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Nonduality Salon

Highlights #4

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I used to have a hard time working. I felt much a victim to society,
being forced to do things i didn't want to just to survive. But those
days are gone. And they came to pass when i connected consciously to my
being. Then all these worldly matters became playthings. And so it has
been since. I can feel bored or exhausted from working, but that is ok.
Having realized my true self i no longer feel enemic to the world,
rather i find life more and more entertaining.

love, tanmayo


Peeling the onion called personality one remain with one's true nature,
that's true. For me, my path has had different phases, starting with
longing, searching, therapy, so on. Then the path turned into allowance,
acceptance, staying a witness to myself and my Self. Until the clarity
of nothingness made itself my base, my conscious foundation. Now my path
is a river.

love, tanmayo

For the Rosicrucians, the NT
is book on Kundalini Yoga. The bliss descending is depicted by the term
"anointed one". After the classical, "final" rising of Kundalini, all of
a sudden (literally "out of the blue sky") something happens and duality
is no more. After that, Kundalini "resides" in the crown-center and what
sometimes is called "the process of dissolving the mind" easily is
interpreted as "bliss raining down" or any equivalent poetical
description; it cannot be associated with energy in any way. Because
there is no rule what center will be perceived as the first one to
become active, the interpretation of someone starting at the
crown-center will be obvious as in the crown-center the bliss-aspect is


In one of my groups there are 2 children, 20 months and 18 months, born
to members of the group, and living in a group home ....

The first word that both of them spoke was .... 'DA' ...
We watched, and listened, and they repeated .... 'DA'
As they got older and started to crawl, touch things, gesture to things
both inside and outside the house,
Everything was 'DA'

I asked them 'who is DA?'

They pointed to the sun and said 'DA'
They pointed to the moon and said 'DA'
They hugged the cat and said 'DA'
They stroked a pot plant and said 'DA'
They placed a small hand over my heart and said 'DA'
They took their mother's hand and said 'DA'

I started to explain as gently as I could, the name by which I knew
these things ...
and was greeted by wide open eyes, a shaking of the head, a finger
pointing, and 'DA'

DA is the first word spoken by many a child, the outward verbal
expression of the
Name of the Essence that is common to all things ...

They started, as children do, to draw on the wall .... I asked them was
DA in the
wall ... a pause, eyes wide open .... a nod of the head.
I asked 'Does DA need to be drawn all over?' .... a shake of the head
.... there has
been no more drawing on the wall ...

Have we made 'DA' wrong for our children, limiting their knowing,
imposing our own
needs and beliefs ? ..........

Christopher Wynter
Hobart, Tasmania


My first introduction to 'neti-neti' was by a
really terrific psychotherapist years ago.

One day, after listening to me droll on and on
about how much I do for the family, and how
needy they were of my time and attention, my
therapist cut me off mid sentence, and asked,
"what if you weren't a dutiful daughter, supportive
sister, manager extraordinaire, and an employee
the company could never do without...."WHO"
would you be then?

I froze. For an excruciating couple of minutes
I was nothing to no one, and it scared the hell
out of me!! It was my first experience of

After watching me sweat for a couple of minutes,
he said, "okay...you can put your masks back on

And I did...faster than you could say, "Boo!"

I was never the same after that day. It's taken
years.....to strip away, like the descent of Innana,
the veils I wore .... which I wore like badges of

How funny now ....looking back on it all.



And though we cannot see it,
we know the wind Is...

How do we know?

By noticing that
which flows
along with it..

and what struggles
in resistance to it.

We cannot see the wind.

We can only notice
an objects'
interaction with it.

We can choose to walk
as One with it,

or we can see how long
we can stand against it.

The wind does not care
what choice we make.

She simply blows,
or does not....

~ Melody


A couple of years ago I was in a maximum crisis point
in my life and I didn't even know it. I am just now
starting to realize how really tight the whole situation was.
And that is only by hindsight.

My mother was dying slowly and laboriously. She had
kidney failure and believe me I had no idea what the
whole dialysis trip was. This is not something to wish
on anybody. My opinion now it is better to let someone
just die rather than go through dialysis. There are exceptions
of course if a transplant will work or if it is a temporary

I was running single handedly a small water bottling company.
The plant was two hours away and the whole work ethic
in the woods was nonexistent. The company was foreign
owned and I had an intermediary boss who was a consultant
only. The money was great and they were always trying to
give me more as I was trying to quit. Two prior owners
were suing each other for some sort of noncompliance and
trying to squeeze the money out of the rich owners now.
The rich owners bought the company as a teaching tool for
a son who really only wanted to do nothing and take drugs.
He was around also with wild ideas. So here I was in
the middle of all that and in depositions and so forth as
they tried every underhanded manipulative means of getting
something for nothing.

My husband choose this time to go through a mid life crisis.
I won't say anymore about this one except to say that we
now own a BMW motorcycle and a BMW sports car.

I had my dad with me because there was no way he could
live on his own.

The day my mom died I just quit the job. To hell with them.
I got a million phone calls after that and I still had depositions
to go to but I was free. Somehow at the core is this feeling
that I have to take care of everything. I can't say no. I know
that behind that has to be some massive egotism. Maybe the
real core fear is that I don't matter at all one way or the other.

Now what does this have to do with nonduality?


Marcia, I'm there, too, with you. How else could I recognize this? I
know this one down to my bones. Even to not seeing it until with
hindsight, because when you are in those back to the wall, gotta do it
situations,,you cannot afford to what? Think of yourself? Or worse, feel
sorry for yourself.. or major calamity-wise, stop doing. I had one of my
crisis points when my first husband left me and our 3 kids with no money
(which seemed unimaginable after 22 yrs, some midlife crisis he had,
huh?) and while I looked for a better job than substitute teaching, I
took on painting jobs..and applied to grad school with no idea how I
could pay for it, let alone do that AND work full-time, and I stubbornly
refused to sell the house until the divorce would go thru first, which
took a year, and well, you get the picture. All thru this time, I kept
up my volunteer work and also went to choir practice and church every
Sunday. Later that year, my son's best friend needed a place to stay
because his parents were divorcing and he somehow couldn't stay with
either one of them, so he moved in with us, too.

I ended up getting a social work job, which involved taking on the
problems of about 150 women whom I was supposedly going to get off
welfare by getting them into education and training. I did that job and
went to grad school weekends for 3 years learning counseling, so I could
be an even better helper. Well.. what sort of advice would YOU have
given me then??

Hint: This has everything to do with non-duality....



A tremendous amount of tolerance is required. People have to constantly
be reminded of the search to know who they are. That search does not
have to be aligned with religion and spirituality, though it may be. It
has to be the effort of civilization.



Forwarded to Nonduality Salon from HarshaSatsangh:
Happy Friday Satsanghers!

On occasion, a well-intentioned Satsangher will post seeking wisdom
regarding the nature of mystical/spiritual Realization. Often as not,
the poster will be treated to a perspective which claims 'there's
nothing to do!

You're already there. Just accept that you are Enlightened, that you are
'liberated' and you will become That. Becoming That, you will see that
you were There all the time."

Who does not wish to be told that absolute freedom, joy, bliss, etc.,
can be so easily attained? Perspectives making the above claims, while
sincere, are misguided and in fact, may accomplish more harm than good.

Recently, we enjoyed a brief flurry of exchanges regarding the question
of 'turya' or the fourth state of consciousness. It was intimated by
some posters that the question of a fourth state, or indeed, of any
'state' of consciousness, was essentially unimportant. All that one need
do is realize that one is already there! Just accept that you are
already there and you'll actually be there! There are no 'states' of
consciousness, some posters claim, just look around you and accept "the
fact" that you are not this and this and this, and you'll see your
"true" self.

Again, nothing could be more misguided and misinformed.

Enlightenment cannot be experienced by mere 'negation.' Why? Because
Enlightenment requires a complete transformation of consciousness. THE

What does this mean? Being 'Awake' is a substantively different
experience of consciousness. The experience of time and space are
completely transformed. The awakened person experiences, in the midst of
the flow of temporal events, utter and complete timelessness. This
'non-temporality' becomes part of the structure of experienced
consciousness. Experiencing 'no-duration' means that in the structure of
one's consciousness, there is the awareness that time does not move at
all. The experience of duration includes a quality of recognizing that
all the 'time' that one has every experienced has occurred in a single,
motionless instant. One is able to bring to mind any memory, any image
from one's past and recognize a quality of that experience that is
EXACTLY the same--and realize that temporal experience includes both
duration and non-duration.

This is not the content of ordinary consciousness. Non-awakened
consciousness experiences only the flow of time and not the absolute
awareness of non-duration.

The experience of spatiality also transforms with Awakening. The
non-awakened consciousness experiences all movement as motion from one
place to another. You get up to go to the bathroom and your awareness is
moving from one room to another. You leave your home and get into your
car to go to work and your awareness is of a linear journey from this
place to that place to another place. The awakened consciousness,
however, experiences spatiality very differently. Every place where the
awakened person stands is apprehended as being exactly the same location
where one has always been throughout all of one's spatial experience.
All locations, no matter how distant or foreign, are experienced as
precisely the same place. A 'familiarity' inheres in the experience of
spatiality. The nature of this 'familiarity' is the experience of never
moving--of being always in one familiar place that is absolutely the
same. Thus the awakened consciousness both comprehends the datum of
being in another location--as always before--and, additionally
recognizes a quality of spatiality that is 'non-spatial' or
non-different, if you will.

The restructuring of awakened consciousness includes further
characteristics. Because the enlightened consciousness perceives all
time--past and future-- as exactly the same as the present, that
consciousness behaves altogether differently from the person who
experiences the flow of time.

Persons who experience life in the context of a linear, time and
space-bound consciousness, form and define self-identity by forming
attachments to all the events that occur within this context and behave
by virtue of that experience. The awakened consciousness is not bound by
a strictly linear and narrative spatio-temporal reference for events
that occur. The awakened consciousness releases all attachments to past
events and ceases to identify with these experiences. The reason this
occurs is because the structure of ongoing awareness has transformed.
When this happens, attachments naturally fall away. The
'emotion/feeling' based mechanism for behaving is exchanged and a new
dynamicity for behaving arises. The nature of awakened behavior arises
from a complete union with the present moment.

Behavior changes from its former narrative-based performance to an
increasingly immediate and spontaneous 'Moment' based behavior.

An example: I am waiting tables. A customer criticizes me for being too
slow and delivering a cold meal. A common reaction is to feel defensive
or angry or resentful. The nonawakened personality will react to this
situation by virtue of the accumulated tensions from previous

He or she might internalize the tension, or lash out at the customer, or
even choose to return kindness for injury. But no matter the behavior,
the tension of experiences accumulates when the personality is under the
sole dominion of the narrative, cumulative form of consciousness. The
structural result of awakening consciousness is the experience of
nondifferentiated time and space. The effect of this transformation of
consciousness is the release of accumulated tensions. The awakened
personality no longer experiences or behaves as before awakening.
Rather, no matter the actual character of the awakened waiter's
response, that response will arise and disappear instantly. This means
that her actions in a given set of circumstances will not be conditioned
or determined by a personality that behaves as a result of accumulated
tensions or emotional attachments, prejudices and so forth. Neither will
the behavior arrive from an experience of consciousness determined by
existential concerns determined by attachments to the narrative flow of
time from the past and into the future.

None of these 'transformations' of consciousness signal more than
'recognizing consciousness for precisely what it is.' Nothing is added
to or subtracted from the nature of consciousness as such. However, the
event of awakening to 'what always already is' only occurs as one
transforms one's experience of consciousness. Thus, awakening or
enlightenment, must always be BOTH a transformative journey AND a
recognition that through transformation one recognizes that
consciousness is exactly as it always was. The necessary paradox is that
the latter cannot occur without the former.

The experience of 'turya', or the fourth state of consciousness is this
very transformation. Although turya is always present in all states of
consciousness, one can only transform consciousness through meditation
and sadhana until gradually the positive qualities of turya permanently
condition and illumine the experience of consciousness. This is a
STRUCTURAL transformation of consciousness because the event of
conditioning and illuminence, the restructuring of consciousness to
recognize what was not previously recognized, automatically retools and
reorients the context of BEHAVIOR.

One can indeed experience glimpses of the absolute, immutable
'transcendent' aspect of consciousness. However, these glimpses can
never be sufficient in and of themselves to accomplish enlightenment.
More often than not, the hopeful recipient of such an experience, builds
a wall of attachment around the experience and consequently, prohibits
the possibility for real spiritual growth. This amounts to little more
than 'enlightenment by wishful thinking.'

Persons who suggest that no practices or transformation need occur to
'become enlightened or self-realized' are peddling little more than
snake-oil. All the major mystical/spiritual traditions present spiritual
attainment as a journey of transformation leading toward a new,
structurally reintegrated personality. Such traditions include all the
branches of Buddhism, the Sufi orders, Christian mysticism and most
Hindu traditions.

It is virtually impossible to name a single great Teacher, Sage or
Saint, who did not journey toward enlightenment and experience as a
result, a completely new structure of Experience. Teachers who advocate
no practice or sadhana at all in order to experience Awakening are in
the extreme minority.

Work and discipline are always a hard sell. Aspirants do not wish to
hear the sacrifices and the surrendering that must occur on the path of
Self-Realization. Westerners in particular, are influenced by Christian
traditions based on the simple acceptance of Jesus as the Savior for
salvation. Americans often come to eastern spirituality unaware of the
quality of commitment and effort involved in spiritual transformation
and enlightenment.

The reward for effort and transformation is very great. In time, work
becomes pleasure, and pleasure becomes Self-Realization. Gautama Buddha,
Abhinavagupta, Ramana Maharshi and the Dalai Lama--among many
others--have lit the torch for us to follow. Let us walk in their
footsteps--as our own circumstances allow and engender--and work
together toward the only peace this planet can effectively experience:
the transformation of behavior and the performance of enlightenment.

Madhya Nandi


While I am not inclined to
refute or refine this articulate
and historically well supported
presentation in detail, I agree
with a great deal of it and
disagree with a number of the
Madhya's key assumptions. I'm
sure what she writes reflects
her own experience accurately,
but it is a great (albeit very
common) error to generalize ones
personal experience into
generalities encompassing human
spiritual experience in its
entirety, regardless of how much
support one can glean from the
writings of Famous Dead Guys[tm].

That said, one of my favorite
Famous Dead Guys[tm] said the
following on his breaking free of
an orthodoxy, imposed upon him by
well intentioned others, seventy
years ago in Holland:

"I maintain that truth is a
pathless land, and you cannot
approach it by any path whatsoever,
by any religion, by any sect."

I would add that the relationship of
so-called spiritual practices to the
great truth that is variously called
"enlightenment," "realization,"
"God," etc. is emphatically not
causal -- nothing one can do can
summon this occurence and any and
all yogas and meditation regimes
are strictly non-deterministic with
respect to the profound perceptual
shift to which Madhya points.

This does not mean that one should
abandon formal practice or that it
has no value -- it just means that
this best any practice can do is to
facilitate conditions that may or
may not be somewhat conducive to an
event that is strictly a matter of
grace. Practice or not as is the
propensity of your particular
incarnation, but do so without
expectation of any particular
outcome. As always, the dynamic
that nurtures awareness is the
spontaneous absence of intent, the
moment of surrender -- what precedes
that moment temporally, the course
of ones life, is the real definition
of "path," all else is mere detail.

Bruce Morgen
Yes, you may participate in our 'research group'. Your qualifications
are excellent.

You may download the experimental software here:


Password is your 'username'.

Please read the provisional license agreement. Installation instructions
are included.

We hope that you enjoy our illusion. Please note that 'we' are not
responsible for any side-effects, such as hyper-recursive loopbacks,
spontaneous backfiring or implosions of the brainpan, etc, and cannot be
held 'financially accountable' for losses of property, income, or

We are eager to be of service; please write in to this forum with any
progress reports. We may be able to make substantial improvments to this
illusion, and your contributions are highly valued, "David Hodges".

==Gene Poole==

Root Operative, HyperUniverse-1

Dear Root Operative ("Gene Poole"),
I downloaded the beta illusion without any problem and installed it on
my system. Before I let it run I installed the Jerry "Krazy" Katz
wake-up task in a cron job set to go off after three days of beta
testing just in case I was unable to awake myself, and it was a good
thing I did, because I could have gotten really lost in there!

I have a number of items of feedback and suggestions, I hope you can
bear with me.

First of all, for what is billed to be an illusion, the initial effect
of entrance is punishing and painful. You ought to consider moderating
the passage. I refer in particular to the way that my (our) energies
were modulated into lower frequencies, at such an alarming rate of speed
that I temporarily blacked out. When I came to I found my being to be so
heavy I could barely move. In particular there was a crushing
emotional/propioceptive feeling that I have since come to call
"separation." Even though I now understand that this feeling was
generated by your illusion, it nearly made me want to self-terminate.
The illusion of "separation" made me believe that I had "boundaries" at
the borders of the skin of the corporal mass endowed upon me by the
illusion (I am NOT making this up!), and that "I" consisted of only the
thoughts that were passing through awareness and the sensations that
were passing through the bodily bio-energetic systems! What an
extraordinary delusion! While I commend you for the great skill with
which you created that illusion, I doubt if you could have forseen the
extreme suffering and distress it causes when one is not prepared for

As I gradually adjusted to this awful state, I became aware that I was
sharing the same physical/temporal coordinates with another beta tester.
Somehow I realized that, while I had been gendered "male" for the
purposes of the test, the other tester had been gendered "female".
Apparently this gendered "female" had been testing longer than I for she
did not seem to be at all aware that we were testers and seemed to be
genuinely believing that what we were doing was all that there was to

I realize her motivation in that encounter with me was to use me to
overcome her own crushing sense of separation. She had apparently
concocted for herself the story that if she engaged in certain "mating"
behaviors of a physically gross and emotionally dull manner that she
would escape from that sense of separation and return to "oneness". I
repeat again, I am NOT making this up! All my senses and awarenesses
(which were pitifully few and under-energized) were engaged in parrying
her artful maneuvers designed apparently to get ME to initiate the
mating behaviors which SHE desired.

Fortunately she seemed bound by some code or construct which prevented
her from initiating the desired behavior and thus I escaped. If that
code was something you put into the illusion I thank you for it.

Later I came to realize that all beta testers of various genders shared
this belief that engaging in mating behavior would overcome the sense of

I also learned that the beta testers had come up with a term to
encompass the sense of separation and isolation that the illusion
creates, and that term is "the self." By making the term a noun they
invertently made that sense into a thing which they imagine is located
inside their corporal mass! And they think it is a good thing!

The illusion which you included in my beta test version included placing
me in a situation in which I had to search for what is called in the
illusion a "job". I was to search for this with intensity and
persistence in order to earn credits of some kind which were to offset
debits incurred by the very fact of my occupying a dwelling and
consuming nutritive substances. This of course is laughable and probably
the weakest part of the whole illusion, this idea of needing to "earn"
credits and incurring debits. No one in their right mind will believe
this system, it is too crude and it punishes those with less persistence
or less ingenuity in the earning of credits. There is much more to this
system of earning credits to pay off debits but I am in a hurry to move
on in my review.

I discovered that other beta testers who had been at it longer than I
had, like the gendered female I initially encountered, completely
forgotten the purpose of the illusion, and had come with many
conclusions as to "why"
they existed. Some of these purposes they had come up with were:

-- They exist in order to reproduce more of themselves.

--Or, they exist in order to perform the mating ritual WITHOUT

--They exist in order to amass a large number of unneccessary credits.

--They exist in order to "conquer" other players and take away their
"credits" or even to drive them off their spatio-temporaral coordinates.
There have been several beta testers who came to believe that their
purpose was to gain "control" over as large an area of the spatial grid
as they could. Now, "control" is an odd concept that you will have to
try to understand, because it actually refers mostly to the transfer of
credits and the imposition of completely unnecessary debits (see the
reports of Beta Tester Milosevic for more details).

--Some think they exist in order to make what they call "art". In other
words, they define the rules of new illusions (like your own except on a
very limited scale) and then exercise themselves creating examples of
illusions that follow those rules that they just made up. And then
others think of themselves as "critics" whose only function is to
comment on how closely the "artists" have followed their own rules!

--Some others think they exist in order to "grow spiritually". This is
in many ways the most curious bunch because they have come closest to
the nature of the illusion. However, they are easily sidetracked into
phenomena that they call "kundalini", "psychic phenomena", "samadhi",
"mailing lists" and the like, which leads me to believe that you
introduced these into the illusion in order to throw off those who got
too close.

I realize that you have inserted various clues into the illusion to
remind us to wake-up but in general those have been pretty ineffective.
There was one such "clue-bearer" named Jesus of Nazareth who nearly blew
the whole thing by blabbing the secret in public as loudly and clearly
as he could. I noticed that you quickly terminated his participation and
removed him from the illusion in a most unbelievable way. The whole beta
test might have failed right then with mass awakenings by all the
testers except for the quick repair work you did by sending Saul of
Tarsus to explain things.

One thing that I beg you to do is to modulate the illusion of
separation. It really renders the illusion impossibly difficult to
endure and takes all the fun out of it. I have taken the liberty of
designing a modification to the corporal entity that you provided for
the illusion. This modification is to be installed near the nexus of the
upper energy channels. I call it a "High Energy Alteration/Reduction
Thottle" ( or HEART for short). It's function will be to introduce
moderated quantities of a finer-frequency energy (Light Omni-Valenced
Energy, or LOVE) that will ameliorate the worst effects of the
separation effect without entirely giving away the game.

I haven't decided whether or not to resume participation in the
illusion; I may wait for the next release of the beta test or I might
even wait until there have been several releases of the production
version (you know what they say about version 1.0 of anything!)

Your faithful volunteer,
"David Hodges"

Interestingly, something that I listened to today on a tape of Saniel
Bonder ("What Is this About?") touches upon what Harsha just wrote about
in a post today. Here's a short transcript of the portion of Saniel's
tape that intrigued me:

"We [the Adepts in Saniel's group]are *not* saying, relax, you're
already enlightened. We completely appreciate the difference between
what it feels like to be unaware, or not really clear about it, and to
be really clear about it. It's a big difference, and everyone deserves
to know that difference really well. What we're basically saying is that
you can heal this core wound. We have a process that really works, body
by body.

We've gotten really good at working it out so that individuals over the
course of a few months, a few years, but not a long time ... it's a
finite process . . . we've gotten real good if someones finds they
really have to do this process (because if you have options you'll take
them!) ... if someone gravitates to it so that they keep coming around
here, they're going to awaken. They're going to experience this healing,
what it means to live the paradox of being simultaneously totally
infinite and very finite."

I understand the gist of what Saniel is getting at. That there is a
difference to the one who is identified with the ego-body-mind, versus
the one who no longer lives with that limited identification. That what
the Buddha said, "Truly, I received nothing from total enlightenment,"
has meaning and significance. But I have a problem with the rest of what
Saniel is saying.

I've listened to the whole tape, and there is definitely this sense,
that you can taste from the paragraph quoted, that he and his fellow
adepts are trying to "sell" something. There is this promise, reiterated
several times, that if you come around to their meetings, show up at
their satsang or retreats (the Waking Down Weekends, $375), that you
*will* awaken. He makes a big point about how it can happen in a matter
of months. I guess that's supposed to impress people with its brevity.
To me, it's either way too long, or infinitely short, or irrelevant

When the woman at the start of the tape asked the question, "What is
this about?" Saniel hemmed and hawed for a while, and after twenty
minutes of beating around the bush still hadn't answered the question to
what would be my satisfaction. After it ended I felt like asking him,
"So, what *is* this about?"

The organization is a little confusing. Saniel rejects the concept of
"guru," so his organization has a handful of "Adepts" who are certified
as awakened, who share the duties of teaching newcomers. Evidently
Saniel shares the stage with one or more of these Adepts and they take
turns answering audience questions. But the focus is always on the idea
that there is "something happening here" -- in his group -- and that if
you come around and associate with them you're guaranteed to get some
kind of "transmission" from them.

It's all very body-mind centered. The focus is on the benefit that
"you're" supposed to get from hanging around with these guys. I do not
sense any real understanding in Saniel at all.



Then there's this true story: It was an interracial family and one kid
asked his mother what color God is. She said God is the color of water.


This man walking a dog is mySelf.
Those people playing frisbee are mySelf
That car is mySelf
The road is mySelf

Stoplight, closed eyes:
All these feelings are mySelf
This contraction is mySelf
This laughingness is mySelf

Open eyes:
That scowling person is mySelf
This memory that floats in my mind is mySelf

Pretty soon, as with the question Who Am I? the words fall away
and there is only This everywhere.


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