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From MU:

I have some neemyth friends in my life.
They are so close to awakening.
Because they are so close they become frightened.

Some of them turn away.
Some of them turn petty.
Some of them just stop right where they are.
I love them all. They are me.
Only I know it.

Some of them parrot it back to me.
Some of them just can't understand me.
Some of them have rejected me.
I love them all. They are me.
Only I know it.

What a joyous mystery!
I am awake, they are not, yet.

They may never awaken.
Friends, children, lovers, enemies,
Strangers all to the awakened ones.
One may comprehend the other,
No matter.

Why are they asleep and I am awake?
This is the mystery of life.
I am no better than they.
I cannot awaken them.
I lost everything to gain everything,
I was ready, I had no choice, I had to see.

Why am I awake while they still sleep?
Life will have its mysteries.
They have spiritual riches to protect,
Property to own, positions to enjoy,
Senses and needs to satisfy.
Who can give all that up?

I see within them to the power and the glory
I see within them to the grace and the beauty
I gaze upon their personalities
I gaze upon their shells
It is all the game of the I AM.

Sweet mystery!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There is breaking away, breaking
out of the box.
Then 'breaking' and 'boxes'
are broken.
All falls away of itself.
Simple, as breathing is simple.
Simple, as space is simple.
Not noticed, not intrusive --
as space seems useless,
yet nothing is "there"
without it.

Patience is space,
is peace.
Patience accepts,
strives not to gain.
Patient waiting is being.
Waiting for naught is silence.


MARCIA:
It is interesting how this actually works.Closeley associated
are shocks and buffers. Buffers insulate me from the shock
of seeing all the other me's and thus the realization of
nothingness or no one thingness.

Last night my teenager confided in me a secret which
shocked me. I could see way more than one "me"
running around on the stage of my consciousness.
There was a silent space in me which kept yelling
that nothing had really changed before the secret
was revealed and after the secret was revealed
EXCEPT my perception of how things were. As
I rested in the loud silence eventually each "me"
broke away and I was able to contain the energy
of the shock. Make sense? Or perhaps it is
better described as letting the energy gently
dissipate.


HANS:
Makes sense to me. Whatever little things bother us, they will soon be
forgotten, we won't even remember what it was about. Emotionally loaded
things might take some more time but they too will eventually go up in
smoke.
It happens to me that 10 minutes after an argument, i don't even remember
what it was about. (Bad memory ?) Maybe the silent space you are talking
about was just another thought trying to overule another thought that was
uncomfortable to you. I watch myself doing this all the time. But a thought
is a thought and nothing else. The point is that we should not attach to
this inner conversation by feeding it with our attention. If emotions are
very strong, this becomes rather difficult, but every time i become aware of
it i withdraw my attention from the subject and most of the time that works.
This way we are at least not carried away by useless thought patterns that
are merely repeating themselves all the time and only waste precious energy
and which keep us imprisoned in a useless battle that prevents us from
becoming aware of the space in which all this is happening.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANDREW:

That's how contact with an awakened one works, you see
understanding in them and through seeing that, you see it
in yourself. Once you see it in yourself, you see it in
everybody. As Ramana Maharshi put it, "The jnani sees
no one as an ajnani. All are only jnanis in his sight. In the
ignorant state one superimposes his ignorance on a
jnani and mistakes him for a doer."

XAN:

What can we give another except our certainty of the truth of ourselves.
That is the one true understanding.

I know what you are because I know what I am.

There are times when we say to someone, "That's not it." but if that
is all we say we simply fuel the ego's ongoing battle against itself.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

KRISTI:

I have experienced the list many times as abusive and emotionally
unsafe...so, the question is, why did I stay.....there are many
reasons....not the least of which is that it is a good classroom for
actualizing the notions that what others say and do is NOT a reflection of
who I am, but just a reflection of who they think I am. And, because in a
small way I saw that we are playing out the same themes here that are played
out in the world...and I wanted to see how it would play out differently
among enlightened ones, realized ones.....if the language and experience of
Awareness, actually imbues anyone with "higher consciousness" and the
capacity to transcend the cycle of projection, attack, etc. I have watched
myself and been discouraged by where I'm at...watching myself
respond......watching you respond.....watching the players in the dream who
claim to know that it is a dream and watching my cycle of
expectations....the expectations that others will be different so that I can
watch them and learn to be different myself.

I have no point here....except that what we do and say does have effect on
others....and what others do and say need have no effect on us. I am glad
you are here. And so many others who do point the way....although, I find,
they are rarely those who say they know the way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
from GENE:

ELIMINATING COMPULSION VIA SELF-INQUIRY

The 'work' that is called for or required of the reader, who wants to
profit from participation in a list such as this one, is of course,
'self-inquiry'. Many of us are familiar with this theme in regards to
the specific 'spiritual' or philosophical ways and means advocated by
'Advaita', etc, but self-inquiry is apparently easily forgotten in
the context of 'daily mundane matters' such as reading and replying
to this list. Anger, humor, sarcasm, and self-positioning seem to
become higher priorities than self-inquiry. I ask, why is that? Why
does that happen? Why does someone who says and apparently believes
that they are 'into' self-inquiry, give it up at the drop of an
implication?

Personally, I have profited greatly by questioning my own
attachments, as I participate here. I have exploited the time I spend
with this list for the selfish purpose of becoming aware of just how
I can be 'hooked' by various words or implications which I read. Deep
self-inquiry has become much more habitual for me as a result of this
practice.

I deeply wish this same gain for all participants.


XAN:

Each post read and written an opportunity to see
those same old habits of resistance and judgment.

Each encounter with "like and don't like" a chance
to get the joke of my reactive mind.

Each witnessed reaction a small gray cloud
floating through the one sky of awareness.

Each breath a moment of opportunity for me
to give it all up againagainagain

Each moment a chance to fall back
breaking away
into eternal perfect silent joy


GENE:

The universe of meaning is a small universe. The Vast Living
Universe contains the small universe of meaning. I choose to live in
the Vast Living Universe. Meaning... I can take it or leave it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LARRY shares from "Talks With Ramana Maharshi":

June 22, 1935
A youth of twenty asked how to realize Self. He sat down in silence and
waited more than an hour and then was about to leave. While doing so, he
again asked: "How to realize Self?"

M. Whose Self? Find out
.
D. I do not know.

M. Think. Who is it that says "I do not know"? What is not known? In
that statement, who is the "I"?

D. Somebody in me.

M. Who is the somebody? In whom?

D. May be some power.

M. Find it.

D. How to realize Brahman?

M. Without knowing the Self, why do you seek to know Brahman?

D. The sastras say Brahman pervades all and me, too.

M. Find the "I" in me and then there will be time to think of Brahman.

D. Why was I born?

M. Who was born? The answer is the same for all your questions.

D. Who am I then?

M. (smiling) Have you come to examine me and ask me? You must say who
you are.

D. In deep sleep the soul leaves the body and remains elsewhere. When it
re-enters, I awake. Is it not so?

M. What is it that leaves the body?

D. The power, perhaps.

M. Find out the power.

D. The body is composed of five elements. What are the elements?

M. Without knowing the Self, how do you aim at knowing the elements?

(The young man sat awhile and left with permission.)

The Master remarked later: All right. It will work.

from "Talks With Ramana Maharshi"
------------------------------

It seems to me that Ramana isn't particularly pointing to conscoiusness
or even subjectivity here as an answer, nor a way to disidentify with or
slow down the flow of thoughts. Rather I think he is advising a sort of
active meditation on the sense or feeling of "I". When I say "I" I mean
something by that, although I couldn't exactly say what. I don't really
mean consciousness or a kind of abstract subjectivity. I think the idea
is to let oneself be pulled into the enquiry into what we mean by "I".
Any comments? Can someone put this in better words?


HARSHA:

Yes, you are right Larry. "Talks with Ramana" is truly a unique book. One who
has a close connection with this
approach and Ramana can sense and feel the atmosphere around Ramana and absorb
it by just reading the book. Ramana
Maharshi's sense of Being and Presence was His way of initiating. His Silence,
for those who can feel it, is truly
overwhelming. The Sage of Arunachala's method is simplicity itself. However,
not everyone can be satisfied with
this, as it is the direct route and the usual milestones of certain paths are
absent.

Ramana Maharshi always suggests that one feel the sense of "I". This sense of
"I" is the tip of the iceberg. It is
the "Sat" or "Existence" aspect of the Self/Being manifesting through the
conditioned mind. In an agitated mind it
veils, and in an aware and calm mind, it hints at the Self Present Beauty of
the Heart that is the Eternal Self.
It is this feeling/awareness of "I AM" that meditates through the mind.

Sages have said many times that the spiritual practice is not meant to give
anything new or add anything to us. It
is needed to remove the barrier to Seeing What Is - That which You Truly Are.
Spiritual practice means making
"effort" to remove the fog so the Sight is Clear. Who can make the effort? Only
one who is ready. When through
suffering Karmas have thinned out and weakened, the Soul Longing to Know or
Recognize or Realize It Self asserts
itself through the conditioned mind. It emerges as the feeling/knowing sense of
I AM. This sense of pure self
existence, not tainted by concepts, should be followed to see where it leads.
It is a natural process. Blessings of
the Sages, following the spiritual path with sincerity is bound to lead to the
Natural Self-Knowledge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

NEO and JAN:

neo:
Some say enlightenment comes on the basis of understanding, some in
the presence of silence, some by Grace, some say no reason.
Interesting.

Jan:
If that would be true, there would be a cause for enlightenment so it would
be something finite and worthless :) Enlightenment is unconditional which
means that it will show by itself when conditioning is (temporarily)
dropped. The Kathopanishad is very clear: when ready to face Yama (lord of
death), all conditioning (possessions, like/dislike, opinions, beliefs) are
left behind and what remains is *what is*. Figuratively speaking, Yama is
granting a great boon (unobtainable by other means).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

from LARRY:

here's an interesting article on "Imitating Death In The Quest For
Enlightenment" http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/death.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GILL offered:


These are all from:
'Beyond Self: 108 Korean Zen Poems' by Ko Un

*THE HERMIT*

Jang Ku-Song the hermit was busy shitting
when he heard frogs croaking. It made him
recite

The croaking of frogs on moonlit nights in early
spring
pierces the world from end to end, makes us all
one family.

Look, if you've had your shit,
wipe yourself and get out of here.


*THE LOTUS SUTRA*

The Lotus Sutra. Ultimate reality.
So far
you've been bashing me badly.
Now
I'll cudgel you, bastard.
Oh! Ouch!
Take that too.
Oh! Ouch!
Oh! Ouch!

The Lotus Sutra dashed away.
Fields open wide, once the farmers
have gone.


*A SMILE*

Shakyamuni held up a lotus
so Kashyapa smiled.
Not at all.
The lotus smiled
so Kashyapa smiled.

Nowhere was Shakyamuni!


*WHY KILL?*

Let be. Please, let be.
Kill Buddha
if you meet him?
Kill mother and father
if you meet them? Why kill?
Things made of clay all fall to bits
once soaked by monsoon rains.


*ANANDA*

Even Shakyamuni could never tame Ananda
but Kashyapa kicked him out and tamed him.
Throw away all you know.
Throw away all you don't know.
Then and only then one star shines bright.


*A SHOOTING STAR*

Wow! You recognized me

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CHRISTIANA:

When I first came to this list (12/98) I found that I naively ingested
'other's' words. Some opened my mind, some moved my heart, and some were
like a well placed enema implant. All three movements have expanded and
contracted repeatedly.

The enema implant was often the one most begging attention... well,
discomfort tends to do that. I found repeatedly that certain posts
annoyed the shit out of me. The cramping became a means to notice not
only what I'd ingested, but a vehicle for study about the mechanics of
the digestion process.

So.. I undertook a colonic of the psyche. This resulted in a better
flow of input-output and a sense of resting easier within this 'body'.
Then, however, I noticed a second wave of movement occuring. In an
effort to remain fluid, I was becoming selective about what I ingested
and adopting an 'I don't give a shit' attitude about the rest. Well.. as
one can imagine.. this 'not giving' tends to result in constipation...
aaah.. another colonic.

This brings me to the present.. (finally, eh?) Right now, it feels like
the system is understood enough to attend the language of the 'body'. I
notice that I am not resisting ingesting anything. I no longer blame the
food, nor do I entirely see it as the cause of wellbeing.

... instead.. I offer my self as food.. offered to the Great Being, in
hopes that I no longer am, myself, a source for It's incarnational
malfunction.

'off the intestinal wall'
Christiana
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GLO quotes from "The Life of Shabkar"

"When you are preserving the natural state of mind
This is sheer, unobstructed emptiness,
Free from such limiting concepts as

Existence and nonexistence,
Eternity and nothingness
Going and coming,
Sameness and difference,

Although there is no object of analysis
And no subject who is analyzing,
Do not, like some thoughtless child,
Just indulge yourself in unconsidered actions.

If the wish fulfilling jewel of the view
Is polished over and over again with meditation
And set at the top of the victory banner of action,
It will grant you the fruition you desire, the dharmakaya.~

Regarding the view in terms of relative truth:
With the help of your intelligence and the scriptures
You should examine in many ways, carefully and repeatedly,
How all phenomena of samsara and nirvana
Appear freely, like images in a mirror,
Through the play of various combinations of causes and conditions.

Appearing in such conditions,
Phenomena do not possess even the tiniest shred of true existence.
Just like a rainbow in the sky,
They are apparent yet empty,
Empty yet apparent.

Simply regard the spectacle of empty appearances
Without taking this to have any solid, independent, true existence.

See how the causes and conditions of virtue
Lead to its fruit: happiness.
See how the causes and conditions of nonvirtue,
Lead to its fruit: suffering.

Cultivate love and compassion
For those who do not recognize this.

Like a magician transforming one thing into another,
You must exchange nonvirtue for virtue,
And for the sake of all beings
Release the great waves of Bodhisattva activity.
If you accomplish this perfectly,
The fruit of the rupakaya* will ripen."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ANDREW:

Identity as a failure is part of conditioning (the final part?)
It's comparing yourself as you perceive yourself to some desired self, to who
you wish
you could be. First you see that all your attempts at establishing an identity
are
failures, then even that final judgement of failure also fails, because there's
no
living with it as you say; it dies, you the failure die, then there's no
judgement of
self left, that is acceptance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCIA quotes Gurdjieff:


"To new things one must learn to have new attitudes. you
see, now everybody is listening in his own way, but a way cor-
responding to his inner posture. For example, "Starosta" listens
with his mind, and you with your feeling; and if all of you
were asked to repeat, everyone would repeat in his own way
in accordance with his inner state of the moment. One hour
passes, someone tells something unpleasant to "Starosta," while
you are given a mathematical problem to solve. "Starosta," will
repeat what he heard here colored by his feeling, and you will
do it in a logical form."

"Views from the Real World, Early Talks of Gurdjieff"


I find this absolutely fascinating as I notice if I have been
reading material that I have to keep my attention focused
then I behave much more logically for quite awhile afterwards.
I am influenced but most of the time I am unawares of the
influence and they act upon me without my knowing about
it. These things color and seep into subsequent events. My
life becomes tinted and tainted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JERRY:

I think a person could be on the right track if they sense
they're all alone in what they're doing.

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