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#2683 -
The Nondual Highlights
Three things in this
issue: an invitation to a retreat with cee, which I've mentioned
before. Link to an interesting video showing photos and actual
film of Ramana Maharshi. Third, a dialogue with the teacher known
as bindu.
The Way of
Knowledge Meditation Retreat with Cee is being held
Further details such as
the day-to-day schedule are available as a hard copy
brochure. If anyone would like one mailed to them, write me
at jerry@nonduality.com.
Archive films and photos
of Ramana Maharshi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvIlhN0frdY
[Editor's note: bindu
conducts dialogues on MSN Messenger, and what is shown here is
such a dialogue copied from Messenger. I've deleted some
non-essential information to protect the identity of the
questioner. --jk.]
dear friends i thought
that this is a nice chat that some may like...
with love and respect
bindu
Merry Christmas to all...
and be safe in the new year...
bindu: Namaste how are
things?
sadhu: Hello I'm doing
pretty well. I was just reading your Bhairava tantra and also
seeing how the version I have compares.
bindu: mm
sadhu: I have the Swami
Stysangananda Saraswati version called The Ascent.
bindu: mm. i have not
seen that one
sadhu: I don't understand either of them very well in places.
bindu: how long have you
been into yoga?
sadhu: I like the methods
that expand spaciality. I have been meditating since 1971, but
wish I had made more progress. About 35 years.
bindu: mm... can i ask
your age?
sadhu: When I began, I
meditated a lot, about 8-12 hours a day and did that for about
10-12 years. Then about 1-3 hours per day after that. I'm 60
years old.
bindu: mm... i see.. do
yoiu have children ... married. etc?
sadhu: Married. No
children. Wife also meditates.
bindu: uhuh, where in the
world do you live?
sadhu: I'm living in
[deleted]
bindu: what is your
profession in your life?
sadhu: In school, I
majored in engineering physics, but didn't work as an engineer
long. Before that, I played music. Now, my wife and I teach
Quantum-Touch, a method of healling.
bindu: ah! excellent....
so hence the focus on method (your interest in bhairava ) what
instrument do you play?
sadhu: I play guitar,
sing, recorder, a little keyboard, etc. Yes, I feel like I could
have made more progress if I had understood more how to practice.
bindu: mmm: so i take it
you had no formal teachers in yoga that is...
sadhu: I first did the TM
thing and took it as far as it went, with the siddhis, etc. Then
I read and met Ramamurti Mishra, then studied a bit with Sharon
O'Hara, but was difficult to understand her methods. I also met
and took some teachings from Ravi Shankar, the pundit.
bindu: uhuh, i don't know
of sharon o'hara
bindu: Have you studied
siva sutra?
sadhu: Sharon and Patrick
O'Hara (patrick deceased) was instructed by Yogananda's teacher
from the other side.
bindu: mmm,: i see.
sadhu: I read your
version of the Shiva sutra just recently and liked it. The 3
sections of it. I have also read the Gita of course and the
Bhagavatam, a version from Motilal Banarsiddas.
bindu: mmm. So would you
say you resonate somewhat with the idea of krishna, and or the
existence of deity?
sadhu: Yes. I resonate
with Krishna and existence of deity. Mishra gave me the name Shri
Rama Govinda, but I don't use it in this society, but it confirms
my interest in that form. I also like Shiva for his compassion.
I have noticed with all
the teachers that have been teaching, and all of the students,
that not many have reached the goal, or even it seems made much
progress.
bindu: oh yes that is
very true and often quite sad. Have you read or studied the
Ramayana?
sadhu: Yes, my wife and I
are reading the Ramacharita Manasa in the evenings at bedtime.
It's Tulisidas' version of the Ramayana. She hasn't read it
before, but we are slowly going through it.
bindu: excellent.... do
you know, that like the Gita ... it is about the inner-quest to
free the soul from the ego?
sadhu: Yes, although it
appears to be stories. It seems to be interpreted as Rama
(spirit) and Sita (manifestation) in a play.
bindu: yes. Just as in
vaisnaivism there are referrences to Radhe and Krishna (same idea
again) in fact this idea runs thru-out all hindu works.. The
following and practice of which comprise hinduism ( the
Hindu's themselves know it as the Sanatan-Dharma )... many many
ways to refer to the same dual-nature of being and consciousness.
sadhu: Yes, lately I've
been on YouTube listening to Nithyananda talk on the Bhairava
Tantra. But he's just getting started. I was looking for some
good translations so I could understand and choose a program of
methods to move me forward faster.
bindu: mm, i see.
sadhu: I was trying to
discover which methods are the easiest and most fruitful and
which ones could be combined. Mishra used to say that combined
methods bring combined power. Also which sequence would be most
successful.
bindu: Have you ever seen
or read anything by Ramana Maharshi?
sadhu: No, not that I
remember. Maybe in a bookstore.
bindu: mm. how about
non-dual philosophies?
sadhu: I presume you mean
Ramana Maharishi. I have seen photos, but I wasn't drawn to him
at the time.
bindu: Yes.
sadhu: Did he write on
the Bhairava Tantra?
bindu: No i think not...
his focus was mainly on one-on-one and simple direct and pithy
discourse.
I must appologize for all
these questions they are intended to get a feel for the
composition of your understanding as regards the philosophy ..
sadhu: I didn't get to
pursue all the teachers. I tried to stay with the ones I learned
from as far as I could go. But maybe I should have been more
eclectic. I've read many of the eastern and western scriptures
and I feel like I understand them. I am just not yet at the
experience of them.
bindu: mmmm ok.
sadhu: I found Misra's
"Textbook of Yoga Psychology" (Patanjli's Yoga Sutras)
and "Fundamentals of Yoga" to be the best I have read
so far. Now I am learning about Tantra which I had discarded
before, being told it was mostly a lower, sex oriented method. I
did not understand the higher Tantra.
bindu: mmm
sadhu: In your
experience, what are the most valuable methods of practice?
bindu: Well, in all the
books you have read there is an underlying thread running thru
all - the thread is one -pointedness; either expressed as single
devotion or as persistence in one form or another.
sadhu: Yes.
bindu: My path is about
one-pointed use of the WILL in a certain way... it is a path that
is all inclusvie or integral..
sadhu: Play has not been
a big part of it. And Tantra seems to endorse bliss and play
more. How does WILL fit in.
bindu: mm
sadhu: I presume you mean
will, not as effort or force. Tantra doesn't seem to endorse
force very much.
bindu: Well Siva sutra
Siva says that ... "By non-contemplation of ME are you
bound"
bindu: so the path is
about developing the Will to remain in constant meditation upon
the indwelling self (Siva) even while going about in everday
life; this results in freedom in all modes of consciousness; but
make no mistake it is HE who is free it is not the Jiva.
sadhu: Yes, it seems that
we have to become as familiar with consciousness as we are with
matter. How is WILL applied to remain absorbed in Self?
bindu: This
Self-absorption is called sahaj samadhi, the emphasis is not upon
the bliss-consciousness < as this bliss is the mind-body
reaction to the connection... it is not the realization the
challenge is to remain free in all modes of consciousness (again
Siva Sutra Says" HE" (Siva) " is free in all modes
of His own consciousness.
This freedom is got by
developing the Will to remain in the Self. The Will in all of us
is what the sutra calls the iiccha-Sakti. Developing this
one-pointedness is the most powerful, best and fastest way to
realization.
sadhu: I understand
Turiya as the state underlying all states. I experience some
degree of this continuity. What exactly is will? What is WILL?
bindu: mmm. Well normally
people say "MY WILL" as if it belongs to the
jiva.......... (to who they think or define themselves as)
sadhu: Yes, and willpower
is the assersion of commitment. But I think you are referring to
something deeper.
bindu: they even say
"MY MIND" as if there is another who HAS a mind
.......... my body my arm, my emotion, my love, my heart ......
and so on . as if there is another . they say 'i"
"me" mine" etc... that one that is referred to in
all those lines above is the ego... the jiva . the so-called
individual soul.....
sadhu: Yes. I understand
the nature of the small self and it's narrow identification.
bindu: But dear since
there is no such thing as a self that is separate from THE SELF,
the little self is an illusion hence so is the limited will. For
example the sutra says that by referrence to himself as
jiva-self.... "HE (Siva) is limited in both will and
efficacy";
sadhu: Yes. But how to plug into the Will of the higher Self?
bindu: The 1st step is to
come to understand how the jiva does not exist as any-self aware
being or existent entity then we can move on.. but until this is
fully understood and accepted we can only go arond in circles....
sadhu: Yes, I understand
that it is an illusion covering the higher Self. The sense of
separateness is not real. But it is experienced as
"real".
bindu: mm. so then if you are willing i would like to introduce
you to some concepts which are really out there...
sadhu: Yes, I would like new concepts.
bindu: yes it is... but
these pages will give you a different slant on it http://www.upnaway.com/~bindu/yogicfire/jiva/jivaindex.htm
bindu: if you find them to your liking we can proceed to erase
the problem in your sadhana.
sadhu: I'm looking at the
page, be right back.
bindu: However it is my
experience that most people have the flaw of thinking that they
(themselves) can realize the truth... that is impossible.
sadhu: I will have to
take some time with the page. I do understand the the jiva is
Spirit and that jiva doesn't realize Spirit, but becomes IT when
the obstacles, the mis-identification ceases.
bindu: good good... but
the jiva does not BECOME it dissolves into the whole like ice in
water.
sadhu: How to break that
false identification with externals?
bindu: You cannot ..It is
like unto being in a room that has no doors.. there is no way
out.
sadhu: Yes, I like the
idea and experience of melting into the absolute.
bindu: the only way out
is IN -- how to do that?
bindu: 1st no one can do
anything.. so then one never DID anything ... going inward one
sees that all this is inside The Self.... it is displayed in HIS
conscious being AS His consciousness-light-existence.
There are 1st the
emotional levels which get more and more sublte then we come to
the astral planes... ALL within HIM.u: then we see that there is
no physical world at all.. it is in fact all spirit. then we see
that it is emanating from His conscious being; in fact His being
is also existing as consciousNESS which takes the form of a
universal light body all within His CONSCIOUS Absolute < i am
not saying absolute consciousNESS as that is an incorrect way to
think of it ... as if his conscious being were an aspect or
attribute of somehting else for example consciousNESS is had by
or noticed by some being or other; while the conscious absolute
is an open ended oneness that is infinite which has existence
displayed within it like a dream or multiplicit reflection of its
own nature (omniscient omnipresence which is the definition of an
infinite being) in short existence IS ITS ACTUAL CONSCIOUSNESS
while it itself is beyond consciousness. Hence the referrence to
SELF which is made by saying my this or that or I AM this or that
is implied in the saying.
sadhu: So there is this Conscious Presence which is the container
of everything. And this conscious presence creates consciousness
upon which this world is a projection made out of the same stuff.
bindu: Not exactly
correct.What you say is correct, but there is a slight error..
The conscious ever
present transcendental being does NOT ACTUALLY CREATE, as if by
an act of WILL; existence exists AS it... it simply comes into
being as a result of the existence of the Self.... the Self does
nothing. thus also the karma that is said to belong to a being is
not belonging to that being at all, it belongs to the Self, the
karma simply m,akes the jiva what he is and gives him his
nature... additionally since the karma of all beings belongs to
the self so also does the Kriya and the jnana.
For example in gita Krishna says : "Oh Arjun, all things
exist IN MY POTENCY". His existence in Himself prior to the
Smanifestation of existence is comprised of HIS potency or
potential... < this is his omnipotent WIll or as Siva sutra
calls it " It is HIS iiicchaa - sakti (Will potency and
power).
This shines forth AS existence, it is also called tejesa .... it
begins as the nila-bindu and by multiplicit reflection within
itself and within each reflected particle of the 1st it builds up
the whole cosmos ... it just IS.
Then what exists, exists
- because He appears in it AS it; it is named the mother or radhe
or such. Another example is that in upanishad, it is said He
created the world and sent His sakti into all of existence as the
female he then decended to the world and fornicated with her in
all beings.
.
This means that the wWill and consciousness create existence. The
consciousness is called sri tripura
given a female aspect ... the Will is Siva existing in ALL
beings.
bindu: Sita (the soul) is
seen as His female... God made eve from Adams rib etc..
bindu: So then when we
practice the high tantra. we can use visualization of gods making
love inside us thru our bodies..... or we can use the one-pointed
focus of directing the WIll to the self itself.
The latter removes the
jiva from the picture, while visualization of the gods is to
remain an observer existing as jiva and is hence selfish.
sadhu: So how is the Will
applied to resolve the false identification and allow the
Conscious Being to shine forth as us? What is the
"method" that causes "directing the Will" to
the self.
bindu: 1st we have to understand that THE WILL so - to - speak IS
NOT OURS..... hence it is NOT "THE WE" who directs
it...
we have to let go of the ridiculous idea that WE (the jeeva )
have free will.
sadhu: Yes, the WILL is
not an attribute of the small self. Yet, something must allow
this WILL to become active.
bindu: yes... we will
see...To come at an answer to this i will come at it
indirectly.......
We said earlier
that the iichaa-sakti manifests existence as a matter of
course simply because HE exists... that sakti enters all beings
as the WILL .. .the WILL impels the jiva to evolve to the
realization of Himself.... this causes ALL evolution... physical,
spiritual and genetic.... it manifests as the countless beings in
both form and nature.... on all levels and lokas (this is how he
is omnipresent and omniscient ... knowing Himself on all levels
thru all beings )...... hence it does NOT BECOME active..... it
IS active...
bindu: so then when the sahdu is ready He will come and make the
jiva reflect His wisdom in a certain way so that the mirror shows
Him His true identity.
sadhu: Yes, so how do we
as "jiva" cooperate with the Divine to allow this
transformation?
You have reached this
evolutionary state.... hence here we are. So then the how of it
is this>>>
1st understand that no
process, method, practice... or attitude that the jiva can employ
will assist him
bindu: he has to totally give up all ideas that he (the jiva) can
achieve it .... because the very idea is an oxymoron.
Jiva wants to be free,
but to be free he has to lose his limited beingness or die to the
idea that HE IS JIVA.So then he has to teach his mind to reside
in the Self.... but that too is very difficult ... because the
mind and jiva arise simultaneously - they are like
conjoint-twins.
So then...... now we come
to the indirect part. let us take a step back.
1st we should notice that
HE who IS INSIdE ALL beings ....... is the only one who
speaks...... it is HE who says "i" "me"
"mine" or "i am " etc.... there is NO such
being as the jiva saying this..... indeed the referred to being
(who is indicated in all the above references as if it were an
entity) is the jiva.... hence the jiva cannot refer to himself.
So then, the "I
AM" who exist in all beings IS ACTUALLY SIVA or THE SELF! So
to come at it indirectly we should approach the one-pointed focus
with this understanding.
We must come to accept
THE SELF AS SELF instead of suscribing to Jiva as Self.
bindu: We do this by Japa
of a mantra that states this fact.... in short we simply
reprogram the minds idea of selfhood via positive and affirmative
statements..hence mantra.
bindu: Again due to the
fact that the Self in all is THE SELF,there can be no free WILL
owned by jiva... hence it is the WILL of the Self that is
employed in the one pointedness to recognize Himself.So it is the
actual implementation of self recognition. This is the essence of
vijnana-bhariava.
sadhu: i do not exist,
SHIVA, SELF exists and operates through this body.
bindu: Yes, and thru all
bindu: So then,all the dahrana's in the tantra lead to the
recogntition that the WILL must be employed to do the practice...
so do not do the practice ... use the source instead...ie. the
iicchaa sakti ... turn it back upon itself this alone will
suffice for very fast progress.....
Also understand that
meditation is not for its own sake or for the experiences.. it is
for the developement of the WILL the same applies to hatha and
iyenga as well as the early stages of Patanjali yoga. Hence He
attains freedom in all the modes of His own consciousness. That
freedom consists in the recogntion that He is already free in all
as the Self.....
this promotes acceptance, love, tolerance, and compassion for all
beings since they are the Self.... here then is where knowledge
becomes ignorance and love becomes wizdom.
bindu: Thus a man who has gotten rid of himself lives as a normal
being but internally that man is not himself, he has lost
himself, he has gone beyond as the tibetans say... this is
self-realization.
It is not that anyone got enlightened... the SELF is always
enlightened. He is Siva, Vishnu, God, Jehovah, Krishna or
whatever else we want to call God.... He is not that MAN, or
JIVA. He is clothed in existence itself... but removing the
clothes yeilds no-self who has any limited being that can be
known in any language because language appears IN HIM.. it is nto
the other way around... HE appears AS language AS mantra AS Being
and consciousness.
bindu: Dear you might
like this poem......
http://groups.msn.com/AnantaYogaSchool/satsang.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=94&LastModified=4675504811449549478
sadhu: Why is it that
WILL needs development if it is Shiva's? It is already WILL fully
or not.
bindu: ah! ... good good
good that you see this
sadhu: I'm reading the
poem.
bindu: so then we have
spoken of the 1st step; You are talking of the 2nd step now...
bindu: >>> Why is it that WILL needs development if it
is Shiva's? It is already WILL fully or not.
sadhu: I will come back
to the poem. It's a bit long.
bindu: sure, as you wish.
bindu: The 2nd step is to
transform the mind by the recognition of what you just stated...
so then hold the focus upon that idea and surrender into the idea
that the correct stance in relation to the 2nd step is to
recognize that to move out of that idea as if you exist is to
subscribe to Jiva as Self...
bindu: so in this level
the recommendation is to remain in Self and to cease trying to
become (go out of the Self)
bindu: since you are already the Self existing as existence...
practice of this is to let go of all ego-based drives....
bindu: become nothing, remain as nothing;this is not negation of
something, nor is it nihilism. It is based in the truth of the
sakti as described above. It is to remain in the potential,
focussed lovingly upon the Self.
Thus Japa is very useful
here; to that end i give my students this mantra.
bindu: Om.... Soham ...
Om
bindu: it means: I AM
.... I AM HE ... I AM.
bindu: in english Om
means I AM (i exist as THE I AM )
bindu: Soham is the
CONSCIOUS SELF (Siva, God etc) So we do japa of it.
bindu: Om....pause
reflect between breathes ..Soham ....pause reflect between
breathes Om ....pause reflect between breathes ..
repeat.
sadhu: OK . I reflect on
the meaning.
bindu: Do this mentally
silently in every moment that your mind is free of involvment in
the outer world.
Reflect like
this>>> I AM .... I AM HE ... I AM. Do not let it refer
to the idea that the ego is HIM
but that the referrer is HIM existing as existence.
sadhu: That allows the
WILL to come from that side.
bindu: YES! exactly.
sadhu: OK to share this
with my wife?
bindu: of course, or who
ever you like..may i ask to put it on line as it might be useful
to others?
sadhu: Thanks for your
help. I'll read the pages you sent. Yes. You can use this
discourse any way you like.
sadhu: Thank you.
bindu: __/|\__ welcome