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TIM GERSCHMEZ and responses

List,

Last night on inquiring into the nature of thought, I realized that thought
is *empty*. This is difficult to explain in words, I think it has to be
experienced, but here is an attempt.

Thought normally is recognized as something that has *meaning* (in the
context of either making sense or not making sense). Without some sort of
recognizable meaning, there is nothing that can be called thought. Yet the
meaning ascribed to thought is itself a thought... or a collection of
thoughts.

We recognize a thought by its meaning or context. But upon clearer
examination, thoughts can be seen to be *empty* - because the thought
depends on meaning to exist, and meaning depends on thought to exist. It's
a kind of circular little system that as Dan-ji once said, has no ground.
Look closely, and the whole non-system spins away into emptiness.

So, to look at (witness) thought without using thought, it can be seen that
thought is like clear glass. It can be said that it does not even happen -
that there is no such thing. Looking more deeply at the clear glass, there
is no glass there - like a sliding glass door so clean someone runs into
it, but in reverse. The glass is assumed to be there, but "reach out" and
there is empty space.

The conclusion is that where thought was assumed to be, there is only void,
full of Itself. Just look closely, and you will see that thought is
something imagined or projected out of nothing.

Probably none of this made sense. Oh well.

Love,

Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Makes perfect sense in the context of my
this morning flash.
I saw that thought is actually impossible,
being made of nothing and no one doing it.
Ha ha ha , tee hee hee

love
xan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dear List,

If there were ONE THING you would like to get across to everyone on the NDS
mailing list (something everyone would always remember), what would it be?


I'll start.

If it were possible, I would like to get across that there are no "persons"
here, only brief, flickering entities playing fictitious roles in a short
film. The problem of "personal attacks" exists only because there are
entities here believing themselves to be "persons." A so-called attack is
put forth with great emotional emphasis by one "person" (in an attempt to
bolster the "ego" of said "person") and is perceived as an attack by
another "person" (in an attempt to defend the ego of that "person").

The whole thing is absolutely ridiculous on a mailing list supposedly
related (even distantly!) to 'nonduality'. If every entity here realized
they are not persons, there would be nobody to do any "attacking", and
nobody to "attack."

The entire "problem" is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of what we
are. A little inquiry would likely solve it in a flash, but it is obvious
that not everyone engages in such inquiry. If it were simply seen that
emotional reactions are due to the need to defend something that does not
exist at all, the "problem" as commonly seen would vaporize.

Of course, this is a pipe-dream. Ignorance continues, endlessly.

Anyone else? If you could really get across one major point to everyone on
the list, what would it be?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


My question to you is why do you perceive that we don't already
know all this? I don't believe for one minute that the things I write
are any more than a momentary integration or as you say a "fictitious
role." And why do you perceive this as a problem?

Marcia

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Compassion.

andrew

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"You are love, itself and nothing else. no need for anything else. just
shine..."

LOVe, MArk'
see ya!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Your Silent Heart.

xan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


That we are all unique, and any attempt to fit people into "universal
truths" expressible in words is bound to be a disservice.

Love, Sarlo

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

GENE POOLE

<snip>
Gene: I thank you, Melody, for exposing and sharing the growth you
have experienced. Being able to say it, being able to share it...
this shows, that what has gone before, has been assimilated.
Sometimes, food is a bit hard to chew, and a bit of a challenge to
assimilate. Once had, however, this meal supplies permanent benefits.

I find no shame in laying bare my self; there is something in this,
which makes the baring a truly grand event, no matter that it may
pass without the notice of others. The swelling of the heart is a
true event, even as the pain of expansion may bring tears.

That others may not understand, be perplexed as they may, is even
more reward; passing beyond former boundaries, we breath new and
fresh air.

No shame, no blame...grist for the mill...

==Gene Poole==

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

JERRY KATZ


Gene's posts are sometimes like tidal waves. I learned a
long, long time ago, before he and I were on any list (we
were free range nondualists), to let that wave take me
without resistance on my part. I may or may not eat the fish
in that wave; I may or may not stay where that wave sets me
down; but I'm there for the ride, open to the experience,
and gaining education on different levels.

Jerry

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____


MATTHEW FILES

> What makes a guru?
-------------------------------
A radiant smile, deep pools of nothingness for eyes,thick luxoriuos
hair( or totally bald will do), a keen wit,and wry sense of
humor,some amount of eccentricity, though not too extreme if one
wants mass acceptance, a cool air of detachment,alternating with a
passionately gentle warmth and an unbelievable depth of understanding
and languaging of the dharma.
The list of qualities (practice that melting love/bliss gaze every
day!)could go on and on but bottom line it comes down to great P.R.
Without a good Rep the aspiring guru is really not going to make it
in todays highly competitive guru market. Dress sharp, talk smart and
above all get a web site. Image is everything. Once you have
determined what market you are shooting for all the pieces just fall
in place.Oh and lets not forget a hot name. Something eastern
sounding, either tibetan or hindu is working well with the public
these days.Though "Swami A.C.D.C.Somelongdong" is probably a bit
cumbersome.
Thats enough for now. In future posts i will be covering subjects
like,"Developing a Following","Starting an Ashram","Giving out
Spiritual Names", "Creating an Inner Circle","Leveraging Your
Satsangs","The Myth of Digital Darshans","Guru Getaway Vacations"
(for times when those devotees get to be just too much),"Death as a
Career Move","Titleing Your Workshops",(like, How I Raised Myself
>From The Dead In 49 Days Or Less And You Can Too). .........

..........Visualize Whirrled Peas
..........matthew
............matthew

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

HANS DEUNOUWER

<snip>
I have been trying to relax my body for a very very long time until i became
aware that this does not work for me. It literaly made me ill and i winded
up in the hospital. Too much focus on the body. It only works for me when i
let go off the mind. Somehow it's easier for me to relax the mind than to
relax the body. If it works for you the other way around, that's perfectly
fine with me.

I am not interested at all anymore in the functions of the mind or specific
thoughts, feelings, emotions,attitutes,teachings, systems, presumptions and
thelike , because i became aware of the fact that, to me, it feels like a
dog chasing it's own tail, and it has lost all meaning for me. I am trying
to get an *overall feeling* of what it's all about or not about and that's
what i am in for the time being. However, i am beginning to become aware
that i might be exchanging one story for another story, but that's another
story :) W'll see.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ladies, may i say something , please ? Thank you.
Yep, i thought many, many times, what the hell am i doing here. Things got
worse and not better. Glad i stayed. What does it do to me ? It makes it
very clear that we are all a bunch of dummies. If ever there was a place
that showed me that i am chasing my own tale, this was the place. It's quite
amazing to discover that you are chasing yourself, although we are very
smart at disguises. The *other* is becoming the *me*. Makes everything much
easier. I do not have to waste energy anymore in putting the blame on
others. And most important of all, i keep having this sense of *beautiful
things ahead*. It opens me up in a way i could never have believed before.
Never been more *fluid* in my life. So, Guys and Gals, don't you dare
leaving this place.

Love to all,
Hans

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


How difficult to see it's all *me*. To see the thinker and the thought are
one and the same thing. This sense of *me* as a separate entity is just
sooooooooooo strong. As I see it, a lot if not all problems arise out of
that division that keeps itself in tact all the time, making us believe that
we can somehow make things go the way we want. This mechanism is our only
defense ! Once the division is broken up or seen as unreal, what happens ?
W'll see.

Love,
Hans

________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

HARSHA

...I am reminded of a beautiful truth or insight
often indicated metaphorically. The top of the mountain, the highest height,
symbolically can refer to the spiritual/psychic height of Sahasarara Chakra.
When Kundalini Shakti moves up, its last resting place is the "top of the
mountain." From there, if one is totally and utterly indifferent to the
highest height, there can be a "jump of the cliff" so to speak. Grace allows
for this jump into the arms of Divine Beloved. It requires total faith and
trust in the Guru/God/Self/Heart/ or call it what you will for the ultimate
surrender of the mind itself. It is with that "fall" in to the deepest abyss
of emptiness that One Knows the Highest Height and the Deepest Depth are not
different. The Fullest Fullness and the Emptiest Emptiness are Totally
Identical. It is easy to see why mystics become mad, break with traditions,
and are willing to sing their songs even when they are despised. With the
cup always to the lips brimming with divine intoxication, it is easy to see
why mystics become poets. The Same Sameness Everywhere.

Love
Harsha

________________________________________________________________________________\
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DAN BERKOW

<snip>

Words are like fruit-flies. They congregate around
an apparently meaningful topic, then leave
to find something tasty elsewhere. When the words
fly apart, and the associated meaning is gone, what
is the "outlook" that remains?
Being seems to cohere around an existence.
When the consitution of the existence falls apart, what
is It that remains? Only That which never came
into being with the apparent existence.
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

DAVE PAWLAK (manchine)


This list, like everything else, has a purpose.... even if it
is just part of a short dream. It is lucid, you touch it and it
resonates, it responds as raw truth. Getting to know it
is its will. Serving its will is its gift.

Sweet dreams
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________\
_____

XAN


~ Guru and mother are forms, which we make.
God is formless, unmade.

xan

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