The Highlights  Issue #1076

Saturday, May 18, 2002

Edited by John Metzger

Highlights Home Page: http://nonduality.com/hlhome.htm

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 NDS  Non-duality is a limited perspective
==Gene Poole==
Roger Isaacs www.newu.org 

Dear Gene:
Non-duality is two things:
#1) a living reality
#2) a philosophy educating [wo]man about ultimate reality.

G.
"Non-duality is two things:" ???
No, nonduality is one thing; 'only one'... 'not two'.
Nonduality is... nonduality.

R.
You say that non-duality is inclusive: As a livingreality yes. But as a philosophy it is exclusive!!!

G.
Nonduality is not a philosophy.
Nonduality 'contains' all duality; thus it is inclusive.

R.
The Astavakra Gita sums it up: "You practice meditation?This indeed is your bondage!". Or as Gene says in areply to Rashmi a few days ago:
"Seeking realization is symptomatic of ignorance..."

G.
How do those statements go together?

R.
Non-duality is a polar opposite to meditation.
Non-duality is characterized by effortless being,
meditation is the practice of subtle
effort culminating or ending with the transcendence
of effort. And non-duality is _perfect_ in it's exclusivity. It
must forever remain exclusive to provide the natural
counter point to meditation. Both meditation
(subtle effort) and non-duality (effortless being) are
essential & perfect... but neither is inclusive.
Meditation is the art of seeking rightly
(maturing into the experience of non-duality), and
non-duality is the art of non-seeking (rightly).

G.
An interesting perspective...

R.
Non-seeking is appropriate ONLY AFTER the preparatorypractices of seeking have culminated in the fruitionof receptive inner stillness.

G.
This point is at least, debatable.

R.
The ego is quick to proclaim "I am beyond seeking", but
this is just another deception!
Without the preparatory practice of meditation,
non-duality philosophy can be ***DANGEROUS***.
Having been seduced by the flowery elitist
philosophy of non-duality... a person might abandon
seeking prematurely or fail to see the value in
seeking. Satisfied with the mere concepts of
non-duality... a person will likely fail to realize
the truth by direct perception.

G.
"flowery elitist philosophy..." "...dangerous"... Hmmm...

R.
Non-duality should take a strong dose of that very
useful advice from "Dirty Harry" Callahan (Clint Eastwood
in the movie Magnum Force, 1973):
"A man (or in this case a philosophy) has got to know his limitations."

G.
He also said: "Go ahead, make my day".
I hope you can apply your advice to yourself, Roger.

R.Non-dual Consciousness contains all, the philosophy of
non-duality is a limited (but perfect) perspective.
Sprinkled all over the www.nonduality.com you will see
references to "Advaita Vedanta", the Indian philosophy
expounding non-duality.
There are six different systems of Indian philosophy: non-duality& yoga
(the science of meditation) are but two. The ancient Indians
understood a key characteristic of non-duality that has thus far
failed to be appreciated in this modern revival: non-duality as
a system of thought is a partial perspective. Non-duality in it's
pure form (as Astavakra beautifully reminds us) knows
meditation to be bondage. This is a partial perspective suited to
individuals at a particular stage of the spiritual quest.
Meditation is another partial perspective essential for a holistic
understanding. The two systems (non-duality & meditation)
are mutually  exclusive in many regards and consideration of
both is wise. (since we're quoting Clint Eastwood I have to add 
"Opinions are like assholes: everyone has one.").
From another angle: An enlightened [wo]man speaks rooted in
the reality of non-duality (hey, I can rhyme) issuing words which
form concepts in the brain of a dualistic listener.
The concepts of non-duality in the dualistic brain are just another
belief system. It's a system of thought!
No need to be concerned about me, Gene. After an unintended
but delightful meal the other night of Ben & Jerry's Cherry Garcia
ice cream and "Zonker stout" beer with no side effects... I'm ready
to proclaim my immortality. Hope I "made your day". :-)

  'Beloved' appears to man doing calisthenics in the desert, or, manabout to jump off a cliff, or, enter your own caption here___________. 

 NDS
focus 

i would like to offer you a system that will make non-duality real.
can't do it! heeheehee

do have a suggestion though.
focus on awareness
not your awareness or mine or some dead guy or some popular
teacher
just awareness - focus on that and maybe all the ideas about
awareness will fall away.

are you the character you are playing?
yes, no, maybe, you don't know?

well it is so much easier to believe in awareness than it is to
open up to awareness. yes, of course it's a concept! so what?

you aren't afraid of a concept are you?
no, of course not!

but what if you didn't 'come here' to become enlighted, awakened,
re-joined with god the universe and all that? what if you actually
are the very universe and you came here for other reasons? hahaha
and hohoho!

well, kids, that's basically it. you already are the big kahuna you
are trying to find. oh yeah.

loveya - michael read

 NDS  Jehovah's  Witnesses

Thanks, Mary Bianco 

A new website speaks of the movement from Jehovah's Witnessto Nonduality. From kingdom hall to krispy kreme.

The question now is, how to escape nonduality?

http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/ Jerry 

 NDS  Non-dual terminology(?)

Bruce Morgan 

It occurs to me that while
"nonduality" refers to a
simple-if-subtle fact,
"nondualism" is indeed a
philosophy and belief system
or perhaps a component or
tenet thereof. There, so to
speak, is the rub, since any
such system is by nature
problematic. There is not
and need not be any path up
the mountain -- there is no
mountain and we're all
exactly where we have to be.
Viscerally realizing that is
exactly that: realization,
which is intrinsically
nondual(ity). 

 NDS  nonduality and religion[cut from a longer dialogue] 

Jerry
The vision of the lists was to be a forum for people who had a
natural inclination toward the nondual way of looking at things.We didn't come together in the name of any one guru or schoolof thought. It was truly independent, seems to me. We weren'ttrying to make money or take advantage of innocent people oranything like that. 

Melody
I would be willing to bet that most all
'religions' started out with as pure and
self-less a goal. Few exist to make
money or take advantage of innocent people.
But like with all things conceptual and
material, there is always the seduction
of attachment and identification.

Sandeep says use a concept to dig
out other concepts, and then throw
that concept away.

The moment we're no longer willing
to throw away that concept ( and the
forums and the identities formed around
that concept), is the moment we are likely
to manifest all the negative characteristics
of those 'other' people and religions. 

 Stanley Sobottkahttp://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/new_page_16.htm

Chapter 12. Nonduality, religion, and belief

There is an enormous difference between the natures of theteachings of nonduality and those of religion. There is notheology in the purest forms of nonduality, whereas theologyis the basis of religion. By theology, I mean a belief systemwhich contains critical concepts that one is asked tobelieve as Truth but which cannot be verified within theindividual’s own experience. 

Same Direction

Doug truevision list, a poem from Robert Bly

A man and a woman sit near each other, and they do not
long
at this moment to be older, or younger, nor born
in any other nation, or time, or place.
They are content to be where they are, talking or not
talking.
Their breaths together feed someone whom we do not
know.
The man sees the way his fingers move;
he sees her hands close around a book she hands to him.
They obey a third body that they share in common.
They have made a promise to love that body.
Age may come, parting may come, death will come.
A man and a woman sit near each other;
as they breathe they feed someone we do not know,
someone we know of, whom we have never seen.