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hursday October 26th


Here's a couple of links that will give you a taste of the
Vijnanabhairava. One is from Jaideva Singh's translation and commentary
and the other is a free translation by Lorin Roche.

http://www.digiserve.com/mystic/Hindu/Vijnanabhairava/index.html
http://www.lorinroche.com/1.htm

Larry
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Dear NDS:

Here is something I ran across during my daily time of Lectio Divina from a
great
contemporary mystic and pan-cultural non-dualist
(Thich Nhat Hahn and Thomas Merton were Spiritual Brother and two whom I regard
as
personal Root Masters). It recalls to mind
the songs of Mirabai and her devotion to her "dark lord." I hope it brings you
some
Joy as it did me.

"We should in a way fear for our perseverance because there is
a big hole in us, an abyss, and we have to fall through it into
emptiness, but the Lord will catch us. Who can fall through the center of
himself
into that nothingness and not be appalled? But the Lord will catch us.
He will catch you without fail and take you to His heart."
-Thomas Merton

further up and further in,

white wolfe
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<...>It is common is it not to expect
your teacher to be more conscious than you are? I think
I just grew up maybe. I suffered from the teacher syndrome.
Always looking out there for someone else who could tell
me.

Thanks for asking.

Marcia

Hi Marcia and W.W.,

Yes, Marcia, we do want our teachers to be above and beyond. And lots of
teachers like that vibe too! I've had teachers become buddies. I've had
other associations, mostly with wannabe teachers, who don't want any part
of you if they don't feel a seeking, dependent, yearning energy coming from
you to them. They don't want to be buddies or peers. In my experience,
most of the best teachers (in any field) had no trace of "teacheritis,"
that is, no trace of arrogance or wanting to be the teacher.

W.W., I like the student-teacher flip-flop you point to. Some spiritual
teachers say that it's the student that creates the teacher. As though the
teacher doesn't exist but the student does, and somehow the student
condenses the teacher from the ether of consciousness out of the student's
own delusion. That's teacheritis! And how could it be? They create each
other. As Gaudapada says, who is one of my favorite teachers, "The cause
is cause of the effect, and the effect is cause of the cause."

Love,

--Greg

Dear Greg:

Well met and well said. My first teacher was a saint of a man, an artist, a
mentor, a dear friend and my student. His name was Sergei Mihailoff. He
was a Concert Pianist and Composer and a student/amenuensis of Sergei
Rachmaninoff. At my first piano/composition lesson I remember him telling
me that there is no such thing as a teacher. He said that in order for me to
share music with him I had to accept the fact our relationship was sacred.
He said he would know that he had fulfilled his commitment to our
relationship when I told him what he himself wanted to know. He passed away
in 1975, but he is with me always.

further up and further in,

white wolfe
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Hi Larry,

> There is a quote on the back of Ramesh Balsekar's _Your Head In The
> Tiger's Mouth_ which got my brains a churnin'. The quote is, "The
> created object cannot possibly know the Creator Subjectivity." I think
> even Ramesh would disagree with this because it implies a creator/doer.


Except that Ramesh does not use the term Creator is the sense of a personal
entity doling out "created objects" here and there.

Consciousness is all there is, whether in the form of the manifested
phenomenality or as the latent Nouemenon.


> There is a way of talking about self with and without quotation marks:
> no self and "no" self. Here the "no" self is actually a me that is known
> but not grasped. This seems like it could be dropped.

Self cannot be dropped to attain no-self, for who is doing the so called
dropping.

No self or really no "me-entity" may occur and yet the identification with a
particular body-mind complex, call it ego may continue after this
occurrence.

> There doesn't need
> to be a me or an I that can't do anything.

The "me" which is only the assumption of "personal doership" is an illusion,
necessary so that with a "me", a "you" is immediately established and Life
as we know it, comes to be.

It is an illusion because it does not have an indepedent existence.


> Of course, what Ramesh means
> by Creator Subjectivity is consciousness.

Right.


> In other words, everything.
> Emptiness presense is an aspect of consciousness; it doesn't need to be
> me and all and everything doesn't go around doing things.

Again spot on.
You do not do things.
You never have.
Things get done through you and since the "occurrence" of these "doings"
needed precisely a psyco-somatic apparatus of exactly the conditioning that
you have right now, you were manifested.
Not the other way around.

Cheers


Sandeep
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...There might seem to be a Dan or a Sky, but have you
ever looked very very closely for a Dan or a Sky? If they really existed
they way they seem to, then the closer that the search gets, the more
find-able these things would be. But have you noticed that really looking
for a Dan or a Sky has the opposite effect?

--Greg
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...
I have been watching and wondering.

If what is wanting expression IS frustration and intolerance then
there is no way to express that civilly. Might not it be a mistake
to assume that it has anything to do with what is going on
here?

Frustration and intolerance is not reasonable. There is no
reason for them. Finding a reason to be frustration and
intolerant is already one step down the road. That
step has the name justification stamped on it.

I am not saying to not express frustration and intolerance.
I am only suggesting that to find a reason for them is
already a subtle form of repression. Express away and
see what is behind it. Moving forward by attaching
the frustration and intolerance to something only objectifies
them.

Marcia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear Marsha,

I find wisdom in what you
expressed...
One usefulness of a list such as
this is the possibility to
look into frustration, anger, mistrust
hostility, bitterness, or tension that
arises as a result of words
that appear. Of course, we can
examine joy, love, serenity, trust, too,
but as those tend to "feel good"
we are less likely to look into
those. Nonetheless, the same idea
applies.

I can say "those words made me feel
this", or "it's you and your ......
(fill in the blank) that made me
feel this" - or I can say, words
appeared and this feeling/thought appeared.
This feeling/thought is here, is
arising upon a word association, and
I can look into what's happening here
with that ... joy, tension, love, apprehension,
animosity, etc.

That is one way these messages can be useful
devices. It is used by the reader, for
the reader - what is coming up is from
the reader and is inquired into, or looked
into by the reader.

-- Dan
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Royal:
> I know only that I feel this yearning,
> that's brought me here.
>
************
And what is that? That's what I would look at if I was you.
Without all the 'hoopla' of whether it's good or bad and
how it feels, but just 'what am I doing?'

--
Happy Days,
Judi
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Hey Sky,

How are you? Long time!

Just a quick comment. Yesterday you said:

" My view, Andrew, is that there is absolutely NOTHING as authentic
and there is no greater authority than personal experience, in spiritual
matters!!!!!!!!!!!"

In this I have to agree with you! And particularly in my case anyways, there
really hasn't been much else. I started with "persoanl spiritual experience"
and basically tried to keep it that way (staying away from and/or refusing
erasing preconceived interpretations). I went a long way trying to
understand
what I saw.

Eventually I came by NDS, when somebody suggested that I needed to see that
I wasn't the only one who had had these experiences. I found a lot of
confusion
here, yes, and within a week or so I realized that this was because NDS was
composed of a group of individuals in just about every state of "discovery",
but I also dicovered that there was a consensus among others who had really
experienced what I had, and the strange part was that my search didn't come
from books or teachings (sort of like independent verificaction).

Well, on the other hand, you see NDS completely different, and that too
is on the base of your personal spiritual experience.

So, is it the experience that is the problem? I think we can agree here,
that "no, it's not the experience" that's at fault.

Is it the interpretation then? Hmmm. Sounds a lot more suspicious no? So
who's right and who's wrong. Don't answer that!

There's a couple of things we can do: defend our opinion, which puts us in
the oh so common position of conflict, as we see every day in the world and,
yes, even here on NDS, or we can assimilate all opinions, becoming One
understanding Self loving and compassionate being.

I really do understand what you are saying, as I think many here do. And, if
we do tend to banter about our ideas, well, more of the petals of this
beautiful flower become exposed.

Love to you,
Dave
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Maybe I do need hormone replacement therapy. :-)
I just had this experience which makes me so sad really.
I was petting the little kitten and I felt all this love for her.
Then I watched my mind say that I shouldn't love the cat
so much. It was just a cat and love should be saved for
people. Where did I get this 'idea' that there is only so
much love and it has to portioned out? You know what
I mean? Lots of things going on but one thing is that I
am now in my head and have choked off the love.

Marcia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This choking off of love
is, for me, when
I constrict and
feel as if I must hold
back.

As if, it's not safe.

Frustration with the lack of safety
experienced many times.

Then, breaking free, as "now".

There is no restriction, nothing
out of place.

If it is foolish to express love,
so be it. Let it be.

It is not at all like "they"
said it should be.

-- Dan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Marcia, as it appears you like to contemplate a lot, why not contemplate on
love?
Like how one's mother's appearance changes over the years but one's love for her
doesn't. Unwavering love for a transient life form, independent of its changes
in
appearance, wouldn't that indicate one is (unknowingly) in love with Love?

Love'
Jan

Helpful Jan. :-)

I feel like that scene in the movie Chinatown where Fay
Dunaway (sp?) is saying...my daughter is my sister.
It is sinking in that my parents are gone and I am feeling
the love and the loss and my history keeps appearing
before my eyes. The fishing trips, the trips to the farm,
the summers with my mother and my children keep
appearing as matches. My mother, my daughter, my
mother, my daughter. Loves does contain all. There
is no difference. It is a pass through. My parents, my
children, the cat....they are all in there. No need to
partition. No scarcity at all.

Marcia
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Dear Royal, Dave, et. al;

Even a dog like me knows about Hegel: Without contraries is no progression!

How did u get here? Your very presence is a result of conflict: masculine
vs. feminine.., rational vs. intuitive.., woof, woof, woof,

further up and further in,

white wolfe
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Will any of my fine thinking
get me anything? No.
Will any of my fine feelings
get me anything? No.
Will any of my lousy thinking
get me anything? No.
Will any of my lousy feelings
get me anything? No.

We can only share words here.
The ultimate absurdity,
this sharing of words.
Words of rage, words of wisdom,
words of raging wisdom -
still words.

The shock of the truth --
it won't be said or
given here...

Still, I share here.
Knowing the absurdity,
narcissism and foolishness
of it.

As the demons are exorcised.
As the angels are freed from
their shackles.
As the heavens are rocked
and rolled, and the hells
are burned into oblivion.

-- Dan
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If the scent of what you chase is not up-wind, putting a bag over your head
is a great idea.

We are what we perceive. What we perceive is what we project. When I read
dialogue like this it always reminds me that i am not ready to leave leave
the bone-yard that is my den.

further down, further within,

white wolfe


Jan:
And what do you perceive in deep, dreamless sleep, White Wolf?
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...
I was mooned and now I am the moon.

Shining on you, Ed
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In love, nothing exists between breast and Breast.
Speech is born out of longing,
True description from the real taste.
The one who tastes, knows;
The one who explains, lies.
How can you describe the true form of Something
In whose presence you are blotted out?
And in whose being you still exist?
And who lives as a sign for your journey?

Rabi'a

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I received this from a friend and wanted to share
it.......
It was written by Lise.

Hello dear ones,

Some of you have asked me to give them a summary of
Neale Walsch's talk. It
was great!

First of all Neale has a wicked sense of humour, as
he admits himself, which
made the lecture more fun.

He told us how he had the wrong idea of himself. At
16, he first thought
that he was his hair. Why? Because he would spend
hours and hours working on
it. His days would depend on how his hair looked.
Then at 23 he thought he
was his car, because people would treat him
according to the car he was
driving. Later on in life he thought he was his
women because his happiness
would depend on what beautiful woman he had on his
arms walking down the
street. Then later on in life, he knew he was his
job. At parties, people
would ask him first what kind of job he held and he
would reply, looking all
important "Editor" and would be treated accordingly.
Once he joked and said
he was a cab driver. People quickly lost interest
in him.

At a personal level, his life was going downhill.
His wife left him. He got
so angry at life that he asked God why his life was
so messy. He didn't get
any answers for a long time. Years later, things
were not going any better
and he broke down one day by 4 am went to his living
room and decided to vent
his frustration. He wrote to God. And a voice, a
real voice, answered him
"do you really want answers and are you just
venting." Neale answered "both".

After pages and pages God told him that these notes
would become a book.
Neale didn't believe but sent his typed notes to 3
publishers with a note
"read any 10 pages". A publisher answered him
back. The rest is history.

Neale said that a frequent question he gets is "was
the book edited?". He
laughed saying the publisher couldn't find any staff
member willing to edit
God!

He stated that we have arrived at a shift in human
consciousness. We are
coming toward the end. We (referring to
Lightworkers) have to decide what
will we do with what we know?

He reminded us that in life there are:
1) those who don't know they don't know: nurture
them
2) those who know they don't know: teach them
3) those who don't know but think they know: avoid
them
4) those who know but think they don't know: wake
them

The ongoing message throughout the evening was WE
ARE ALL ONE.

Stop living in fear, there is enough to go around,
enough time, enough
resources, enough love, etc...

We must choose to be spiritual activists.

We can start with very simple things: look at each
other, hold the look,
smile, and if we are really bold touch each other.
We don't even have to go
only to strangers, start with our loved ones.

Someone during the question/answer period asked "Did
God die in Auschwitz?"
Neale answered "No. But the important question is
not 'why did Hitler come
along but why so many people go along? This
atrocity happened to show us our
own height and depth. Do not misjudge people who
went along. We all have
some Hitler residing in us when we start thinking we
are superior to another
race, gender, etc... Even if we will not go to the
same length as Hitler.
We must work at not repeating that experience; and
we are not very
successful. We must work at discovering who we are
in the face of adversity.
Do we have compassion, forgiveness? Always choose
the highest. The question
is not 'did God die in Auschwitz, but did we?'

In the 2nd part of his talk about his latest book
"Communion with God" he
jokes about how it is OK to say to people that you
pray to God, but when you
say God answered back it becomes blasphemy! Neale
stated that religion
promotes superiority. Being white american
catholic and male he thought he
had reached the top of superiority. He profusely
apologized during the talk
for believing in what he called 'crap'. He told us
how years ago he crossed
the street in fear because a group of Black men was
coming his way. He
thought they would hurt him. He apologized for that
also.

God told him that not only the story of the 10
commandments not true but we
don't even obey it. Instead, we are believing in the
10 illusions:
1)Need exist (we even imagine that God has a need to
be worshipped and if we
don't, He'll be furious)

2)Failure exist (we imagine that God can fail, He
said to Eve don't eat the
fruit, she did)

3)Disunity exist (we imagine we can be separated
from God)

4)Illusion of insufficiency (we set up our
competition for food, God, religion,
etc..)

5)Illusion of requirements (we imagine there are
requirements to get into
heaven)

6)Judgment exist (we convince ourselves that it's OK
to judge each other
because we imagine that God does it)

7)Illusion of condemnation (death penalty: we stop
killers from killing by
killing them)

8)Love is conditional (we imagine that God's love is
conditional)

9)Superiority exist (we fool ourselves into thinking
the other has to do it
our way because we are superior)

10)Ignorance exist (institution promotes ignorance
by preventing people from
questioning their own belief).

Neale also covered other topics such as the myth of
Adam and Eve, and how Eve
was portrayed as the first sinner. Because that myth
was written by men.

He told us 'How did it become OK for some of us to
think that bi-racial
marriages are an abomination?' It is all rooted in
the 9th Illusion:
superiority exist.

In conclusion we have need of nothing, just call on
God. He has been talking
to each one of us.

Love to all from Mary

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