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JAN BARENDRECHT

NEO: I think it may be hard to find any that may be totally
realized for what is there to say?

JAN: There is little to say, except that many love mystics
were proficient contemplators. For instance, when having a
cat, it is obvious one loves the cat, even to the extent
one would be willing to kill in order to feed the cat. When
the cat ruins the curtains or vomits on the carpet, the cat
still is loved. Compare this with the love of a mother-cat
for her young - there is a similarity. True love is
forgiving and inclusive - nothing is negated or rejected
but everything has to be included. One hand can caress
while the other one is killing and both are manifestations
of love. The initial effort is but to see love.

Of course one is pure love already but "every-thing"
seemingly is in the way. This is why negation of
every-thing (neti-neti) is simpler, perhaps initially less
rewarding but in the end just as rewarding. For a lover of
Love, duality is the (seeming) separation between Love and
manifestations of Love (every-thing).

When living in a town, the woods seem to be silent but for
one living in the woods, the desertlike mountainous areas
seem to be silent. Seem, because when used to it, the
sounds of the body will be heard: the heart beating, the
intestines bubbling, the blood circulating in the ears, the
breathing. Likewise it is with the silence from verbalized
thoughts - only a change in kind will happen, a "leveling
down"; as long as the body is alive, it is possible to
observe thought processes: ultimately all matter is a form
of thought. As the body is alive, thinking remains
possible. Thinking is a power - sincerely wish bullshit,
one gets it, think one's body is a bag of filth, one gets
it, and when least expected (forgotten and no longer
wanted).

________________________________________________________

HANS DEUNHOUWER

I have tried sooooooooooooo many things and guess what.
nothing works, because you are never the same, so what
works this minute doesn't work the next. So i just let it
go the way it wants to go and that means that sometimes my
mind is wondering, sometimes i am aware, sometimes i am
dreaming but most of the time i have no idea. and i like it
that way. but who knows about the next minute. i might
start trying the same silly things all over again.

this morning i woke up and i realized, as if someone
slammed me on the head with a hammer : we will not be here
forever, we will not be here forever, we will all die
someday, we will all die someday.

and you know what. i made me happy. not that we will die,
but because it was so clear, soooo clear !

and then i thought, so if i want to be nice to someone,
i'll have to do it now. Beautifil thought, isn't it ?
However,

15 minutes later, i was in a dispute with my daughter !

No harm done, we were furious at each other and made
obscene gestures at each other, but it didn't last very
long. it took me a few minutes and i saw the funny side of
it (it really *is* funny, i mean those little things that
can upset you, very tiny little things, almost no-thing,
no, not almost, really no-things) and happiness and joy
returned in a flash.

and that's how i still am.

________________________________________________________

HARSHA

Professor N. R. Krishnamoorthy Aiyer 's first visit to
Ramana Maharshi. It is a very funny account.

Harsha

Professor Krishnamoorthy Aiyer speaks in his old age:

I am now ninety-two years old and I first met the Maharshi
in the summer of 1914.

I had a question for the Maharshi. At that time I was an
agnostic. I thought nature could take care of itself, so
where is the need for a Creator? What is the use of writing
all these religious books telling 'cock and bull' stories,
which do not change the situation. I wanted to put to him
straight questions: is there a soul? Is there a God? Is
there salvation? All these three questions were condensed
into one: Well sir, you are sitting here like this - I can
see your present condition - but what will be your future
sthiti ? The word sthiti in Sanskrit means 'state' or
'condition'.

The Maharshi did not answer the question. "Oho," I thought,
"you are taking shelter under the guise of indifferent
silence for not answering an inconvenient question!" As
soon as I thought this the Maharshi replied and I felt as
if a bomb had exploded under my seat.

"Sthiti, what do you mean by the word sthiti!" he
exclaimed. I was not prepared for that question. "Oho, this
man is very dangerous, very dangerously alive. I will have
to answer with proper care," I thought. So I said to
myself, "If I ask him about the sthiti or 'state' of the
body it is useless: the body will be burned or buried. What
I should ask him was about the condition of something
within the body. Of course, I can recognize a mind inside
of me." Then I was about to answer "By sthiti, I mean
mind," when it struck me what if he counter-questions with
"What is mind?" This I am not prepared to answer.

As all this was passing through my mind he was sitting
there staring at me with a fierce look.

I then questioned within me, "What is mind? Mind is made up
of thoughts. Now, what are thoughts?" I landed in a void.
No answer. I then realised that I could not present a
question about a mind which did not exist!

Up to that point, the mind was the greatest thing that
existed for me. Now I discovered it did not exist! I was
bewildered. I simply sat like a statue. Two pairs of eyes
were then gripping each other: the eyes of the Maharshi and
my eyes were locked together in a tight embrace. I lost all
sense of body. Nothing existed except the eyes of the
Maharshi.

I don't know how long I remained like that, but when I
returned to my senses, I was terribly afraid of the man.
"This is a dangerous man," I thought. In spite of myself, I
prostrated and got away from his company.

____________________________________________________________

DAN BERKOW

If thine ignorance offend thee, pluck it out. My ignorance
won't go away, so I'm making friends with it.

________________________________________________________

MARCIA PAUL

I love God with my whole heart, my whole mind and my whole
soul. It is my desire to help lighten the Sorrow of our
COMMON FATHER. It has nothing to do with me personally at
all. Not a broken heart or anything like that. I wish to be
of service. This is a heart felt desire not a desire of the
mind. I can feel enormous bliss sitting in meditation but
there is more than this. I can have hands free orgasms
(Kundalini) but so what?????? This isn't about seeking. The
being- strivings have to do with being. Conscious labor and
intentional suffering.

_________________________________________________________

MARCIA PAUL AND DAVID HODGES

Herewith the most complete list possible of Gurdjieff's
Order of Idiots, with thanks to Marcia Paul. (Yes, I know
we said no more after this, but I couldn't help formatting
the list for easier reading. Jerry, any chance this could
be posted on the NonDuality website somewhere, for future
reference?)

1 ordinary idiot
2 super idiot
3 arch idiot
4 hopeless idiot
5 compassionate idiot
6 squirming idiot
7 square idiot
8 round idiot
9 zigzag idiot
10 enlightened idiot
11 doubting idiot
12 swaggering idiot
13 born idiot
14 patented idiot
15 psychopathic idiot
16 polyhedral idiot

Idiots 17-21 constituted a spiritual hierarchy, reflecting
progressive gradations of objective reason

Idiot 18 presented the highest development which a human
being could reach, but in order to attain it, he had first
voluntarily to descend again from 17 to 1, the ordinary
idiot.

Idiots 19 and 21 were reserved for the sons of God.

21 - Unique Idiot (God himself being the Unique idiot)

Source: Moore, J.B. 1991. Gurdjieff - A biography. Element
Books Limited, Shaftesbury, Dorset.

___________________________________________________________

MARY SALEGUI: When I first joined this list, I said that I
did not understand what I am that I am meant and received
answers that helped a great deal. Well, there is another
expression that I cannot grasp and that is The Answer is in
the Question. Duh! Can someone please explain it? Pretend
I'm a child; I won't be offended. Is it supposed to be a
koan?

XAN: Look into where the question arose from, back before
that idea, before any idea.

JODY: In other words Mary, who asks the question?

MU: Mary Mary quite contrary....

The answer is in the question is much the same as the
seeker is what is sought. Is it a koan? For some, maybe.
For me it is one of those delightful contracdictions. It
points to one of most difficult aspects of non-dualism (or
any other darn ism) and that is the simplicity of accepting
that we are already there.

For me, I had reached a point in my little life where I did
not care if I starved to death, got a new job, kept my
house, etc. I wasn't miserable, understand, I just HAD TO
KNOW! I was living out that story of the seeker who goes to
the hermit and asks to be shown god. The hermit grabs the
seeker by the scruff of his neck and jams his head into a
barrel of water. When the hermit pulls the luckless fellow
out of the water, he tells him that when he wants god as
much as he wanted air.... only I was the seeker and the
hermit!-)

So, I discovered that I am That. It wasn't an intellectual
thing by any means. However, no angels appeared to
congratulate me, no aliens took me on a trip around the
universe. But, I did pass Go and collect $200! ;-))

Mary Mary quite contrary You're a buddha Ain't that scary!
!-))

MANCHINE: We never separated but here we are! That leaves
some pretty big questions, no?

DAN BERKOW: reat question! I mean, great answer!! Uhhh....
whatever...

It means this to me, Mary: Asking a question so intently
that you see the assumptions involved in asking a question:
There must be a questioner facing something that is
questioned, & some kind of tension that is expected to be
resolved in the future when the answer is attained.

When these assumptions themselves are opened into
questioning, one undermines the position from which a
question can be asked:

the assumed questioner is nowhere to be found appart from
the implied notion of his/her necessity for existing, that
is, implied by the activity of questioning, itself. the
tension can't be assumed to be resolved or resolvable at
some future time. the question that is being faced is no
longer faced from a position apart, dissolves as question,
and itself becomes the answer. the answer is: no time in
which to develop or receive an answer, no position from
which to stand apart to evaluate and query, and no
assumptions about what needs to be addressed, nor what
needs to happen for resolution to occur.

JERRY: It means the question is sufficient.

MATTHEW: well mary some adults like to pretend that they
understand things. You know what pretending is dont you?
Some adults do that so others will think they are wise. So
some adults will give you answers like this because they
dont know the answer either. It is really a silly game that
adults play.Also dear, it is quite ok to not understand
these words, these ideas, it does not mean you are stupid,
or that you dont understand. You probably already do know
what it means but havent ever put wrds to the understanding
and there is no real need to do that either.Hope this
helps.

_______________________________________________________

GLORIA LEE

It was said about Zen that when the women realized, they
just went on with the washing. It was the men who wanted to
sit around and talk and make a big deal of it.

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