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Sunday, September 10


Sunday was a very rich day, post-wise. Please note that you
may access posts as they come in to NDS at
<http://www.escribe.com/religion/nondualitysalon/index.html>
There is no membership required. There is also a search
engine which goes back a few days.

The following letter started an intense on-going thread on
Hitler, which is bringing much understanding. It includes
letters from two new members who live in Germany, Manu and
Florian. It is a lengthy 'Highlights', yet much material is
left out
for no particular reason other than space considerations; on
the other
hand I wanted all sides represented. I hope it is balanced:

POU

Greetings Dan- ji.. Supreme expression of Advaita and the
absolute non dualism teaching.

If I may go one more round with you in the full knowledge
there is no you.... Well then I step into the ring with
myself then..

Do you not feel it is only half of the story in adopting
the view point of.....

"no- view point?"

The point I make here Shree Bhagwan Dan-ji with the
acceptance that 'Dan the man within the enlightened plan'
as an individual entity does simply not exist in light of..
Illumination or self-realisation, awakening, enlightenment,
clear seeing, empty set which or what ever label one
chooses.

That the individual will of the assumed identity of Dan has
dissolved into the universal will and now recognizes itself
as such in full consciousness.

I don't know if you might appreciate Richard Wagner music
or not but anyhow it is reported that his last intended
opera - The Victors- was on the life of Lord Buddha
understood from the work of Schopenhauer. Lord Buddha
awaking to the Realisation that there is no individual 'i'
Schopenhauer's work that there is only the universal will
and no individual will as such that you are a part of
everything and everything is a part of you.. This thread
runs continuously through the work of Wittgenstein,
Gurdjieff, Rajneesh, Byron,Advaita, and so on as you so
mention in your own writings...yes..

Hitler too lived and breath Schopenhauer and was emphatic
that suspension of thought was a precondition for action by
the unowed, universal Self or Will. John might agree,
Gurdjieff work was a focus at the suspension of thought
along with Rajneesh and in the case of Rajneesh certainly
in the early days of his teaching I am told.

To return to my point here, in the work concerned in the
realizing of the Real self, one literally goes about seeing
the emptiness in the illusion solidness all know reference
points in ones consciousness. The inner mapping system
formulated through others description of how it all is..

Would you then agree that this awakening of consciousness,
the awakening to this 'psychological state' or as Nietzsche
describe it, being thrown into ones center of beingness
that in the first 1 to 20 years there also is a non
understanding of how to be this!

Many today adopt either to identify souly which the
stillness, in fear of entering into the phenomenal play of
consciousness for fear of losing this newly discovered
Self, or the other extreme of a deep undisclosed sense of
embarrassment of how to be.

Some rush to grasp as intellectual concepts, others over
smoke, use drugs, or drink to much, others rush head long
into sexual encounters. All in an unconscious..semi
conscious attempt to delay the overwhelming flood of light
into one conscious state of being.

For myself I have discovered that through this awakening..
and only through this awakening.. is their enough growing
compassion for oneself, to allow the experiencing of old
shame, guilt, especially in the light of the sexual
wounding having growing up in an inexperienced, confused,
lost, guilty, leaderless, shameful, guilt ridden,
conceptually fear orientated, fear of God and nature, fear
of blood, semen, and Dionysian qualities of celebration
earth sky and the animal kingdom. Well it wasn't just all
that bad but to a 12 year old it sure felt like it...

For myself the symbolism of the crucifixion is so apt here,
well certainly for the psyche of this being, that of Jesus
experiencing the final betrayal on the 'cross' over from
the personal to the impersonal in that he becomes true
human, suffering the human tragedy.

The spear of Longimus (today it may be the axe blow psych
logically from the wounded father) enters his body
releasing the blood with it the emotional waters of a
spring of life passion and feeling. Within the psyche of
this being, the young inexperience qualities of the eternal
youth are gone, ones primal trust is shattered and torn
apart.. the Masters mask is removed, and only thru this
enactment is love born, the feminine qualities with in a
man psyche given birth.

'Shree Bhagwan Dan- ji' Om OM Om Ommm.. ( nice ring to that
one) my belief here is how to bring enlightenment down into
or up into humanness into the day to day reality of this
life. ( Sure Shit and rose are from the same source) to
endless see where the avoidance to be human within myself,
is constantly challenged by escapisms into the
self-realisation of Self, where the now newly enlightened
ego parades itself as the 'new herald of understanding,
anointing itself in newly discovered knowledge of "I am'

I might await you blessing but you already have given them
so thank you may the dance continue long after we have all
disappeared into yonde

--------------------------------------------

MARCIA PAUL

Don't throw Gurdjieff into this pot.

There is a being in whom certain things have been
crystallized so as to give power which he terms a
Hasnamuss.

"(1) Every kind of depravity, conscious as well as un-
conscious.

(2) The feeling of self-satisfaction from leading others
astray.

(3) The irresistible inclination to destroy the existence
of other breathing creatures.

(4) The urge to become free from the necessity of
actualizing the being-efforts made by Nature.

(5) The attempt by every kind of artificiality to con- ceal
from others what in their opinion are one's physical
defects.

(6) The calm self-contentment in the use of what is not
personally deserved.

(7) The striving to be not what one is."

Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson

---------------------------------------------

GLORIA LEE AND JOHN DUFF, RESPONDING TO POU:

JOHN: John would not agree.

Hitler and Schopenhauer probably both ate boiled beef and
potatoes and both peed standing up, your point is what?
That peeing standing up makes me, Gurdjieff and
Schopenhauer like Hitler? This is formatory thought. If the
oh-so-subtle implications be grasped at by the person prone
to judgment. So, let me turn that part of myself on for a
second and say:

GLORIA: There is a brilliance to this logic John uses here,
in that he perfectly illustrates the fallacy of Pou's logic
in making his comparisons. Sure, anyone may form and voice
their opinion, but is it an educated opinion based on any
reasonable approximation to the historical facts and
scholarly opinion?

Wagner claimed to have been inspired by reading
Schopenhauer, whether he in fact understood it is another
matter. It is a fact tho, that Schopenhauer despised
Wagner's music and publically so stated verbally and in
writing. There is more that just musical taste at stake
with such allegations, for it is well known the uses Hitler
made of Wagner's music.

The "not innuendo", but direct statements by Pou to the
effect that Hitler was inspired by reading Schopenhauer, do
a grave disservice to the intent and meaning of
Scopenhauer's philosophy, as they do to Buddhism. Anyone
who might care to educate themselves not only by actually
reading Schopenhauer, but also by what is now the
acknowledged scholarly opinion of his work and influence on
subsequent philosophers,.. well, they would KNOW this to be
an error.

Putting aside for the moment whatever opinions one may have
about Hitler, there is a gross factual distortion of a man
and his philosophy here, tho to adequately defend him
requires more detailed explanation than this. I am not
asking anyone to just take my word for this..but if you
actually care, you might read up on him.

Pou is more than just offering an opinion, he is malinging
Schopenhauer quite falsely, by possibly just being
ignorant. His motive and intent to bring neo-nazism as a
topic here is a bit murky to say the least. If anyone's
understanding of nonduality is that it somehow justifies
mass genocide, perhaps they need to re-think their
understanding. But let's not let opinions stand with equal
weight to the known facts.

--------------------------------------------

JERRY K.

"Hitler too lived and breathed Schopenhauer and was
emphatic that suspension of thought was a precondition for
action by the unowed, universal Self or Will."

You mention Hitler so casually.

----------------------------------------------

POU

Jerry I not sure if you are aware of some of the e-mails
between Pou and others, especially Dan-ji in the immediate
time span re the discussion of personal doer ship or
individual identification as a 'me'

Dan-ji has stated unequivocally in recent previous mail
addressing Pou, that Dan-ji is totally conscious of the
Realisation he is the Self, and not an entity acting as
Dan. He clearly has stated as I understood, thru an
impersonal seeing that there is no individual 'i' operating
through any body mind neither Dan-ji, Pou or anyone else
for that matter...

May I ask Jerry are you or have you, adopted the view
point, that what Pou has write to Consciousness playing the
part of Dan-ji, that there is an air of casualness when
speaking of Dan-ji, Herr Hitler, and others in the same
paragraph?

So I'm clear.. Do you judge this as Pou's response to
Dan-ji as causal. are you being serious as in hurt by this
or playful in conscious exchange of view points..

If I may say so your own web site Jerry www. non- duality
.com I admire and consider it to be of the finest
definitions and unique calibers for an open forum in
presenting truth. Beyond personal concepts, ideas, and
believes system that perpetuate the game of separation
between beings of such innocence in search of wholeness.

I belief in the unfolding flowering of Consciousness
especially today, where so many people like yourself Jerry
have or are in process of awaking in Truth from the deep
sleep of the illusional separation, re into divine Self
Realisation where peace of mind is supreme eloquence.

I personally do understand that awakening means to awaken
from the dream play and upon an impersonal awakening, all
that is part of the dream, also simultaneously awakens
within the deep Realisation there are no others..

Casual far from it. I work in Germany. There certainly is
nothing casual about the German psyche in my understanding.

Interestingly there is more Satsang s available in Germany
today, than any other place I am aware of More Enlightened
teachers appear from the US of A directly to Germany than
any other country in Europe.

Good question why Germany? You may or may not agree the
recent past of unfolding events in Consciousness certainly
may have a direct association to why the German Volk or
people are so committed to the work in Consciousness. I
personally have never experienced such deep commitment
anywhere to breaking free from the clutches of egoistic
greed orientated patterns of behavior.

It would appear today Jerry, many awaken to the first stage
of self-realisation and become very identified with the new
found freedom of no 'i' Rajneesh is reported to have once
stated that people say stuck in the enlightened identity
for thousands of life times..

I'm very certain in your own magnificent research in
creating your site you have personally witnessed many
teachers with powerful deep realist ions of enlightenment
and yet still there is the acting out of clearly
demonstrations of greed. Ignorance. And anger...

It the old story to becomes everyone and everything to the
degree that dishonesty and denial of responsibility is
unthinkable..

-------------------------------------

SARLO

This sharing about Hitler has brought up some very
interesting stuff, something we have all internalized in
our own ways. It is a good device to explore our hooks and
blessings. I particularly appreciated Dan and Melody,
although they had very different and even clashing
offerings.

I believe Melody is trying to encourage a deeper look at
the subject rather than recycling old non-response-able
opinions that have stood the test of time. She is doing
this because the old durable understandings have not healed
the wounds in people's hearts.

She brought up the genocide of the Native Americans as a
way of focusing on the fact that the Holocaust against
European Jewry was not unique, and the Germans not alone as
perpetrators. In fact, as some militant African Americans
point out, the American holocaust against their own race
far exceeded the German pogrom, in total body count and
perhaps brutality if not efficiency. This comparison does
not invalidate anyone's suffering or feelings, it is just
more perspective.

Sky, who lost half of his relatives, Jerry, Dan, Gloria,
Melody, Pou and others all have something to contribute.
Great stuff! My own contribution is less personal because i
haven't had so much contact with particular suffering in
this respect. But in Osho's communes around the world this
has also been a big issue which has often been an occasion
for moving energy, because he has attracted so many Jews
and Germans, who continually rub up against each other.
This is what he had to say to a questioner once on the
subject.....

BELOVED OSHO, RECENTLY RUDOLPH HESS, ONE OF THE LAST NAZI
BIG SHOTS, COMMITTED SUICIDE IN JAIL IN BERLIN, WHERE HE
WAS IMPRISONED FOR FORTY-SIX YEARS. HE WAS THE RIGHT HAND
MAN OF ADOLF HITLER. "I DON'T REPENT ANYTHING," HE SAID
BEFORE THE COURT IN NUREMBURG, "AND IF I COULD START FROM
THE VERY BEGINNING, I WOULD DO THE SAME THING AGAIN."
BELOVED MASTER, CAN YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT FORGIVENESS,
EVEN FOR PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO BE UNWORTHY OF IT.

Deva Shanta, it is one of the most fundamental things to
understand. People ordinarily think that forgiveness is for
those who are worthy of it, who deserve it. But if somebody
deserves, is worthy of forgiveness, it is not much of a
forgiveness. You are not doing anything on your part; he
deserves it. You are not really being love and compassion.
Your forgiveness will be authentic only when even those who
don't deserve it receive it. It is not a question of
whether a person is worthy or not. The question is whether
your heart is ready or not. I am reminded of one of the
most significant woman mystics, Rabiya al-Adabiya, a Sufi
woman who was known for her very eccentric behavior. But in
all her eccentric behavior there was a great insight. Once,
another Sufi mystic Hasan was staying with Rabiya. Because
he was going to stay with Rabiya, he had not brought his
own holy KORAN, which he used to read every morning as part
of his discipline. He thought he could borrow Rabiya's holy
KORAN, so he had not brought his own copy with him. In the
morning he asked Rabiya, and she gave him her copy. He
could not believe his eyes. When he opened the KORAN he saw
something which no Mohammedan could believe: in many places
Rabiya had corrected it. It is the greatest sin as far as
Mohammedans are concerned; the KORAN is the word of God
according to them. How can you change it? How can you even
think that you can make something better? Not only has she
changed it, she has simply cut out a few words, a few lines
-- removed them. Hasan said to her, "Rabiya, somebody has
destroyed your KORAN!" Rabiya said, "Don't be stupid,
nobody can touch my KORAN. What you are looking at is my
doing." Hasan said, "But how could you do such a thing?"
She said, "I had to do it, there was no way out. For
example, look here: the KORAN says, `When you see the
devil, hate him.' Since I have become awakened I cannot
find any hate within me. Even if the devil stands in front
of me I can only shower him with my love, because I don't
have anything else left. It does not matter whether God
stands in front of me, or the devil; both will receive the
same love. All that I have is love; hate has disappeared.
The moment hate disappeared from me I had to make changes
in my book of the holy KORAN. If you have not changed it,
that simply means you have not arrived to the space where
only love remains." I will say to you, Deva Shanta, the
people who don't deserve, the people who are unworthy,
don't make any difference to the man who has come to the
space of forgiveness. He will forgive, irrespective of who
receives it. He cannot be so miserly that only the worthy
should receive it. And from where is he going to find
UNforgiveness? This is a totally different perspective. It
does not concern itself with the other. Who are you to make
the judgment whether the other is worthy or unworthy? The
very judgment is ugly and mean. I know Rudolph Hess is
certainly one of the greatest criminals. And his crime
becomes even a millionfold bigger, because in the Nuremburg
trial with the remaining companions of Adolf Hitler -- who
killed almost eight million people in the second world war
-- he said in front of the court, "I don't repent
anything!" Not only that, he also said, "And if I could
start from the very beginning, I would do the same thing
again." It is very natural to think this man is not worthy
of forgiveness; that will be the common understanding.
Everybody will agree with you. But I cannot agree with you.
It does not matter what Rudolf Hess has done, what he is
saying. What matters is that you are capable of forgiving
even him. That will raise your consciousness to the
ultimate heights. If you cannot forgive Rudolf Hess you
will remain just an ordinary human being, with all kinds of
judgments of worthiness, of unworthiness. But basically you
cannot forgive him because your forgiveness is not big
enough.

----------------------------------

MELODY ANDERSON

Rather than branding him, rather than judging (Pou).... why
not listen to him? Why not listen and invite the entire
story to unfold? Why try to 'banish' what you may fear as
'evil'?

Wouldn't this be a great place to put an end to an ancient
patterning?

...

This is what (Dalai Lama) also says,

"Our normal state of mind is heavily biased."

We have an attitude of distance from people that we
consider unfriendly or enemies and a disproportionate sense
of closeness or attachment toward those whom we consider to
be our friends. We can see how our emotional response
toward others is fluctuating and biased.

Until we overcome these prejudices, we have no possibility
of generating genuine compassion. Even though we might be
able to feel a certain amount of compassion toward some
people, that compassion, as long as it is not based on
profound equanimity, will remain biased, for it is mixed
with attachment."

As long as our compassion is saved for the 'victims' and
not offered, with equanimity, to the 'Hitlers', it is not
genuine compassion. It is an embracing of one 'side', and a
rejection of an 'other'. It is, in kindergarten terms,
'choosing sides'.

...

I am not Jewish, nor am I German. But I am someone who has
known the experience of brutality, and remember quite
vividly how painful it was to me that family and friends
were willing to continue to 'associate' with, and want to
get to know... and be around ... the one who had caused me
so much pain. It felt like a choosing. And it hurt like
hell that others were not willing to simply condemn my
abuser to eternal hell.

On the other hand, for as long as I can remember, I,
myself, always wanted to understand him I wanted to
understand the 'forces at play' which would set such
brutality in motion. In a way, I remember feeling even at
the age of 12, that somehow the pain would be lessened, if
I could know HIS pain, as well.....if I could see HIM,
underneath his actions.

Looking back, I realize that I never really wanted him 'to
burn in hell'. What I really wanted was to know I was
loved, to know someone cared, to look into the eyes of
compassion, yes...for one . But beyond that, I wanted very
much for it NOT to 'be for naught'.

And if, as Gene wrote, I could use this experience to untie
a Karmic knot, then this childhood of suffering would have
been well spent.


-------------------------------------------

SKY

Yes, Melody, I share your views so whole heartedly that I
am tempted to ask you to marry me. Hope I don't offend.
Does this help, : ^)? Yes, equanimity and compassion! But I
don't think that's enough. It never will be. Heaven is not
attainable: There is no such thing as spiritual progress
for any politically significant number of people. The Tower
of Babel proves that, it is testified to by this site.

Hitler, Washington and Stalin all achieved and maintained
power through genocide. Historically, no nation has ever
been founded and maintained without genocide. (Now, I said
those three names in the same breath. Although almost all
my relatives on my mother's side were killed in the
holocaust.... )

Politics has it's own laws. Jerry's statement was a
statement of power, not of "right" or "wrong." If I had
said, "get off this site," it would have been me who'd
gotten the shaft, and recently did, in a sense...
Washington and Stalin (sorry about including them in the
same sentence, though they, like HItler, did as much
genocide as their current technology permitted them to do)
are not as universally condemned for political, not moral
reasons. Stalin killed tens of millions more than did
Hitler. Why aren't we saying "Stalin" instead of "HItler,"
or "Mao," who killed even more? Because we don't have too
many Siberian or Manchurian concentration camp victims here
among us.

Gloria, regarding who is really HItler and who is really
Schopenhauer, no one on this site is admitting that they're
who they are, why should we be sticklers for identity
regarding people we are probably even more unfamiliar with?
I'm "familiar" with the academic game, and I think you are
too. We both know that for every expert's final canon,
there is an equal and opposite expert's final canon.

This is how politics works. And differences are never
resolved on the basis of morality. They're resolved through
scandal and spin. Just look and see! As years go by,
everything is revised, divergence flourishes. Just like the
tree I refer to, and the Tower of Babel.

For me, this site is a potential source for spiritual
growth because it burns away the defiles of political
babbling precisely by recapitulating them to the point of
absurdity. Any insight will and must remain primarily
private. And is there anyone here who has found internal
consensus? No, in fact, our claims are precisely to the
contrary.

And yes, Marcia, I saw "Thin Red Line," on your
recommendation. And isn't that what Sean Penn's character
resigned himself to when he said that we either believe
"their" lie and go along or they will kill us? The only
solution is to distance oneself internally. Isn't that what
history teaches?

Yes, even on NDS, we must remain politically correct.
Because the public realm is the realm of politics. And
politics requires sacrifice, and sacrifice requires power,
and power requires repression of one kind or another.

To paraphrase a line in "The Thin Red Line," Larry is the
father and the rest of us are his children. I don't know
who's the wife, although I have my speculations. But I know
that those here are ranked in accordance to seniority and
favor.

I have no objections to this. I know now tough it is to be
the father. It takes a lot more work than I'm doing for
NDS. But like any adolescent, I want to test and kibitz,
throw the father's own idealism in his face. And when he
gets angry, I've learned something about how patience
either works or does not.

That is the one final paradox Id like to address, it's the
one we always throw at the father and the one we always
experience with anguish: Love means tolerance of others'
intolerance. It is impossible to be intolerant in the name
of love without engaging in some form of hypocrisy or
another.

This, I believe, is the core dilemma of being. It simply
cannot be resolved, except in the moment of warm
heartedness. May we remember. Though we cannot but forget.
Love is here BECAUSE we forget. Otherwise, love is
meaningless. We must turn our love precisely toward those
without it. That what it's for:

Warmth against the cold.

-----------------------------------------------

Dan wrote: All our feelings have a place in the "great
interdependent scheme of arisings".

That means, that yes, there is a time for expressing a
feeling of revulsion or anger.

An honest response to seeing murder, torture, negation,
etc. in the human community, seems quite useful from here,
and having no reaction while claiming a stance of
"nonduality" seems less than fully response-able. Check
with the Dalai Lama if you don't believe me ;-)

MELODY: No one here would disagree.

But continuing to respond today to a murder that happened
50 years ago, is not 'response-able', as you seem to be
suggesting.....

it is reaction-ary.

And to cloak it as something else seems rather
disingenuous.

GLORIA: But isn't that EXACTLY what you are doing
here..re-labeling? Now those still feeling outraged by
Hitler's genocide are "reaction-ary"...

MELODY: What I feel rather certain that the Dalai Lama
would agree with.... is that if one truly wants to live a
life of compassion, one learns to 'let go of' the fear and
hatred and outrage one holds in one's heart for heartless
acts of brutality ......whether those acts are perpetrated
by a family memeber ....or by a government against a
particular culture.

GLORIA: So?? Does that letting go require in any way seeing
those "heartless acts of brutality" as anything different
than what they were? The Dalai Lama has repeatedly stated
that he does not "hate" the Chinese...but he still speaks
out against the continuing destruction of his people and
his homeland.

MELODY:Here's one interesting coincidence: Yesterday, the
US Government's Head of Indian Affairs issued an apology on
behalf of the US Government, to the Native American people,
for it's policy of genocide against them. They admitted
that the policy of the US government was to extinguish the
Native American people and it's cultures.

We are what we abhor, aren't we?

GLORIA: And your point is? The basis of this abhorrence is
not "OUR" claim to any supposed innocence. You are the one
who seems to "see that" in our responses, no one is
claiming to be exempt from human nature here. To see that
human nature is capable of all manner of depravity and
greed does not mean we are just "in denial" of that
potential in us, as human beings. If you want to tar all
cultures and times equally, by saying we are all guilty by
association with our own equally flawed heritage...the
facts certainly substantiate that. Before western
civilization found the 2 Americas, there were estimated to
be 60 million indigenous people, and about a century later,
2 million. Of course, disease took more lives than outright
murder.

But having insight and a willingness to understand what
within us as human beings allows such events to occur
doesn't mean we need retroactively pardon Naziism, American
slavery, etc. nor does it require a ho-hum response to
discussions about them. You truly do seem to be suggesting
that in order to prove we are not just reaction-ary or
claiming some pretended goodness...that we should like
re-visit this whole issue and come to some "different"
conclusion than what has been the verdict, that it was an
atrocity. I do seriously question the need to do that.

-----------------------------------

ED ARRONS

It seems the appropriate response to Hitler (after
expressing rage to his actions) lies in uinderstanding the
personal and social conditions that gave rise to his power.
No harm in 'nondualists', who are still secretly harboring
rage at Hitler (or excusing it) to spend a little time
there.

Without this understanding of 'Hitler', others will (and
have) come to power with no less brutality. But as long as
the name "Hitler" is there to kick around, the brutality of
others will be (and have been) more casually dismissed.
There is an unhealthy attachment to "Hitler" that
perpetuates human suffering.

Does it not seem possible, that with the understanding of
Hitler's 'reality', there will be a deeper understanding of
society and its relation to self-realization?

------------------------------

MANU

I just subscribed and read some of the last e-mails which
got presented through this e-group.

I want to share some of my thoughts about this:

As I am German I feel especially asked as you mentioned
that one German unsubscribed today - maybe (as you put out)
after reading the conversation. I don't feel like
unsubscribing at all: Why should I ?! Because somebody
mentioned Hitler?

For me as a German to read this sounds quite strange - as I
feel relieved that this issue finally starts to be seen
through other glasses than just the belief systems
remaining in black and white - that finally it starts to be
brought into the space of non-duality. And this without
avoiding the human, very painful side of it. I think it is
a matter of levels - and why not challenging the "there is
no I" and "we are all one" with some hot stuff so see where
we are at.

I know that there is just the seperation that I create and
that Hitler as well as Rajneesh or my neighbour is also
part of me. And the only way to really work on this is to
feel it all and take it all back to myself. When I remain
in putting Hitler outside and condemning my picture of him
I keep the war going on. The obvious experience is that
there are always two sides - and to judge and label one
side (or both) keeps the show going on for it always needs
a balance.

Love and bye for now Manu

------------------------------------

FLORIAN

I am really impressed by the strong and also emotional
response Pou´s mentioning Hitler had in this beautiful
eGroup called "Non-Duality". I am new in this group and I
am German (by the way excuse my simple English). Pou seems
to touch quite a wound also in this circle just by
mentioning this magical name. In my country we try to
forget him, keep him out of our minds or tie him up with
everything we dispise in our psyche and keep the whole
package in the realms of an unfortunate history. My
understanding is: until we cannot see Hitler as the same
manifestation of the one consciousness or call it will of
God, as anything or anybody else in this world , this wound
cannot heal, and shame and reaction to shame will
perpetuate the same old story of destruction on the level
of human history. I really love the fact, that Pou
triggered this discussion. My best regards, Florian.

-----------------------------

SARAH WINTER

Dear Gloria,

I did not understand how you come to the conclusion that
Pou could have the intention of justifying mass genocide,
bringing neo-nazism into the discussion or tried to
malinging Schopenhauers work. I think, Melody got the point
in seeing that Pou simply wants to bring the attention to
the phenomenon of Adolf Hitler in association with non-dual
philosophy. And that is certainly a very delicate issue, I
am German myself and I totally embrace the feelings of
shame and the wound that was created in the German psyche.

Apart from that my understanding is, as long as I cannot
see Buddha and Hitler as being one in consciousness, I am
still dreaming!

Much love Sarah Winter

_____________________________________________________________

GENE POOLE

Gene,

Just one question: Do you ever experience anxiety?

sky

GENE: Hmmm...

Years ago, I would have this sort of experience, and quite
frequently: -Sound of ringing in ears/head -Sweating
-Trembling -Rapid irregular heartbeat -Hyperventilation
-Tingling all over -Inability to speak, at least coherently
-Panic, fear -Flashes of light before my eyes -Followed by
exhaustion -Followed by feelings of utter worthlessness and
incompetence

I sought medical help, to no avail. "Panic attacks",
"Anxiety Attacks", I was told, and various medications were
prescribed, which I tried and abandoned.

I entered psychotherapy, did that for about 15 years, on
and off. It was a big help, really. I 'got' many insights,
all relating to how I was 'doing relationship' by methods
derived from my family of origin.

But by pushing forward and funneling my energies into
Tantric behaviours and expressions, I experienced such an
'attack' that I have never recovered, Thank Heavens.

The first of the 'Final Attacks' smashed me utterly. A
small voice inside was saying 'Kundalini'. So I bought
books about Kundalini and read them.

I realized that my chronic panic attacks and anxiety
resulted from me, pushing down what HAD TO COME UP. It was
difficult, but I allowed it to come up. Now it is up and
out; now, I live in a universe lovingly drawn by Ma
Kundalini. I allowed her her freedom; I let her go.

I see now, how my Tantric practices, my dysfunctional
relationships with women, all had to do with my world-dream
conditioning that I should be in control of women; this put
me into deep conflict with my own 'inner woman'. Problem
is, she in not only my mother, but the mother of the entire
Universe; I could literally not control her. I let her go,
I let her have her own way. I do not do her thinking for
her.

World-dream dominator-culture patriarchal-hierarchy
conditioning expected me to enact machismo male-dominance
not only of 'outer' women, but also (and this is what it is
really for) my inner woman, what CG Jung called 'Anima'.
This was the source of my inner conflict, and thus of my
anxiety.

This issue is not 'totally' resolved within me, Sky, but I
know now, what I can and cannot do. I can live in faith
that everything is really okay, and I cannot exert control
over others. If I forget these important guidelines,
darkness falls and I have anxiety.

Anxiety therefore is in inter-system communication; it is a
signal from my conscience, that I am doing something wrong.
If I am touched by anxiety, I stop, I pause, until I can
focus on what I am doing. I usually find that I am behaving
automatically, rather than consciously.

In this regard, anxiety is my best friend, who gently
informs me when I am blowing it. I no longer argue with
her.

So yes, I do experience anxiety, but I no longer fight it,
I follow it as it leads me deep into my conscience. I no
longer consider anxiety to be 'pathology', as I once did. I
am grateful for my own exquisite sensitivity; and I know
that others are just as sensitive.

I put all of my remedial behaviours into one category,
which I call 'having compassion for myself'. I do have
compassion for myself. And I advocate that everyone have
compassion for themselves.

The whole world-dream control-trip is a painful fire; it
exists solely for the purpose of teaching us that it is not
only painful, but utterly destructive, to control others
and to ruthlessly control ourselves.

Compassion for oneself is the answer to the call of
anxiety.

==Gene 'my name is space' Poole

____________________________________________________________________

Last night, a spring rain started to fall, it'll probably
be the last rain now until the fall in March or April.

I went to the window and looked out and smelled the fresh
spring air. Two green avacado trees moving rythmically to
the wind.

My awareness went beyond to Self, I asked, "what do you
want to see?", and before I could finsih the question I
heard, "You know"!

Ahhhh.. what day is it?

Love Dave

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