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To the question, "When does the instinctual mind go?",

JAN responds:


One could say that first, the emotional memory (linked to
"small i") goes and then the "big I". No trace of a sense of
individuality is left and it seems the end of "progress" (for
many it is) although it can be the start of dissolving the
last veil or superimposition, anandamaya kosha or sheath_of
_bliss. But this also contains the instincts, being "freed"
from the delusion by "i". This is the reason why Buddha made
the distinction between nirvana with substratum remaining
(meaning the instinctual mind) and nirvana without substratum
remaining. The instinctual mind will start dying if one
doesn't rejoice one's feelings. This isn't a matter of
sadhana; that died along with the "small i" so the only
"motive" (for lack of the proper word for it) NOT to rejoice
one's (pure) feelings it the remaining feeling of separation
from unconditional happiness that shone so brightly at the
recognition and the successive demise of the "i and I". The
similarity with a path of love will be clear...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCIA:

I don't know why I am sitting down to write this right now.
I suppose I am in shock. My father just died as I was helping
him back from the bathroom.

I sat with the body. It grew cold very fast. I felt his spirit
in the room. Nothing like my mother though. He had really
left a long time ago.

It was a long, long goodbye. I have been caring for dying
parents for six years and now it is finally over.


JERRY:
Through you I have felt your father's presence. I hope he
looks peaceful and relieved. Recalling past lives, Xan said
yesterday, "I remember the relief and freedom following
physical death."

Thank you for writing us, Marcia. I feel I'm with you.


MELODY:

The carousel moving
round and round....

day after day,
hour after hour.

Same motion,
same scenery

over and over again

until it finally stops.

The silence
that then remains

can be thunderous.


MARCIA:

Thank you everyone and Melody the poem was beautiful
and right to the point.

I am a talker. I talk things out. So.....

This feeling is very strange. All of us, my husband and my
two daughters, and myself began to go down with this
in the form of all the ways we could have been nicer or
more attentive and so forth. We saw his shoes and it
evoked tears.

And yet, on the other hand, I was unaware of how totally
aware I was of him. He was totally in my care. There was
never a noise in the house that I didn't become alert and
attentive as to whether he needed something. I didn't always
feel very positive about it either. I was really trying to find a
way to take my girls somewhere this summer and working
hard to find respite care. Our family could never go anywhere
together. I feel like I can be a mom again.

He didn't get to the stage of lots of Alzheimer's people where
he would be in the fetal position in bed unable to feed himself.
He could walk and feed himself to the end. He went fast in
the end. We were talking about how we really all said good-bye
quite a few years ago because the man who he was just wasn't
there any longer.He was pleasant and good natured but not
present.


DAVE:

You share today the pain of thousands,
Know that it is the magnificent light
of a nondual sunset,
to dawn again.

Thinking of you today.

DAN:

First here,
then gone.

Once touching,
now vacant.

Unable to hold
you --
Releasing,
yet present.

This good-bye is,
like all other good-byes,
different from all
others.

What touched me
is with me,
yet moving
through me.

MARCIA:

I found him. In my heart. We are
talking. He is very happy and joyful.
I wound never have believed this possible.
It is all okay.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANDREW:

You could also put the opening line as
"Enlightenment is easy if you have no preferences."


DAN:

One could also construct the converse statement:
"Nonenlightenment is difficult because of having preferences."

One could notice that the first statement involves
not preferring to avoid the state of the second statement,
leading to this:

"Neither easy nor difficult,
neither avoiding preferences nor preferring avoidance,
nonenlightenment is seen to be in no way separate
from, nor other than enlightenment."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DAVE:

They say there is nothing particular that leads to awakening,
aside from "the spirit". I've never seen the statistics, maybe
someone has them, but it seems that the less one "has", the more
likely one is to reflect on what's left!


MICHAEL:

Oh, so true! I used to think, when life was dealing doodoo to me,
'Oh,God why me?'. Then one day I read something on the topic that
simply stated - why not you? I just had to laugh! It was so appropo
(sp)!

Tis the same with awakening, you might say. ;-))


DAVE:

Awakening is one of those things that's in between the beginning
and the end. Once you go through it, the beginning and the end are
the same thing, but the process is a bugger.


MICHAEL:

Yes, it is. At the time there was this immense 'connectedness' with
everything! Then, a whisper, "Go forth and live!" Yahoo! I mean, Amen.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))


DAVE:

I figure if one is rich, and they haven't made the journey, well,
there are lots of distractions.. the journey isn't even imagined.
If one has made the journey, being rich (with money) could provide
adorable challenges, or one could "forget again".

Just my opinion here, but I feel that the journey isn't complete
until one makes that journey himself and then learns how to make
it with others who are not at all like oneself. Nonduality is "all"
and "nothing". In the extent that you know "all" you know "nothing".

So money? Once you've started the journey, just another piece. A
piece with a powerful whisper. But a fantastic challenge.


MICHAEL:

Ah, yes. The old mind really tried to kick into high gear!
Re-side the house - new car - women - vacations - yada yada yada!
;-))

Shush said I - what will be will be. It will all be taken away in a
heart beat - when the time is right! So, don't worry about it! :-))


DAVE:

As long as one doesn't forget that we only know the human
challenges. Imagine, knowing all....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DAN:

A primary obstacle is believing that one
is moving from this state to that state,
that there is one who moves from this to that.
Enlightenment won't happen in this lifetime or
the next or the one after - it includes
all lifetimes. Awareness of the "inclusive
fact" is sometimes called "enlightenment" - and
such terminology may distract from the all-pervading
truth of Itself, may lead to misinterpretation
of enlightenment as an event that occurs within
a being's life - rather than Its reality as the Life
of this life/all lives. The gateway to Reality is
Reality itself.

I am always self-identical.
All apparent change, seeming differentiation,
is nothing other than perfect self-identity.
As it was before beginning and is
after ending.

Thinking that there is some enlightenment, bliss
state, fulfillment
that one will get to at some point in the future,
or that one lost in the past -
one might call this "fragmenting reality"

GENE:

Good Lord, man... !

Uh! I mean... do you really think they are ready for this?

I mean, ripping the sheets away like this... what will happen to them
if they see what is really 'going on'?

On the other hand... if you can say this, it must be the proper... er... thing.

So... this door of the register is open.

My-fucking-my!

Hoo boy... are we in for it now!

Those solar flares... I was hoping they am being an harbinger, ready
now for ride of mass inversion!

Just remember, folks... "Nothing really happens". Just keep chanting
that over and over.


ED:

Yet, would it not be pointless for one to read
discouragment from reaching for such a realization
in the above statement? Perhaps, in reaching for
wholeness, one simply lets go of the fragments.

Perhaps you too came to that realization at some
point when the past or future was not part of
the present?


DAN:

Free to be pointless,
there is nothing for which to reach.
Neither hopeful nor discouraged,
releasing is only 'being' itself.

Fragmenting reality is not possible.
Only the belief that there can be
fragmenting appears to be
perception, but is actually
interpretation.

When such perception is noticed
as never having been "there"
from the very first, fragmentation
itself dissappears - is seen
as only original Allness.

No "I, too" came to anything.
Only One, which came to Nothing,
by not arriving.
It presence is eternal nonpresenting
of self.

There are no parts to This,
thus, no "past" no "future"
and no "present" that can
be discussed as such.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MELODY:

when I heard Marcia say about
her father just now,

> I found him. In my heart.


I realized that said it all.

Isn't it interesting that both
Jesus and Osho encouraged us
to do just that.

Just as in the story about Osho's
mother's passing,

it says one need not wait to be in the
physical presence of a "great master"

to be given the opportunity
to "enter into the kingdom".
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

> Yes, Tim, Death is real. Very real.


TIM:

It is unreal. Only our perceptions of it give it a seeming reality.
The fact is that death is really just the end of the integration of a
body. If there is identification with bodies, death seems real.

The Bhagavad Gita is a good reference source on "What is Death?" It
is almost a technical manual on the subject.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JAN:
An event at age 7 did set the scene for life. At school, the
teacher taught us, God was all mercy, but would send thunder
and lightning when we dared to open our eyes during prayer.
Combining the two, I considered taking the risk would at least
prove God's existence. Much to my disappointment, nothing
happened and what was worse, the teacher was looking around
also. He punished me. I went home and told the story to my
father. He ran away as fast as he could, LOL. As a result, I
became a foremost atheist, "curing" everyone from
belief, even a vicar, by using logic. Being disappointed in
what human relations had to offer, I took part in risky
actions against injustice. When one of those actions failed
due to an error I made, I reflected on what would be an
appropriate penalty for fatal failure. Death, of course. I
swallowed what was needed but was taken out of coma by the
police. They subjected me to illegal interrogation. My friends
used this in a petition and the action succeeded after all.
The coma was more like a NDE. There was supreme peace, not a
single thought but it was very faint. The aftertaste of it was
so much stronger than the experience itself, it kept me
puzzled. As I had taken leave from life for solid reasons, I
was faced with the situation of how to continue life, as one
can take leave from life only once. Behavior changed into a
mere fulfilling of duties, remaining passive always, having
lost all interest in any participation. There was no mood
whatsoever; no joy, no sadness, no indifference. This
situation lasted for about 6 months, then on one day something
happened that changed life completely. Leaving the post
office, there was the sudden feeling of having to faint. Going
down within the compartments of the revolving door, I realized
there wasn't even embarrassment - obstructing the only
entrance/exit of the building. Instead of fainting,
consciousness seemed to expand, body feelings vanished and
there were no thoughts, no emotions, although volitional
thinking was possible. It was the supreme peace of the NDE,
but now it was Real. From then on, I knew what to "do" and
where "it" would end. What I didn't know was that it
takes a kind of miracle to function without consciousness of
sensory feedback. So this part (transformation of body
consciousness) takes a lot of time...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANDREW:

Death is continuous. The one who writes these words is dead as soon as they are
written, every word is the last word. The one who reads them just the same. The
same
for every one always. The present moment is all of life. If you think you will
wake up
tomorrow you are deluded. Already the one who started reading this is nothing
but a
memory. That goes for all material existence. What dies is dying right now, and
always. What doesn't die can never die.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANTHONY offers:

I am the awareness of being aware that I am universal
awareness, the first dim, the second brilliant, the
last a blinding radiance.

Wei Wu Wei

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

XAN:

~ Recognizing the transformation
of fragmented conscious into wholeness
that has been and continues to go on
might be called "surrender"


JAN:

According to the school of 'instant nirvana' one seemingly is
catapulted right away into unconditional happiness. No more
need for pets, spouses, friends, the list is long. No more
feelings whatsoever as there is only unconditional happiness.
No meditation, no contemplation, just "see" reality and ready.
Verification is easy as a tree is recognized by its fruits...

If reality is not 'unconditional happiness', it isn't worth a
used piece of toilet paper so why bother :))

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ED:

What matters more than the words offered here, regardless

how wise, how poetic, how clever, is how life is lived

without them.


MICHAEL:

True, Dear Ed, so true.

There is an old story about a Tibetan monk who, though dearly loved,
was quite insane. One day he jumped upon a rock and proclaimed, "Dear
brothers! Do not be like me! I have read all of the books of the
world, all of the sciences, all of the novels, all of the holy
scriptures! I have read so much and understood nothing! So, now I am
completely insane! Dear brothers, do not be like me!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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