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JIVANO:

Taking out the inner garbage means to look at it, to experience
it again and again -- shaking and trembling -- until it looses
it's pressure, until it is no longer garbage but simply a
feeling.

That is so, because the feelings and impulses became garbage
when we didn't want them or couldn't express them and thus
suppressed them, pushed them into the unconscious behind the
muscle armor of our avoidances (often helpless to do otherwise
as a child).

This has to be undone.

I call that the dirty way - straight thru the garbage without
avoiding a single piece of it. Touching, feeling, tasting every
single bit of it, every single emotion which we had decided not
to feel ever again so long ago. Now feeling it again and again
and again...

I don't see any other way functioning in reality, although the
esoteric scene seems to have thousands of dreams about other,
easier ways.

That's my experience so far. And I see that as a prerequisite to
become normal again - feeling all what is happening in us from
moment to moment. Like children.

Enlightenment, advaita, nonduality, meditation etc. may come
later - or may not, because who cares, when life is just lived
as it is - in each moment?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

offered from HARSHA:

From "Four Quartets" by T.S. Eliot ---------------
------------------ We shall not cease from exploration

And the end of all our exploring

Will be to arrive where we started

And know the place for the first time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCIA:

IMO words can be used to connect or to disrupt. In fact the very
same words can be used to connect or disrupt. It is not the
words themselves that are to blame <s>. I smile because blame is
a 'loaded' word. My point is that it is the motivation or the
attitude behind the words which reveals or fuels. A word in
itself it empty; just black ink on white paper or decibels in
the air (I made that up but it sounded like what I mean).

It seems to me that what happens is just like with the ten
commandments which were carved in stone. It is not what is
carved in stone that matters but the 'living truth' behind the
stone carvings.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARK (WHITE WOLF):

Some of what I have been meditating on this morning.

"Be in the world but not of the world."

"My kingdom is not of this world."

"If you try to grab hold of the world and do what you want with
it, you won't succeed. The world is a vessel for Spirit, and it
was not made to be manipulated. Tamper with it and you will
spoil it. Grasp it and you will lose it.

With Tao, sometimes you move ahead and sometimes you stay back;
Sometimes you work hard and sometimes you rest; Sometimes you
are strong and sometimes you are weak; Sometimes you are up;
sometimes you are down.

The sage remains sensitive avoiding extremes avoiding
extravagance. avoiding excess."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MELODY:

Osho wrote, ""The relationship of guru and disciple is harmful.
However, a nonrelated relating between a guru and a disciple is
very beneficial.

Nonrelated means there are not two; relationship is where there
are two.

We can understand if a disciple feels the guru to be a separate
entity from him, because the disciple is ignorant. But if the
guru also feels the same, that is too much. Then it means that
the blind is leading the blind - and the blind man who is
leading is more dangerous, because the second blind man has
total trust in him.

There is no spiritual meaning to a guru-disciple relationship.
Actually, all relationships are the relationships of power. They
are all relations of power politics. Someone is a father,
someone is a son; if this were a relationship of love it would
be a different matter. Then the father would not be conscious of
his being the father, nor the son of being a son. Then the son
would be the preceding form of the father and the father would
be the subsequent form of the son - and this is the truth of the
matter." (end of Osho quote)

This reminds me of something I read somewhere the other day. A
child was asked "how do you know if someone loves you?" to which
(s)he responded,

"I know by the way they say my name."

And so do I.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ CEE:

there has been talk in the salon about the futility of seeking.
trying to stop seeking is more of the same but less useful

when it comes to realization do what works and do it and do and
do it till there is no one to do it any longer

stopping seeking, like "waiting for grace" can be used as
excuses to stay in the same dream

if it is possible to ask "who am I?" ask it do everything in
your power to liberate yourself

DAN: How will a dream character be liberated from the dream -
either by seeking or by not seeking? When the dream is not, the
dream character is not - neither as liberated nor unliberated.

Will a dream character be liberated by making an effort (this is
activity in the dream) or by making no effort (this is passivity
in the dream)? Either is simply an aspect of the dream.

Being dreamed as a character who laughs as the dream claims that
it wants to wake up from itself --

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ELLY:

When I was reading what fauxvox has written I saw the beliefs as
the other side of the same coin. They are also living entities
using the mind as medium. Actually mind is nothing else than the
collection of the beliefs which is then filtering the flow of
perceptions and creating this body mind.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HARSHA quotes from Avadhuata Gita:

The Self certainly does not become pure through the practice of
six-limbed yoga. It certainly is not purified by the destruction
of the mind. It certainly is not made pure by the instructions
of the teacher. It is Itself the Truth. It is Itself the
illumined One

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DAN: To be in the world but not of the world as I hear this, is
to be -- without taking in the judgments, evaluations and
concerns that are of here. It is to know the world sees me as a
form among many, yet my being did not originate with this form,
nor is dependent on this form.

I see this world as it is, without being apart, yet the world
does not see who I am. How can it, when it is looking for an
object? Its criteria for being are form-dependent, its
valuations of success the same.

The world insists it will demonstrate its knowledge of me, yet
it knows me not.

Jesus's words speak across centuries as one whose apparent body
the world killed, without touching who he is, the body that
couldn't be placed on a crucifix.

Lao Tzu knew also - spoke as one not of the world, but from whom
the world flowed.

Without making effort to convince anyone, his words echo with
truth. He had nothing to prove, nothing to establish, nothing to
preserve. He spoke only as response when asked.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JUTTA:

AVATAR, as I understand it, is another name for GOD. It is the
GOD who comes back to earth and starts creating. Somehow for me
there is this kind of movement of a "BUDDHA", one who awakes in
the world and gets less and less attached with the world. And
the other movement somehow is the AVATAR who is awake, source,
GOD and starts to create in harmony. And because the AVATAR
knows that he is "all or nothing", he is free to choose the
identities he wants.

And for me it is clear, for to live in the world one needs to
use and identity otherwise how to live? Even the identity of
being enlightened is a chose to operate in.

The starting believe is somehow "I am", otherwise there could
have remained just formless awareness, unspeakable, unlimitted.
But as soon as awareness comes into a form it gets consciousness
and limits itself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JIVANO:

I have lived 5 years to "find myself" in primal therapy and 12
years living my life as one of Bhagwan's Sannyasins, spending
most of my free time and money on groups, trainings, visits to
Oregon and Poona, living in a commune, going more or less
regularly to the meditations, hearing Bhagwan lectures in my car
on the way to work in the morning and back home in the evening.

After this 17 years it was not possible to do a normal
conversation with me, because I used every chance to speak about
meditation techniques and results, enlightenment, consciousness
and "my" Master.

It took me 6 years (and my spiritual friend and his team 7000
hours) until I was normal again.

This joy I can share - the joy to be normal.

And I share it whenever I see as a possibility that the other
may accept it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCIA:

In my former group we used to have a saying... Is a man what he
is doing? For me the answer was, well, he is if he is. It has to
do with the man.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LARRY responds to Jutta:

I know you would like me to talk about myself but I can't think
of anything to say. I'm not really a candidate for another
program. I'm satisfied with advaita, or NDS, which is a mini
version of advaita. Our lead swami, Jerry Katz, is interested in
developing what he calls nondual RV-ing. An RV is a recreational
vehicle, like a large van that can be lived in for short periods
of time. People drive them around the country side, usually on
holiday. They stop here and there to see the sights, mingle with
the local people, and sample the food. That's what I do, only
with ideas. I'm an intellectual wanderer, not really looking for
anything, just appreciating the differences. I don't know how
interested I am in avatar, but you seem like a very nice young
lady and I think you probably have good instincts. So as long as
you are willing to cook something up, I'll enjoy it.

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