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Jan:
The unpredictability of the no-man's land can
be associated with the archetypal hero's journey. It reminds
of an introduction, Jung wrote in a book on Ramana Maharshi, that
wasn't finished by his close friend Heinrich Zimmer. Jung
visited India but didn't visit Ramana; he was considered
absolutely predictable. Instead, Jung was overjoyed by
meeting
a householder, firmly rooted in "worldly" life, who was a
disciple of Ramana. This was the "proof of the pudding"; the
validity of Ramana's teaching / method for John Doe.

Dan:
That's interesting. Jung probably could relate better to
the "worldly" version of things. Jung felt the ultimate
truth was
best served by a relationship between ego and Self and that
each needed the other. If he had met with Ramana, their
differences concerning this topic might have come to the
fore and perhaps Jung avoided that. I don't really know
because this is the first I've heard of it.

Jan:
Jung more or less stated in that book, he was unable to accept
nonduality. His objection was that as long as one can
experience, there is the duality of the experiencer and the
experienced. Clearly, he didn't consider the fact that the
notion of both experiencer and experienced can vanish without
impairing mental and physical functionality.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jan:
The function of disciplines and rules, like dispassion
and renunciation in Jnana Yoga, is that of tools, in order to prevent
blocks to form anymore and when the already existing ones pop in
consciousness, to be able to easily transform them. The meaning of
statements like "when the engine stops, the boat will continue to move for
quite a while" and "a match sets afire an entire wood, then is burnt
itself" mean that when the
"job" is finished, all tools (like dispassion, detachment,
renunciation) will self-destruct. The nicest expression for this is " when
a cloth has been burnt, it still can look like a real cloth but on touching
it, disintegrates", reminding of the fact that natives here are perceiving
the behavior of a Southerner (Europe, that is) and will react accordingly;
an impression that won't be generated by my letters :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Xan:

I'm sure we've all experienced the disaster created
by holding on to love. It becomes not love pretty quick.

Holding on to this morning's experience of beauty,
or last week's moment of profound revelation,

Any holding makes our wholly present aliveness
into something it is not. Death-like and painful.

Someone one said,
"Giving up control is like falling forever
through space and never landing."
It's scarey in the beginning, but you get used to it.
You learn to love surprises.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Xan offered a quote from Papaji:

There may be one thousand mirrors, each showing a different reflection of the
sun. There are not one thousand suns. There is one sun shining in all.
Reflections may be different. Sun is the same. Sun is one, shining in
everything, in every atom. Same.

Consciousness is the same. It may appear to be a bird, or animal, or tree, or
rock, or human. When you realize That, you will not suffer. You will enjoy.
You don’t need anything when you are total. This is absolute, total,
complete, perfect. All emptiness. All consciousness.

Don’t give rise to the notion I, and instantly you will see who you are.

----Papaji

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I have represented it as i saw it. to different people it appears
differently as every thing does for tho on earth things seem permanent they
are less permanent than a shadow as we all know too well."

sort of a microcosm (right word?) of the total final judgement-- future state
of psychic reintegration which disintegrates all human errors in perception
-- imaginative redemption to blake comes by humans recognizing their own
divinity.
and in being exhuberant about it.

"exhuberance is beauty."
just one of the reasons i like to hang out here at the NDsalon--the divine
exhuberance. . .

oh!--blake makes me feel happy and free!
:)
to the divinity in all,
blessings,
aleks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: Xan

found on Kashi website:

"I am Ma Kali, and I beg you to go deeper into the place of the terrifying
horror of the dying ego. I shall be there with you."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jan:

Can there be an experience without some kind of interpretation?
Impressions will cause interpretation, thus adding to
impressions (leading to more and changing interpretation).
Without impressionability, the "default" is not to interpret so
nothing is added; nothing is experienced. Without
interpretation there is not even a utilitarian concept of
"mine" and "yours". What once was experience, transforms into a
movie, summarized as "events and bodies, being engaged in what
only seems to be a real play of cause and effect." The final
paradox is the inexpressibility of Maya.

Jan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>Dan,
>
>Would you say that all experience is interpretation?
>
>--Greg


The only experience that would not be interpretation would
be experience that directly is reality. Direct experience that is reality
is nonspatial nontemoral. Usually experience refers to sense perception,
including thought and thought images. Nonsensory experience is not
experience to the body-mind. In this context, all sensory experience is
interpretation.

Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bruce wrote:

I would posit the following:
the ability of thought to
assume a pattern known as
"ego" or "small self" has its
origins as a survival trait,
it becomes problematic
because, being survival (in
the larger sense of the word
that includes successful
procreation) oriented it
invents fear to promote the
survival of the host organism
with which it identifies and
(not coincidentally) itself
as an apparently ongoing
entity (as contrasted with
the transient arrangement of
thoughts it actually is).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from Peter:

"Before your mother and your father met, I know you."

-- Nisargadatta Maharaj in _Seeds of Consciousness_


Dan:

From: "Dan

"Before Abraham was, I am" Jesus of Nazareth

Jerry:

I've mentioned my confession in The Wild Song of Standing
Free, which says, "Five thousand years have passed. I am
reading this. I am that pure."

It was a genuine confession which comes out of seeing what
is, which is that all is here now together nothing coming or
going or doing or even being. In another post someone spoke
of 'being' as being plural. When there is duality, being is
plural. In the expressions of Jesus or Nisargadatta, or even
mine, there is no separation, no time, no being. Once there
is being, being is plural. Even when it's singular, it's
plural.

Not that I'm comparing myself to these two Gods. Heck no.
They can't do the macarena like I do the macarena...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Glo:

When the Self does get a message thru and even that is labeled
"imagination" by consensus reality, or worse a symptom of craziness, then
what? When I look at how much of our so called reality is imagined, even
with consensus, its staggering. I forget who said this, but it was like,
"Even if men went mad all in the same way, as long as they could agree with
one another well enough, they would have a ground for consenus." Well, in a
way..they surely have gone mad..with the wars and everyday violence, for
only one example. It is no small matter that we can meet here at the NDS
and give one another the support and affirmation of our experiences and
beliefs that is so missing from consenus reality. That is why for me, the
personal confessions and
stories from real life events are always appropriate here. Don't you love
it when a Kristi shows up here? Finding kindred spirits when your life
circumstances are isolating is a real gift. Those who are more blessed,
please remember how difficult it can be to journey alone.


Melody:


I can remember feeling exactly that way when
I arrived.

I had noticed recently, though, that I had created
a kind of 'box' centered around the nondual
perspective, however.

I realized I had simply substituted one
consensus reality for another.

I noticed this when I recognized the sense
of constriction I was experiencing in brushing
off other curiousities and impulses that did
not 'appear' to fit the framework of thought
that had been built around my notions and
experience of "nonduality" and "liberation".

I had tasted freedom when I arrived at this
Salon. But I allowed it to become my
new 'box'.

I then tasted freedom again after I
realized what I had done because I gave
myself permission to be responsive
fully to *whatever* sparked my fascination
and curiousity. What I have discovered
was that from that space of 'paying attention
to' and 'responding to' what brings me Joy,
I open myself to being creative, as Creator,
and at the same time, being neither.

Nonduality once again becomes an "effect" of
living life spontaneously, without attachments,
rather than a prescription for living.

It's this 'dancing freely in life' that allows me to
commune and appreciate the testimonies and
discoveries of others, without feeling the
need to build a fence around them, and give
them a name.

And the recognition of this fills me with
gratitude.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry:

A serious contemplation NOW of one's impending death may
serve to straighten out the kind of "living by comparison."
Without such a turn of attention, one may have to wait for
age, old age, or a terminal illness to turn the tide. I
think of Kristie's homeless man holding the LOVE sign, the
man with the piercing smile and eyes that look to the bottom
of one's soul. Does anyone think he lives for Kodak moments
and rare instances when he feels he 'matches up' with
manufactured standards of what life 'should' be like? As
Kristie says, he is feared.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Marcia:
Personally I think that a good look to the bottom of one's
soul would show anyone that they don't live without
"living by comparison". That is the really scary thing when
one is completely and totally honest with oneself. All
my motives involve comparison and I am lying if I say
they don't. It is the BIGGEST lie of all to say that I
don't do that and puts me back to sleep faster than
you can say jack rabbit.

My moments of pure awakening are few and far
between and are not of my own doing really.
I don't choose the moment but if I can humble
myself enough to admit that I am just as asleep
as all those ordinary guys in life, I may be gifted
with a few more of them. :-)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From: "Petros"

"The jnani experiences all the normal emotions of a man, but he does not
take delivery of them." -- Nisargadatta Maharaj

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just listen to the silence
which underlies all perception.
Listen with all the senses.
Listen with body and mind.
Be still and listen.
That's all.

andrew
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Jerry:
Mysticism without religion is taking
without giving. True religion sees mysticism as a stage to
be transcended. True religion gives up everything and what's
left is a simple word, a very simple statement, and that's
all.

Dan:
If I may put these together - true religion is freedom itself.
Freedom
doesn't need any structure or organization and will do what it does
regardless of human created structures.

Bruce:

J. Krishnamurti, whose famous
1929 speech includes the
statement "I maintain that
Truth is a pathless land, and
you cannot approach it by any
path whatsoever, by any
religion, by any sect," when
asked what he was in the
vocational sense responded
that he was "a religious man."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Greg:

One very good teacher, friend of mine, answered a question from a seeker
who thought he was realized:

"The difference between you and me, is that you think there's a difference
between you and me."

Regards,

--Greg

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