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No dilemma
To digest,
Enzymes
Now turn
To self,

Leaving
A clean field;
Stainless
Laughing
Emptiness

***

I am my own echo,

==Gene Poole==

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


nothing to digest
nothing to spit out
enzymes self-dissolving

the universal
banquet opens.


this echo
in space
is only
the original
sound.


Dan

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Hello everyone:


Some thoughts: Heaven and helling myself.

Thoughts appear. I tell a story about the thoughts; when I judge a
thought as good, I heaven myself and when I judge it as bad I hell
myself. Example: There is no truth here. This thought is bad; it
frightens me. I am not at peace. I just helled myself.
There is no truth here. This thought is good. I'm so glad that all
this stuff cannot be real. I'm free, etc. I just heavened myself.
The bottom line is I do it to myself. I do everything to myself.

Another example: Every belief I have, I made up myself. this is a
bad thought. I want some beliefs to be True, so I can believe in
something greater than myself. I helled myself.
Every belief I have, I made up myself. this is a good thought. I am
bound by the beliefs I made up and I can unbind myself ; the power is
within me. I heavened myself.

Nothing in duality can be true and that's the truth. :-) Mary


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More from Adi Da -

At last I saw that it was not a matter of experiences, (whether of the
Shakti or the True Self) but of understanding - as a radical way or
premise. This way may be accompanied by various experiential phenomena,
but only understanding is the intelligence and constant exercise of
Truth. The only constant possibility in Real life is understanding
(itself). If one clings to any of one's experiences, this clinging
becomes separative, and it leads again to dilemma and the avoidance of
relationship. Thus, I saw that one must be willing to abandon
everything for understanding, making understanding the radical premise
and activity of life.

Even the perceptions of Bliss and the residence in the right side of the
heart are secondary to understanding. Understanding is a process that
can be activated in any one, whereas these experiences belong only to
special and mature cases of radical understanding. I have mentioned
these things in order to show them in the light of understanding. But
understanding is the "Thing" itself.

end quote
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I think the point of idiocy is getting lost. The idea is
that when you begin you are one kind of idiot and
when you end you are the same kind only conscious
of it. Nothing really changes just your awareness.
The whole
idea is to become an ordinary idiot or a conscious egoist.
Otherwise you are just going in circles. There is a round idiot
and a square idiot also. One kind of idiot which I am not
sure which one it is is the kind where they will agree with you
if you say that you understand that why they are the way they
are is justifiable.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi Marcia,

And when you find out what kind of idiot you are and accept it, it
becomes funny and poignant and lovable. I love my idiocy. It's sweet.
I enjoy confusing people with it until they see that its a game. It is
a game with me often times. That's not to say it doesn't still get me
in trouble, but it gets me in trouble when I am directed by it, not when
I can watch it with a parental love, chuckling and teasing it gently to
wake it up. (Whether I see it outside or inside...) I think we are all
the types of idiots, but we specialize somewhat. I'd love to hear more
about what round and square idiots do. It's helpful to have these
descriptions to see more clearly our behavior. I think that is what neo
is asking for, not apologies, but more information. (neo, sorry if I
got this wrong...)

Love, Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I had been aware that Gurdjieff had a ritual of Toasting to the Idiots
before his legendary dinners in Paris. Apparently he had a list of 21
different types of Idiots, and he would toast each one in turn. Also, he
would tell people what kind of idiot they were.

From the book "Struggle of the Magicians", by William Patterson, and from
things Marcia has been saying, I have put together the following incomplete
list of 14 kinds of Idiots. What I am wondering is, is there a cononical
list of Gurdjieff's types of Idiots, and if so, where?

squirming idiot
zip zag idiot
round idiot
square idiot
compassionate idiot
simple idiot
ambitious idiot
objective idiot
subjective idiot
old idiot
subjective hopeless idiot
objective hopeless idiot
enlightened idiot
ordinary idiot

For those who are interested, here is more on the "Toasts to the Idiots",
from writing by P.L. Travers, quoted at http://www.gurdjieff.org/travers1.htm

--David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ooooh, is P.L. Travers the one who wrote Mary Poppins? those are more
books I recommend for serious spiritual seekers. Yes, indeedy!

Love, Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Marcia:

"I pity Enlightened Idiot. More unhappy person not exist.(...)
Grandfather or grandmother. Perhaps his grandmother was
prostitute. He can do nothing about it. She already dead. No
one can help him. Not even God can help him". The terrible
situation of the Enlightened Idiot disturbed many people
profoundly and Mr. Gurdjieff was frequently asked whether
there was really no possible way out. Sometimes he replied
that if such Idiot came to him and could pay enough, he could
perhaps help him. But then he would have to descend all the
way back to Ordinary Idiot and start afresh.

(From a Privately circulated paper by J.G.Bennet)



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Without my concept-cocoon,
I am no one at all.
Stranded on the highway of
light with nothing to wear,
A homeless wanderer
with no memory of the path.
My backpack is empty,
who knows what will sustain me?

Love,
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A miracle:

Nobody knows what will sustain me...
Yet I am not only sustained, but
Utterly Fulfilled.
Needing nothing;
Wanting nothing...
Only the unknown highway
lies ahead.
Oh, what adventure!

Love,

Tim
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stars are your eyes.
Space is your blood.
Galaxies are your fingertips.
Each hair on your head
is the explosion of
a new universe.

Love,
Dan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


My eyes are empty.
Like a newly-dead corpse,
they gaze somewhere far away;
they look through and beyond you,
As distant as the stars, they are.
Blood no longer purposefully pumping,
but drifting aimlessly through veins.
Fingertips tapping to a hidden rhythm;
Like the static radio-pulse of galaxies.
With each shock of pulsation, hair stands on end;
Then drops, each tap giving birth to new universes.
Each new universe, in turn, giving birth again to me.

Love,

Tim

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Why Not:


Instead of arguing profound truths,
Why not BE profound Truth?

Instead of questioning what you are,
Why not BE what you are?

Instead of presenting a brave face,
Why not face life with the innocence
and vulnerability of a newborn kitten?

Instead of quoting books and scripture,
Why not write a book or scripture?

Instead of fearing the unknown,
Why not fear the known?

Instead of bearing insult,
Why not put yourself beyond its reach?

Instead of escaping through relationship,
Why not first be comfortable in your own skin?

Instead of passing the time,
why not remain in the now?

Instead of seeking awakening,
Why not just see the dream as dream?

Instead of living in a comfortable closet,
Why not boldly face the wilderness of life?

Instead of wearing yourself out being busy,
Why not watch your body as it does its duties?

Instead of taking pride in ownership,
Why not take bliss in emptiness?

Instead of making a name for yourself,
Why not dare to be nobody in particular?

Instead of blaming others,
Why not deal with your own reactions?

Instead of being jealous,
Why not be happy for the other?

Instead of getting angry,
Why not get compassionate?

Instead of reading this,
Why not turn inward?

... Tim
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>Instead of writing this at the end
>why not writing this at the beginning ?

>Love,
>Hans

Great suggestion, Hans.
I'll follow it.

There is no point to reading
anything here, as
instead, you could directly
be aware this moment.

The Self is nothing that can
be stated in words, so why
are you reading this?

Awareness won't be improved
by reading about it, so why
are you reading this?

Reality won't be any more real
because of something you read,
so why are you reading this?

Love won't be any more true
because people talked about it,
although it might become
more intellectualized.

The intellect isn't a problem
except when it's taken
as the seat of reality.

Taking something that isn't there
for something that is, is
a problem in the making.

The meanings of words are what you
make them, so why make them?

Love,
Dan

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Manchine:


Hello? Reading this I can hear me in my head!

Hello, this is me speaking. Ahem! It's like one of those
large speaker systems! Hello. Test.. test. I can hear me
everywhere. I can almost hear the feedback ringing. Ahem,
hello,

OK, just then my subconscious was more to the forground, but
drat, I mention it and who comes back... the one who analyzes
everything. It made the feedback go away anyways.

Well that's how I work, zipping around in my focus. One moment
dancing around on the words, the next looking at this flat screen.

I was thinking, this dream thing here, like could it be that I'm
the only one? And like nobody else is really reading this but me?
There's no way to really know. I mean I could answer this and verify
to Manchine that I am really reading this, and maybe he would answer,
but that could just be me dreaming.

And it could be that the other characters in my dream are soo detailed
that they may even think that they are real. In which case, maybe I'm
just part of their dream which is soo detailed that I think I am real.

No, but it's certain that I'm real! I mean I'm reading this. And then I
imagine that Manchine is real, because he is writing this. Although I
can't be sure of that. But if it were so, there would be two similar but
distinct versions of reality. And of course, if I'm not the only one in
this dream, then each case of reading this would be a slightly distinct case
of reality. And if any one of those is correct, then mine is not. Unless
their reality was not correct, or everyones reality considered that we are
all one and the same.

Hello, hello, will somebody make the feedback go away! Ah, there he is
the analyst again. Nice and cozy again here with my trusty flat screen.

Next!

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As I have said before it is said that the ego's strongest weapon is
it's ability to hide itself. Personal sounds like you are referring to
that ego/body mesh called a person. Preferences also smacks of the
same. To have a preference one has to make a judgement.

love, neo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~ Not necessarily, neo. In my garden, some flowers prefer strong
sunlight and some prefer shade. The robins seem to prefer earth
worms and the crows prefer grasshoppers. Preferences are not
the same as desires, and merely reflect the nature of the creatures
we are. Some buddhas prefer meat .........

What is a person who no longer identifies with the ego/body mesh?

xan

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