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Saturday, August 26



CHAZ:

Whats interesting about beliefs is that they are always backed
by emotions. Now emotions are very interesting. Nothing other than
examining them together was behind my question to sky "have you ever
studied the emotional brain?" Emotions seem to be offshoots or blown
up basic survival instincts of the physical senses, hence Sky's
instinctively protective reply was "whats your point".

We don't mind our bodies being examined in intricate detail barring
those private parts we emotionally identify with (and use for
survival), but when it comes to examining 'our' beliefs and feelings
we consider it very personal. I have been curious for quite a while
now, about the connection between the survival instincts of the body
(its sense of physical feeling) and the survival instincts of
the 'me' (its emotional sense of feeling) . Without emotion backed
beliefs 'me' the ego has nothing to protect it, no cause to be.

So my question is; Is the 'me self' and its glorified, feeling of
being a specially chosen 'Me Self' but a feeling, a belief an
imaginary emotional attachment we have become rather fond of even
though thought can function (perhaps even clearer) without it

This is an iconoclastic question, for emotions are very dear to us
and the thought of thinking or functioning without their dualities is
almost unheard of in these nondual circles were it even possible.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WAYNE AUSTIN:

"Years ago, I had an experience when I was deeply into spiritual seeking
in the sense that I was
attempting to get into other realms, wherein I had a few death
experiences. These were not casual
experiences wherein I knew I would have the experience and then come out
of it, I had purposely
put myself into situations wherein the potential for death was very
real. I would put myself into a
situation wherein I either had to experience "passing" because there was
no turning back without
deep trauma. (I have not spoken about this before with the exception of
two people so I'm taking a
"step out" by sharing this with you). (by sharing this with you I am not
recommending anyone do
what I did.)

In one such experience, I found myself at a "transition point" (I am
having to find words as I go
along hence the use of quotation marks frequently). By "transition
point" I mean a point where in I
could turn back or go ahead into unknown territory. I had approached
transition points before, most
often during "sacred ceremonies" which often included "sacred
substances" some of which are
peyote, magic mushrooms and others unknown to secular society. But
substances are not necessary
except for some people initially, once the "door" is glimpsed outside
"help" is no longer needed, be
that help physical or chemical. (many societies practice these
ceremonies ritually and some
American Indian practices are allowed by law such as the Native American
church that allows the
use of peyote).

At the transition point in question, I recognized that I had been to
this point many time before and
not necessarily in this lifetime. I recognized the transition point as
the "doorway" between life as I
knew it and death. Frequently I would back away from the door out of
fear in that I did not want to
leave this experience (life) just yet and since I had no guarantees that
I would return I would not go
through the door. But this time I did, I completely surrendered and my
last thought was, "I Am".
With that my body released and evacuated all substances (said politely).
I found myself in a place
entirely unrecognizable and by saying this I quickly say this is an
inaccurate description. There was
no "me". But there was a "place". I had no body but I had intelligence.
I could apprehend thought
and I discovered this by apprehending a thought that asked, "What do you
want to know?" There
was no body or substance "there" only the thought/question. There was no
lag time between the
thought and my apprehending it. To the question I replied, "What is
intelligence?" and what opened
up before me was the whole of "God's Mind". That was the end of Wayne
Austin.

Upon my "return" I Knew. When the end comes, be it by physical death or
Enlightenment/Realization/Awareness, you Know. All questions are
answered. There is nothing left
to Know. Granted, there are still things on this earth/illusion to know
(small "k") but nothing left to
seek for. But the one thing I learned from this experience is the
necessity of surrender. One cannot
Know until one totally surrenders all one is holding onto. This is the
meaning of many spiritual paths
Teachings when they say, as it says in the Bible, "You must come onto
God with wholly empty
hands". You cannot cling to one single idea. You must die onto this
world.

For many of us we need a person who has already made this transition to
help us. They cannot do it
for us but they can lend a hand and cheer us on, little by little until
such time as "God reaches down
and pulls you through". One can never know when Grace will shine upon
thee, we can only be
ready, eternally ready to give up. We only need be willing to be willing
when called. And when that
time comes, which it surely will, we can say, and mean, "Father, into
thy hands I commend my soul."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JERRY:
I don't dwell on a person's survival instincts even
though I may see them. We're all pretty transparent, I'd
say, in the company of sensitive people. Once the survival
instincts are seen and a person is free from conditioning,
then what? I suppose then a person stands a chance of living
to their full potential. But what does that mean?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

XAN:

Speaking of fun,
check out the sacred geometry Torus Knot animations here:

http://www.meru.org/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCIA had asked:
<snip> my question is .....where does the heart enter? Many
admonitions about use of power without heart. Gurdjieff
set outside himself his power to hypnotize people.
Do you know what I am talking about?


XAN:
~ How about watching the mind parade and learning
to direct consciousness from awareness centered in the
heart? It can be developed with practice, continuously
returning awareness from head to heart center until it is
established there.

Eventually one recognizes that awareness IS heart,
and that heart center is the gateway to Heart
everywhere.


MARCIA:

I wonder and this is a question only. Perhaps you
can address it. What I have found from experience
is that what I can 'do' is bring attention to my body
by sensing and then, depending on Grace (I think),
love flows in. It doesn't feel like I can go from head
to heart but I can go from head to body and heart
finds me. Can you address this?

Well, actually, if I am into it with someone like a
daughter, if I remember myself (which is get in
touch with my body), then I see (full three centered
vision) and image of my daughter as she is and I
am flooded with compassion. But it doesn't feel
like I can invoke compassion directly. Compassion
comes into me. I can think directly but I receive
compassion. I am struggling here for words to describe
an experience.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SKY:
My experience is that ALL OF MY FEELINGS
are the result ofwhat I tell myself. If I tell myself that my
sister (whom I actually did love more than life itself, actually
did) died tragically and senseless, and that I and she are
victims of an unjust and brutal universe, then I feel real deep
and relentless heart ache. But that's just an interpretation.
That's just me telling myself how and what and and why to
feel. I can just as lovingly and compassionately and genuinely
and authentically and sincerely say, neither I nor she live or
ever lived in time.

She is as alive now as she has ever been. The material world
is here to serve us, not the other way around. She's still here,
and she wants nothing more than for me to be eternally happy,
just as I always want her to be eternally happy.

I'm having fun as a service both to her and to myself, to God
as to humanity. It IS the most compassionate thing we can do
for each other.

The theory behind this is that the body believes whatever the
mind tells it, it can't tell the difference between what's "real" and
what "isn't." Subjectively, "In the beginning was the word, and
the word was with Advaita ('humans are not humans, they are God')."

MARK:

I noticed today (after the catharsis of last night, but still in the
muck) myself stating "I am in such a pissy mood" I saw that and
realized that it was a choice and not a very good one at that. I think
there is a two way street involved here. I have a mood and then I label
it. The labelling can either perpetuate or dissolve the mood state. I
have noticed in the past that when I come out of a period of depression
(which is always combined with anger), that it feels like a beach ball
that has been held under water for some time, being released. It's not
that I bring myself up, but that I stop holding myself down. Funny how
this is clear as the state is released but that it is so hard to think
to release when one is holding. Anyway, I agree with you about how the
feelings are the result of the story that I tell, and I would suggest
the reverse is also true, that I tend habitually to tell certain stories
when certain feeling states arise, whether the story is justified or
not. I think sometimes the feeling states arise all by themselves, but
that I then magnify them or hold onto them by telling the story. Yes?

So the advice from several folks today to just be with what arises is
perhaps suggesting that I stop reacting to arising feeling states by
justifying them and continuing them via stories (or trying to flee them,
which may just be another way of saying exactly the same thing.
Hmmmmm...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JERRY:
Jerry:
I think a person can make conclusive-sounding statements
while flowing with existence. A person can sound blatantly
contradictory without being divided.

A person can shout and be angry without losing equanimity.


XAN:
~ I have witnessed this in myself and with others.
The key is recognizing that this personal self and whatever
it does are only characters we play and stories we play out.
In surrender to the presence and clarity of Self, ideals and
standards fade away. The body and emotions become a
puppet of true Self. Sometimes I find myself doing what
my trained mind would diapprove, but with a sense of joy
and freedom that small ego mind cannot comprehend.


JERRY:
Things can be learned anytime, anyplace. One way I came to
learn something about equanimity was simply upon reading
this line in Kerouac's On The Road:

"It was remarkable how Dean could go mad and then suddenly
continue with his soul -- which I think is wrapped up in a
fast car, a coast to reach, and a woman at the end of the
road -- calmly and sanely as though nothing had happened."

It may not sound spectacular, but for me it was the right
words at the right time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DAN:


Love answered all love's
questions.
Then love dissolved
into unknown
knowingness.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CEE:

i bow to xan who voiced the great passion
of all hearts
i bow to dan who told the great non-story
of the only one
i bow to each and every one of you
in this bright room
where we all take risks
to find our own same truth
where jerry happily and humbly
opens the windows and doors again and again
sometimes it's so bright in here
can't tell the difference between in and out


GLORIA:

Cee, you are one of the bright lights who makes it so bright in here. All you
people
new to here "might, maybe, possibly" want to look at Cee's website..it is one
of the
finest visual presentations of nonduality I have yet to see. It's truly a must
see!!


http://www.presentnonexistence.com/


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARK asked Bruce:

> When will we get to hear those songs? (great lyrics!)


BRUCE:

E-mail me a snailmail address
and I'll gladly make you a
cassette -- and if you've
never been a cassette, you
really haven't lived! :-)

Btw, if anyone on the list
can transfer reel-to-reel
(1/4-track stereo, Dolby B
encoded) tapes to CD, I'd
surelike to re-master my
stuff for better audio
quality -- the cassettes
I've been sending our are
third-generation analog and
not nearly as good a
representation of my work as
I'd like to be sharing with
my friends.

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