extent that we hold our minds open to an ever-expanding reality. For just
as soon as we think we know it all, or say 'aha! That's it!', we limit our
progress and throw a roadblock onto the path of knowledge."

Dr. Greer's book is available at www.cseti.org

Kelvin




Hi Jerry and Mark,

your conversation about UFOs reminded me of a book I read years ago
called the Montauk Project. Living as I do on Long Island, I was drawn
by the title. It was a bit odd for me, but hey, I was a pure-blooded
scientist at the time. Now what kind of mutt am I? dunno, but here is a
link you might enjoy:

http://www.sedonajo.com/bookstore/default.cfm?s=15

Love, Mark



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Spydir wrote:

Excuse me... but I would like to suggest that the list is
not "ill"/"sick" or
"not right", AND it's not due to, as E. so eloquently put it,
"The collective (un)consciousness is
gravitating to lower frequencies due to increasing violence,
economic instability, and elitism, etc...

Did you ever stop to think that maybe it's just time to "play"...
and to let this "season of play" run it's wonderful course...
go with the flow (so to speak).
The spirit of joy that has evolved in this place, is wonderful, and
serves Spirit well... in fact, we need more of it.

All things run their course. In due time, you all can get back
to discussions of "non-existence", "non-being", "non-duality" or
whatever...
but for now...enjoy the beauty of the moment...

Omkara, Mark, etc.. are (maybe unknowingly) pointing you in
the direction of "play"...
for now... surrender to the experience.
If you really believe, what you say you do, then
the "chit-chat" isn't really a problem... is it?

Thank you Omkara, Mark, and everyone else who have
become great "playmates"...welcome home.

Laughing with you all the way,

Spydir K



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Posted by Sandeep:



Steady in the state of fullness which shines when all
desires are given up, and peaceful in the state of
freedom in life, act playfully in the world, O
Bhagava!


Inwardly free from all desires, dispassionate and
detached, but outwardly active in all directions, act
playfully in the world, O Bhagava!


Free from egoism, with mind detached as in sleep, pure
like the sky, ever untainted, act playfully in the
world, O Bhagava!

Conducting yourself nobly with kindly tenderness,
outwardly conforming to conventions but inwardly
renouncing all, act playfully in the world, O Bhagava!

Quite unattached at heart but for all appearance
acting as with attachment, inwardly cool but outwardly
full of fervour, act play- fully in the world, O
Bhagava!


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Mary sent:



There is a pretty girl
on the
Face
of the magazine
And
all I can see
are my dirty
hands
turning the page

-jewel

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