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Saturday, December 16


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ANDY and JAN:


Andy:
It is high time to report what has happened to me. When I "practise"
being a "Witness" as you suggested, there is an invading feeling of
utter "loneliness" and "sadness" interspersed with a deep feeling of
"joy" and "bliss". Those under-quotation-mark words cannot really be
described in words (due to, perhaps, the fact that I am a foreign
speaker of English). These feelings are different from the feelings I
normally have in that "I" am not "swayed" by them. Am I still in the
right track, Jan or Is it the time for me to consult a psychiatrist?
:-) What causes such feelings, Jan and why? You mentioned that there
are universal "road signs" for the collapsed conditioned mind; Is it
one of such signs or Am I being "trapped" deeper?


JAN:
Those feelings are quite familiar - the reason why for instance in the
NT, something like the "first death" is mentioned, is this feeling of
utter loneliness and sadness. The "first death" pertains to that
"virtual entity", sometimes called "ego". The "joy" and "bliss" is
natural and doesn't depend on conditions. This "virtual entity" could
also be called the accumulated conditioning (beliefs, expectations
etc.) and grows with age. For an independent 24 year old single youth,
it would be unlikely that a term like "the first death" would apply
but for someone over forty, that term certainly will apply. I hope
this will erase your uncertainty; you're not being trapped deeper but
"on the right track".


ANDY:
The feeling of "being in this world, but not of it" intoxicates me and
makes me a bit "absentminded" and "socially aloof". As for
"kundalini" that you mentioned hereunder, Jan, I have read some
postings on some kundalini lists and I think most of the 'kundalini
awakened' persons are too "conditioned" with the concept of kundalini
as it is amply described in Indian traditions. I have the same
sensation of heat (although it is much gentler than what is usually
described in the lists), but I am not sure whether it is my body heat
or heat generated by my mind (mind is power, as you quote). This
"kundalini" concept simply does not go in line with the nondualism
concept, isn't it, Jan?


JAN:
Terms like intoxication, absentminded and socially aloof do sound
familiar too - I would interpret them as "favorable signs".
Strictly speaking, the topic of Kundalini can be left out, in the same
sense that a car driver doesn't have to be familiar with the
technology of a modern combustion engine - that knowledge wouldn't
turn one into a better driver. Only when problems with the engine
arise, such knowledge could be of use.

In the long list of "K. related" phenomena, "heat" is the most
frequent occurring one. They are "just" experiences and not worth
while mentioning - the few ones "worthwhile" will be recognized in the
course of events as THE "road signs", left behind by those, knowing
how easy it is to get lost in the maze of the mind. So there is no use
in knowing them beforehand.

But there are funny K. related effects too: many pets will get
sexually aroused when I caress them and several are able to "handle"
the energy after a few months, like the cat... A K. awakened cat - too
funny for words :>)

Nonduality and K. aren't mutually exclusive: Kundalini could be called
"the fiery snake who devours the world and finally herself" - the
symbol of the snake swallowing its tail. So when "world" has been
devoured, as well as that, which devoured it, what is there to
remain?:)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TERRY sent a collection of selected poems
on 'all is truth'. Here is one of them, by
Walt Whitman:


WALT WHITMAN

*All is Truth*


O ME, man of slack faith so long,
Standing aloof - denying portions so long;
Only aware to-day of compact, all-diffused truth;
Discovering to-day there is no lie, or form of lie, and can be none,
but
grows as inevitably upon itself as the truth does upon itself,
Or as any law of the earth, or any natural production of the earth
does.
(This is curious, and may not be realized immediately - But it
must be
realized;
I feel in myself that I represent falsehoods equally with the rest,
And that the universe does.)

Where has fail'd a perfect return, indifferent of lies or the truth?
Is it upon the ground? or in water or fire? or in the spirit of man?
or in
the meat and blood?

Meditating among liars, and retreating sternly into myself, I see that
there are really no liars or lies after all,
And nothing fails its perfect return - And that what are called lies
are
perfect returns,
And that each thing exactly represents itself, and what has preceded
it,
And that the truth includes all, and is compact, just as much as space
is
compact,
And that there is no law or vacuum in the amount of the truth - but
that
all is truth without exception;
And henceforth I will go celebrate anything I see or am,
And sing and laugh, and deny nothing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARK offers a haiku:

My cup is empty
And your hand reaches out
Again, the sound of water

(oh well, so much for form...)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CEE:


2 cool things about illusion:

1) it is noticed by something very real
2) it doesn't exist!

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DAN:


Perception forms.
The "perceiver" is formed
along with the perception.
The formation of perceiver seems
to imply one who can decide, think, do.
Nonetheless, each moment in which
there is a thought about decision
or doing, that thought formed along
with perception with which it formed.

All "perceived events" are interlinked because
"that which is perceived" is undivided.

"That which is perceived" formulates perception,
perceiver, perceived -- world and self.

There is no nondual way to live. That which is
lived is being lived. There are no entities
existing, hence no decisions to make about
whether to live nondually or dually.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARSHA, JAN and ANDREW:


Marsha:

.........I have been following what you have been
writing about seeing the light in people. To me the experience
is often seeing how dead everyone is. I realize someone could easily
respond that I am seeing my own projection. But...if I look out often
no one else is there. I walked the entire mall looking to make eye
contact and acknowledge presence and only one older man, obviously
weary, sitting on a bench, looked directly into my eyes with a smile
which shown through. I see the quote by Jesus as saying let the dead
bury the dead i.e. the walking dead, sleep walkers, dead people who
live, breath, write books...mechanical, robots, run by life and their
reactions to life.


JAN:
The experience, seeing how dead everyone is, isn't a projection
but a comparison one isn't conscious of. There is no other reference
than
one's mind-body and when conditioning is disappearing, the disappeared
conditioning
will still show in others. As this process of "burning down
conditioning" isn't something
one is often conscious of, the "reminder" usually occurs when watching
people.
So it will become visible that many are mainly absorbed in automatic
thinking,
conveying the notion of hardly being aware of events taking place
nearby
- an almost zombie like behavior...
When communicating with people, that will be different because they
are forced out
of automatic thinking - making them lively...


ANDREW:
Also people close down in urban environments. I notice the difference
between people
in the little town of a few thousand near where I live and the city.
That's not what I
meant though about seeing the light in people, that's the same no
matter how they are
acting. You (Marcia) asked if it was imagination, what does this mean?
Am I seeing
what isn't there? I don't know. I see it in everyone. What you're
talking about is
something else, there are a few people I meet who seem awake, lots are
sleepwalking.
Sometimes I'm sleepwalking too.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANDREW, MARCIA and SARLO:


ANDREW:
The past is dead. Identity, any identity is based in the past.
Moment by moment, identity changes, is renewed but still is instantly
dead, past. Each
new identity buries the previous. "Leave the dead to bury their own
dead" means leave
the identity making process behind.


MARCIA:

Well, it means lots of things, and different things at different
levels. I take it, on one level, as all in the present. Let that which
is dead <inside> to bury that which is dead <inside>. Another
way of saying it is to not let the left hand know what the right
hand is doing. Let the left hand bury the left hand. It is dead
already. Don't mess with it. Which seems to me to be what
you are saying. And it can also apply between people. Let
the dead people bury the dead people. It has more than one
dimension.


SARLO :

I have a further association to add to this. When Jesus said this --
as i
have heard -- it was in the context of Jesus telling a disciple whose
father had just died not to bother going to the funeral, and the
implication was that he, Jesus, was fully alive (as a living master)
and
that Peter (or whoever) would be better off in his company than with
the
funeral-goers.

This story was in the commentary of a Tarot card in an earlier set
based
on Osho's discourses -- earlier ie than the Osho Transformation Tarot
now
in circulation. The older set was called the Rajneesh Neo-Tarot. In
the
days of the Oregon ranch, they put a different card on each of the
doors
to the rooms of the hotel there. When my family came to visit me
there,
the room they stayed in had the "Come Follow Me" card, ie this one
with
the story and quote of Jesus.

As fate -- or whatever -- would have it, this was the last time i saw
my
father alive. He died six months later. Remembering the card, i did
not go
to bury him, although i was not at the ranch any more, but i did go a
week
later to visit and be with family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ED:

I have been developing a
"nondual dialogue", to deal with a politically hot
'freedom of expression' issue which has cropped up
between our local street artists and the city managers.

Briefly, "nondual dialogue" may occur in informal ordinary,
face-to-face conversation. It moves gently into an
attentional mode to better understand the fundamental
issues involved; attention is called to the attentional
needs that typically interfere with the equanimitous flow
of thought. When a person pauses in conversation to look
at the need for attention, i.e., pays attention to attention
itself, attentionality becomes self-absorbed. Suddenly the
person finds themself at the 'still point' and deeply into
awareness. At this point they become interested in the
process and in spreading it as the "politics of awareness",
a person to person, word-of-mouth movement.

A new list has been opened in Egroups for those who
are interested in refining the process.

URL to this page: http://www.egroups.com/group/NondualDialog


JERRY:

Hopefully there will be lots more said. I'm working out a couple of
things
with a web hosting company in town and then there will be a new
website at
nonduality.net that will be dedicated to nonduality and activism. I've
joined your new list, Ed, and hope others will. You know, if you take
a
close look at where, you, me and Terry are coming from, they are three
different places, yet our commonality lies in some nondual
understanding. As
we move into the activist arena we are going to meet people who have
the
nondual perspective, but perhaps it will not be as free a perspective
as we
have come to know. It may be tied to some closely held scientific and
spiritual understanding. There may be great reverence for Ken Wilber,
for
example. We may be meeting people with a restricted, limited nondual
perspective. I have no further comment on that possibility, but it's
interesting to think about its implications.

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