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Glo:One of those days we need
highlights of the highlights...it was
all too good
to edit out.
"Are you sleeping, are you sleeping?"
Brother Matthew will ring those
morning
bells to see who is really awake. To
see who is sleeping with who, check
with
xan.

Maybe it's something to do with this
being that extra day of leap year that
inspires OH to write on "K. and frogs
and kangaroos," but she sets our
spines
tingling and the place jumping with the energy of her jazz riff. Who else can
work St. Augustine and sex in with the Upanishads?

***************************************************
Matthew:

Has anyone ever considered just forgetting about all this realization nonsense?
I think we can assume that most people who post to NDS are at least
intellectually familiar with the principal underlying "the search" i.e., the
egoic strategies
that propel us blindly in search of fulfillment or release in the domains of
money, food and sex
are the same strategies that propel our search for realization.
If we actually do understand this principal, then why are we so damned obsessed
with the attainment of enlightenment, or achieving realization or waking up?
Doesn't anyone have anything better to do with their time than trying to wake
up?
It is such silliness, to say nothing of being actually counter productive to
real spiritual work. It's a vicious circle. Our concern with any sort
of attainment or spiritual movement perpetuates the sense of "I" rather than
loosening it
because it is always about ME. My insight, My internal processes, My satori
My kundalini rising, all the fascination with any experience is just more self
reference.
I am not putting down or denying anyone's experiences, but like shit, they just
happen.
So allow me to propose something different.What I would like to suggest
is that we simply treat those in our immediate environment, wherever we
happen to be, with kindness, generosity and compassion.Why? you ask.
It is because that is all we are going to be doing anyway when we "wake up".
The change that happens is a shift of context from being totally self
referenced
(me me me)
to beginning to be "other" referenced. If you look at all the great realized
beings
who have walked the face of the earth [including those that sat like a bump on
a
log
and did "nothing"], what they have all been about is serving the "other", not
serving
themselves. [Except maybe at the local all you can eat buffett]. Different
forms certainly, but contextually they are all the same. So what I am
suggesting
is to just start acting the way we will be when we are actually realized
[and we're not now?] and forget about becoming anything.
If we can actually treat those around us with unwavering kindness, generosity
and
compassion, that is enough.

matthew
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
You got moxy, kid, you got moxy. I like that. ~Jerry
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This all sounds wonderful on paper. The problem is
that people are asleep and sleeping people can't
do anything. All of us want to be able to just act like
a realized person (whatever that means) but we are
practically caught in this never-ending forever cycling
set of patterns. We set out to do one thing and end up
doing just the opposite. The difficulty is not in the
desire to do good or to wake up. The difficulty is
that we don't have practical methods for waking up.
And so we wish or we seek and we end up just the
same as always.We can't act until we can be and we
can't be until we wake up. You want action when we
can't even tie our shoes yet. As long as you believe
that all you have to do is act like a realized person
without really seeing how you are, you will continue
to sleep and dream safe in the assumption that you
are not like all those dummies who sit around and talk
about this stuff. :-)

Marcia
(speaking for herself of course)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My two cents: YES, YES, YES!!!!! I think we do have practical methods
for waking up, and by working this dialogue and extending it into our
lives, we are practicing them. The ego and the intellect may not be the
final goal, but they are tools we are using to acheive that goal. I say
use any tool that helps. Helps what, you ask. Helps us love each
other. Helps us let go of the emotional armor we have erected around
our hearts. If we feel like we are running on a treadmill of emotions
and thoughts, use the will to slow down the treadmill. (I mean meditate
and become aware of the origin and evolution of thoughts so that they
slow down.) If we feel isolated, then become connected. (I mean be
purposefully kind to others. Take the time to look one another in the
eye and smile, or cry in commiseration if that's more appropriate.) If
we are broken by circumstances, then be broken by circumstances. (I mean
actually experience the loss, grief, anger, whatever. Let your heart be
broken, if broken it must be.) When we tell each other that it is all
perfect as it is, we mean that even the pain is perfect. Surrender to
the pain. It can only hurt you if you defend yourself... How scary is
that? Well, don't know... Find out! Go into the fear all the way. Dive
in. Whatever is here is here for our awakening, but we won't wake up
unless we participate.

Well, I think I got passionate on that one. So be it. I'm experiencing
passion in my quest to awaken.

Please know I love you all,
Mark
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TO: Marcia-(as part of the Self... :-)

Great to see the rebuttal. At 2:00 am on chat I was discussing
Shakti with Gene Poole and Matthew. Christianna joined us
to bring in a real life struggle (a friend of hers is dying)
and wanted to ask the same thing about Matthew's post.
I wish you were there in the conversation: Matrix, Gurdgeiff,
Failing to have the strength facing certain challenges,
allowing what ever breaks down to break down, and that words
do not at times do not assist this.

Being freeheart, totally unsatisfied with all this ending
in the same old "two year old's can't tie their own shoes yet"
I persevered.

I found it took being one on one with Christiana before the
application of words could enter the abyss Christiana was
feeling. At 3:45 am.

I want to share "the Doing" I offered her. Gene and I had started
with: Well people die, we "think" this is a fact, but really
what is there? Understandably Christianna felt that this
intellectualizing of her feelings was Aloof. I agreed her,
but would not allow her to be stopped by this.

The words "Original Mind, Open Heart", finally helped.
I asked her to take on "what she could understand" and apply it.
Apply It.
There is no avoiding one's own responsibility here.
Thinking, knowing, understanding are Theory, only a paper version.

I don't know how she is today, but by not enabling her (any of us)
we have to choose. Red pill, Blue Pill. Do you want relief
from this very real thing called suffering? Sleep is just a pretty
word when really facing these things.

freeheart, who knows, says it matters. I feel Christiana's
opportunity is the tangible, the pain itself-the Grace Itself,
and any of our actions in response, shall continue to determine
the sum total of all of our interconnected "lives".

She is very strong. We all are. Maybe this is the permission
all us Two Year Olds really need.

This work is not about any one of us. And there is a savior.
About six billion of them coming.

In Shakti,

freeheart
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jerry finds a reason to like..even (gulp), yes, Deepak Chopra.

Good Friend John Metzger posted this to Allspirit. Don't get
me wrong. I hate Deepak Chopra as much as the next guy for
being so famous, successful, good looking, well-dressed,
articulate, rich, and, mostly, having lots of hair.

Nevertheless...

this article is very good. I now love Deepak Chopra. Thank
you again, John.

------------------------------------------------------------

Deepak Chopra was recently interviewed by Katie Couric on
the Today Show. In all their wisdom, the producers chose not
to air the segment in favor of a piece on the marry a
millionaire scandal.
(snip of story of how it was not aired)

This has been my experience and I am writing this letter as
a learning exercise. I invite everyone who is reading this
letter to join this conversation. Identify an incident in
your life that is challenging you right now and see if you
can look at it from these seven responses. If you have any
experiences you would like to share, you can do so at our
howtoknowgod.com message board. A simple way to identify
which response is predominant at any time is to ask yourself
the following questions:

1st response: Am I running or fighting?
2nd response: Am I offended?
3rd response: Am I centered?
4th response: What is the deeper significance of this
situation?
5th response: What can I create that never existed before?
6th response: How does this affect my relationship with the
larger web of life and transform me and all those affected
by my choices?
In such a situation what would Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed,
Laotsu, Moses, or any other great heroic or archetypal
figure that you admire do?
7th response: Does experience bring me a sense of awe,
reverence for the sacred, connection with divine
intelligence and love for all sentient beings?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sarlo:
Thanks to all who shared their thoughts and insights on the
gender/awakening/masterhoodshipness question. This is an area of
considerable interest to me: where the universal intersects the individual,
can anything be said as a generality -- ie true in most cases with some
exceptions -- about the difference in energy and approach between men and
women? Throwing out the socialized, is there anything "innate" that
continues to express/manifest after awakening? I believe that our era will
herald understanding of this, as many enlightened women start to add their
voices to what has been an almost entirely male territory.
Love, Sarlo >

xan:
~ This question makes me think of the first two hexagrams of the I-Ching.

The first is The Creative - "... the primal power, which is light-giving,
active, strong and of the spirit. ...its essence is power or energy. ... Its
energy is represented as unrestricted by any fixed conditions in space and is
therefore conceived of as motion. Time is considered as the basis of this
motion. ... In relation to the human world, it denotes the creative action of
the holy man or sage, of the ruler or leader of men, who through his power
awakens and develops their higher nature. ... making actual what is potential.

The second is The Receptive - " .... the dark, yielding, receptive primal
power of yin. The attribute ... is devotion (love), its image is the earth.
It is the perfect complement of The Creative - the complement, not the
opposite, for the Receptive does not combat the Creative but completes it.
It represents nature in constrast to spirit, earth in contrast to heaven,
space as against time, the female-maternal as against the male-paternal. ...
this duality appears in the coexistence of the spiritual world and the world
of the senses. But strictly speaking there is no real dualism here, because
... the Receptive is equally important in the attribute of devotion in
relation to the Creative. Only when [The Receptive] abandons its position of
being lead by devotion and tries to stand side by side with the Creative or
to struggle against it does it become evil.

The Receptive connotes spatial reality in contrast to the spiritual
potentiality of the Creative. ... Only because nature in its myriad forms
corresponds with the myriad impulses of the Creative can it make these
impulses real. Nature's richness lies in its power to nourish all lliving
things; its greatness lies in its power to give them beauty and splendor. It
is the Creative the begets things, but they are brought to birth by the
Receptive.

It is not the task of the Receptive to try to lead - that would only make him
lose his way - but to let himself be led.

The earth's condition is receptive devotion. .. it is devotion it carries all
things, good and evil, without exception. In this way one ... is able both
to support and to bear with people and things.


~ My own thought about this is that all things of space, of earth are the
female receptive principle regardless of gender.

I have seen there are three energy forces that comprise the universe - power,
love, and their child, wisdom.

xan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Melody:
¤Looking back at experiences with shifting 'modulation' of
¤energy:
¤
¤1) in prayer some years ago, late at night, I felt an
energy
¤'descend' upon me and experienced it as 'filling me up'.
¤The energy was so intense..so powerful...so full that I
could
¤not hold it. I experienced it as 'Christ' energy, and knew
at that time that there was work I needed to do to 'raise my
¤vibration' to be able to sustain that intensity. It was
love, pure vibrant love, and my system couldn't handle it.

Jan:
That is the general problem when prior to a rush in energy,
there hasn't been a clear recognition of "who one is"; the
energy can be held easily, what prevents it is the notion "I
can't".

The only non-dual connection is that when energy is forced to
travel upwards, it will modify the mind-body as to enable it
to continuously "experience" the Source of energy. To this
purpose, dissecting life force in its many aspects isn't
useful at all: by unifying and re-directing the life force,
the alchemist aims at "cooling" the mind-body to a
"life-temperature of absolute zero".

M: ¤The others felt like 'descending' or a flowing *into* me,
while only one in memory was with the energy apparently rising. The
'rising' of energy felt more like a 'fountain' of sorts. A shooting
up and then 'spray'...or even 'orgasmic' like.
¤
¤So does 'descending' / 'rising' have anything to do with
¤the difference in modulation?.

Jan: The entire "happening" with energy is highly individual, not
in the least because, when it occurs without preparation,
there isn't a common frame of mind. The better one is
prepared, the less one will experience. The best preparation
is a clear recognition of one's real nature.

M:¤ I have experienced other dramatic energy
¤shifts when it felt neither like a descending/ascending,
¤but more like an 'amplification' ( or turning up of
¤a thermostat):

J: Mind is the amplifier, and it can move energy too. This is why
concentration on the third eye is rather powerful.

Serenity and vibrantly full of life aren't mutually exclusive.
Gandhi kept a rather healthy diet (eating the minimum
required) which by itself cranks up energy quite a bit :)

M:¤2) Having my hand shook by the Dalai Lama,
¤it felt very similar to the Gandhi experience. The
¤energy was raised....the frequency was raised...
¤I was quite taken by the realization that the change
¤of energy did not come thru his hand into mine, but
¤rather it felt more like a 'tuning fork' phenomenon.
¤
¤(But none of this matched the intensity of the
¤'Christ' experience)
¤
¤I guess it's really not important that I understand all
¤this, and perhaps it is only 'fascination', but maybe
¤the ability to 'discriminate' energy has some value??

Jan: Discrimination works two ways: to "not this, not this" and
ever expanding "thingness". You choose :)

In order to make identifications, energy is required and to
dissolve them, again energy is required. The +"I" and mine+ is
the easy one, more or less "ordained by nature" as long-term
survival depends on it. The identification called "human
interface" or "what makes one function as a human" is the
"hard nut to crack" as regarding nature, that could be
considered a loss :)

Jan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: Old_Hag, "On K, and frogs and kangaroos

andrew, Melody , Jan and all dears:
little notes re K/chi from garbage pile:

~~Yep, Kundalini rises in 3 nadis (subtle threads) up the spine area
(not the actual spine - well, i know you know that, but just in case)
Bigee in the middle, two less bigee's on either side (Sushumna, Ida and
Pigala).

But, these are not the only nadis K "uses" - there are over 70,000 nadis
throughout the body through which K has a jolly good time cleaning out
ego gook (and of course, chakras have biggest piles.).

That is why each person's K experiences are different, because the
flavor of the experience depends on what personal gook is being cleaned
out. One may have visions, one may jump like a frog - this is not
surprising however when one is small and green, one may see lights, one
may feel depressed, and so on. These are just manifestations of the
blockages in the nadis (and chakras) that dear K is working on.

~~K also "descends" - teachers and K experiencers have described the
rising (from the base of spine) "and" the descending (from crown area)
of K. "Descending as a shower" is a common expression.

K will go up and fool around with lover (Shiva) but not "do" it many
times (then she goes back down and rises again - the tease!) "Having
drunk, having drunk, having again drunk," (Tantra), or she will whisper
sweet nothings "I'm comin' darlin'" and this foreplay touches the
pleasure buttons in our brains. We have an "experience" of insight,
bliss, a glimpse of non-duality, and we think "Wow! i am realized!!
Better run and post on the NDS list."

But these "enightenments" will happen often before the big O, best to
not take them so seriously, putting ego labels on them and all - maybe
just sit back and enjoy. Besides, K not too happy with kinky threesomes,
and has to go work then on getting rid of "I am realized" blockage in
Nadi #53,467 - takes more time then 'til Precious Union.

"I was swept up to Thee by Thy beauty, and torn away from Thee by my own
weight." St. Augustine

~~Don't think there could be more than one "life force," eh? K, chi,
whatever, perhaps they are all the same energy, just different
traditions naming them and working with them. Perhaps there is life
force and it is called chi or it is called K or it is called Great
Kangaroo - this is not surprising when one is large and brown, but when
it is "awakened" to an intensity that begins to clean out all the
chakras/nadis (beyond our control), than it is more commonly called K as
in a Kundalini Awakening. However, some traditions "do" mention the
Great Kangaroo awakening - there you go.

K has been described (Avalon's Serpent Power) as having two forms of
energy at the same time: static (coiled potential energy at the base of
spine), and dynamic (providing life's forces.) The energy expended in
the life's forces does not take away energy from the coiled serpent -
H.H. the Great Pair o' Docs.

"The whole is subtracted from the whole and yet the whole remains."
(Upanishad).

When she's awakened, K as the life force is still doing her thing
(albeit diminished proportionally as the lovemaking gets heated up), but
the driving force is to unite with Her Lover above the crown (at that
point life force is diminished so much body becomes very cold,
corpse-like.).

"With his gentle hand he wounded my neck, And caused all my senses to be
suspended."

~~When a being has their K running around very strongly or she's already
up there smoking a cigarette, you touch their hand or even just get near
them, or touch something they have touched, or look into their eyes, or
see their picture, or even read their words on the net! (yep, happens a
lot) your own K is aroused (In some people gets aroused very easily -
horny little dickens.)

"I was
as if the fire in the tree burned the tree
as if the sweet smells of the winds of space took over the nostrils as
if the doll of wax went up in flames. I saw Her Eyes and lost the
world." Prabhu

~~Even though we may feel like it is coming from "outside," the only K
we "feel" is inside us. Course it doesn't belong to us - formless,
changeless, no boundaries/limitations, but you know all that stuff.

"The Spirit is playing,
The Spirit is longing,
The Spirit with fancy creating all,
Surrenders himself to the bliss of love..
Amid the flowers of His creation, He lingers in a kiss..
Blinded by their beauty, He rushes, He frolics, He dances, He whirls,
He is all rapture, all bliss, in this play
Free, Divine, in this love struggle."
Skryabin

Well, that's all - just some notes about K from garbage pile (maybe
right, maybe wrong, maybe up, maybe down, maybe only H.H. the Great
Jumper knows for sure) to do with what thou wilt.

love you all,
oh

"I remained, lost in oblivion; My face I reclined on the Beloved. All
ceased and I abandoned myself, Leaving my cares forgotten among the
lilies." St.John

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marcia Paul wrote:
The only irritation I experience is not from
trivialities unless teenagers and an old senile man count. :-)

Jan:
Few people are so blessed as to recognize their close and
loved ones are a kind of guardian angels or even
Buddhas_in_disguise "on the path" :)
¤>
¤>
Glo:We are blessed to have you to remind us tho... :):)

Jan: Thank you Glo. It doesn't only hold true for family, it goes
for living conditions as well. When accepting that conditions
"as are" have to be optimum for "unfolding", no energy is
wasted on negativity, criticizing, comparing with those
perceived less/more fortunate etc.; activities the "ego" is
rather fond of :)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Andrew:

...everything in the universe - whether earth, grass, tree, fence, tile, or
pebble -
functions as a manifestation of enlightenment; and those who receive the
effects
of this manifestation realize enlightenment without being aware of it.

This is the merit of nondoing and nonstriving - awakening to the Bodhimind.

from Shoshogi (Soto Zen sutra)

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