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LARRY BIDDINGER

The Tibetan version of the bodhisattva
vow runs something
more or less like, I vow to realize
enlightenment in order
to deliver maximum help to all others.
I draw two main
inferences from this. One, what we are
here for is to help
others; and the other, the best help
is enlightenment. So
if anyone is wondering how can I help
... everyone all
together, the answer is always
"realize enlightenment".

Thanks to everyone for this great
encouragement.
__________________________________________________________________

VANNA BONTA (via Jerry)


Nondualism is the the grasp by consciousness that there is
senior existence beyond dichotomy. Nonduality is the
outershell of Time-Space existence. Nondualism is the ALL
beyond and before the particle; it is the ONE and zero
contained on both sides of polarity, the UNI before all
form.

FLIGHT A Quantum Fiction Novel by Vanna Bonta
http://members.aol.com/meridianOL/flight.htm
____________________________________________________________________
ROGER ISAACS

There seem to be two distinct levels here:
The first: subtle personal effort is required to move into a
state of receptivity or stillness.
The second: once in receptive stillness nothing else can be
done, transformation or Grace or a 'glimpse' can occur, but
clearly no volition or effort can ever trigger the glimpse.

The various diverse paths of Yoga are the 'subtle effort' or
'routes'. Yet the routes are in themselves only useful for
stilling the mind. Then Grace descends into that stillness.

I ask myself 'what subtle effort can I initiate to still the
mind which then might create the conditions for
transcendence'. Note the emphasis on subtle effort which
leads to 'NO effort'!

My experiences:
1) using a discriminative approach 'neti-neti' or 'not this,
not this', with attention on turning thought against itself
or attention on stilling thought, stillness & subsequent
transcendence might occur.
2) using an approach based in sensation, such as putting
attention into the body or chakras & the sensations & subtle
energy there, stillness & transcendence may occur.
3) much less frequently for me: spontaneous emotional
expansion, feeling Love towards someone or something, this
too can lead to transcendence. But for me personally this
is not something I can reproduce by subtle effort, it just
happens occasionally. And I think this just means my
mind-body is more geared to discrimination rather than
devotion. Other people are probably just the opposite.
4) I sure there are other ways (see my web site) but I'm not
as tuned into them. TM mantra meditation worked to some
degree for me but didn't seem to be best suited to my
particular needs.

There are examples of this 2-3 level distinction in the
literature, but that would be too dry!

It's useful for me to realize that subtle effort is required
& I need to engineer this. I need to arrange my life &
discover what practices encourage deeper stillness.
However, this effort must end in no effort, must end in
stillness beyond any trace of effort.

IMHO teachers, various advaita teachers, who teach that 'no
effort' is required to reach God or 'nothing at all must or
can be done' are delivering only part of the equation. They
are misleading!! Subtle effort is useful for nearly
everyone, but the effort must lead to stillness or a state
of effortless communion.

Roger http://www.newu.org
____________________________________________________________________
GLORIA LEE

Being "free from interpretation by others" allows the
experience itself to be the teacher, tho obviously one could
be more open with interpretations. The idea of a teacher
initiating and guiding one step by step really seems the
best. I read about this with Tibetan monks and the series
of initiations. It is all experiential, not book learned..
and the teacher only knows what will come next. I think
there is more general awareness of meditation and more
teachers available here in the USA, but there would be quite
a ruckus over bringing this into the schools. I'd also like
to hear of anyone's experiences trying to share about
nonduality out there in the world.

JAN BARENDRECHT

Not knowing has been a tremendous blessing. Never having
seen adults, worthwhile of taking as an example, meant
"being a light onto myself" and yama & niyama came natural.
The direct knowledge that came spontaneously can only be
found fragmented in various books. Having been taught in a
lineage or along a well defined system not only would have
meant a lot of mental waste but no teacher could have
answered a few fundamental questions.

What would have been suited is general nondualism, only
giving an outline and the links with existing religions. If
there would have been a teacher (teaching in silence) who
could have served as the example of "ideal" adult that would
have been very fortunate indeed. But regarding (part of)
the spontaneous practice, no one could have given it and it
isn't in any book. It certainly would have caused a riot in
many established systems :)

SKYE CHAMBERS

Its bloody difficult isn't it [ trying to share about
nonduality out there in the world.] :-) Shojiro and i were
discussing this just last night. It could threaten the
collapse our whole commercial structure as we know it and
the value of romantic relationships *as we know them*,
because 90% of our imagined needs would be wiped out.

Shojiro practices a radical form of permaculture as taught
by "Fukuoka" (type in "seedballs" and you can learn about it
on the net). It is radical in that it is "Do Nothing"
farming one just throws the seeds into the very environment
that is compatible with them and they naturally proliferate,
no machinery, no thought, just using natures laws. Where as
permaculture takes the first steps into thought with its no
dig and companion planting, which is okay too because its
not too much. But fukuoka suggests touching nothing and
using the already existing intelligent forces of nature.
Bill Morrison the founder of permaculture learnt most of
what he knows from Fukuoka.

JERRY KATZ

Yes, nondual farming. This is a good link:

http://www.seedballs.com/2seedpa.html

Being non-moderated, this list is very much like the natural
farming of Fukuoka, for we allow the seeds and soil to be,
without doing much.

As far as sharing nonduality in the world, children and the
elderly naturally take to nondual understanding, because
they are both close to being and non-living. The rest of
the world's caught up in holding on to life, security and
structure, and building pens and cages.

I do envision that what is seen here in the Salon and also
with natural farming, will prevail over methods which seek
to control and bend nature. Really, there is no other way
to go.

It will be interesting to see these 'seed and do-nothing'
models spread into education and business, for example. The
model has worked well here, so far, though many would
disagree. Those who would disagree, I'm sure, have their
fair share of poundable lions.

"In nature, the world of relativity does not exist. The
idea of relative phenomena is a structure given to
experience by the human intellect. Other animals live in a
world of undivided reality. To the extent that one lives in
the relative world of the intellect, one loses sight of time
that is beyond time and of space that is beyond space."
-Masanobu Fukuoka- (via Andrew Macnab)

JAN BARENDRECHT

Skye had said: Its bloody difficult isn't it [ trying to
share about nonduality out there in the world.] :-) Shojiro
and i were discussing this just last night. It could
threaten the collapse our whole commercial structure as we
know it and the value of romantic relationships *as we know
them*, because 90% of our imagined needs would be wiped out.

Jan responds: For a sensible mind it won't be a matter of
choice; the present commercial structure will collapse
because a large part of its cost is shoveled onto the back
of coming generations (like foreseeable droughts and
flooding due to climate change). A collapse will mean chaos
and probably war whereas a gradual change, starting with
nonduality as the basis for happiness, will avoid chaos
although society then would be likely to develop into a kind
of Ahimsa based anarchy. Continuing "business as usual" or
"the way of selfishness" has been the default assumption for
all so called "doomsday predictions".
______________________________________________________________________

Horse Races --

Several racehorses are in a stable. One of them starts
boasting about his track record. "Of my last 15 races," he
says, "I've won eight."

Another horse breaks in. "Well, I've won 19 of my last 27!"

"That's good, but I've taken 28 of 36," says another,
flicking his tail.

At this point a greyhound who's been sitting nearby pipes
up. "I don't mean to boast," he says, "but of my last 90
races, I've won 88."

The horses are clearly amazed. "Wow," says one after a
prolonged silence, "a talking dog!"

--from the Aham list

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