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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #279

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So many impossible conditions before
you can know what you are?
So many sanscrit terms that make seem
realization exotic and far off?
So many concepts of samadhi this and
samadhi that?
So many judgements on other people and
how they try to express
their discovery of the inexpressible?
So much mental activity about the
uselessness of mental activity?
So many ideas of how you must be
perfect before knowing perfection?


STOP!

This empty awareness between your thoughts is you ..... now ......

Namaste means, you are eternal stillness as am I.

Xan

________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Join Harshasatsangh:

The Cosmos is our Website! :--).

You are invited to join HarshaSatsangh.
We are not perfect. Just the next best thing to it!
If you are looking for fellowship
in the context of mutual respect, amity, humor (lots of that) and goodwill,
HarshaSatsangh may be right for you.
Come to where the Siddhas roam and Jnanis play.
We hand out Enlightenment by the bundle.

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/HarshaSatsangh
________________________________________________________________________________\
______



Melody, introducing a new list:

"HeartWalk" is a space made ready for the Heart....
a space supported in love....where one can begin
to look inward at one's own abyss....into one's
own fears....into one's deepest nature. A place
where once can begin dropping the armor of
self preservation....the armor that inhibits the freedom
to live a life of love.

As I have heard it described, this list is not a place
of psychotherapy, bit it IS a place of deep listening.
It is not a place for being attacked, but it is a place
where ego and old limiting belief systems may be
challenged. It is not a place for blaming 'others',
but IS a place for taking responsibility.

And so this clear pool of ours is moderated. It is
moderated in the sense that there will be lifeguards
present - not to 'save' someone from drowning, but
to remove from the water those swimmers whose
movements are so intrusive as to impede the movements
of others.

Whether you come with a heart that knows freedom, or
come with a heart that yearns to know love, we invite you
to share this space with us.

To subscribe, go to:
http://www.onelist.com/group/HeartWalk

or send a blank email to:
HeartWalk-subscribe@onelist.com
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Dave Manchine and Greg Goode:

Greg wrote:
So -- sensory modalities, biology, physics, thoughts, information,
external objects, all that stuff. We do science with it. But how can
any of it be any more or less real than any of the rest?

Manchine wrote:

It's all real, although within a limited perception, and I can't stress the
vital
importance of that simple statement. If you see that the physical is false, you
are
perhaps loosing the most important clue as to what it is there for, as to why
we are.
So what is spiritual quest? The search of tranquility by ignoring? Don't think
so.

Greg:

You make a good point - there are perceptions that take all this stuff as
real. And it can be the ultimate cop-out, putting one's head in the sand,
to blithely say none of it's real. Often this is accompanied by
self-indulgent or hurtful behavior. I'm sorry if I gave you this kind of
impression, I don't want to. This was a kind of metaphysical topic with
Roger, not everyday talk. I was using the "real/unreal" distinction the
way they do in advaita vedanta - real is said to be permanent and
independent; unreal is said to be transitory and dependent on something
else. The purpose of our being here? How's this -- to find the Self,
which is Love, and then to celebrate and love each other and all things as
instances of that Self.

"The physical as false?" Funny you should mention that. I'll tell you a
story about something that happened to me. In my case, the beliefs and
experiences related to the physical realm fell away about 18 years ago,
long before I knew anything about spiritual or mystical life. In the early
80's, I took a graduate seminar in George Berkeley. He's the guy who
argued persuasively against the external, independent existence of physical
objects. The popular tagline about Berkeley is this -- he's the guy who
said that if a tree in the forest falls and there's no one to hear it, it
doesn't make a sound. Our professor was a world-class Berkeley scholar and
not a fair grader -- to get a good grade in the seminar, we had to write
papers only in favor of Berkeley!! And his arguments were not what I'd
call intuitive (though he is one of the most engaging philosophical
stylists in the English language).

So we read and read and read. Long story short, there was a
transformational point where physical objects lost once and for all their
sense of externality and reality and heaviness and solidity. Including my
own body. In 18 years or so, objects have never regained these qualities
for me. Objects seemed and felt like they were made fully and completely
of idea-stuff, appearances to mind, and not separate from me. (Back then I
thought I *was* the mind.) I would ride a bike or learn to rollerblade in
the city, lift weights, do bodybuilding. Yes I would avoid cars and
trucks, and set the barbells down carefully. But there was no real
separation between my body and other objects. Physical actions now had the
feeling of lightness and clarity and insubstantiality of ideas. This
includes physical pain, illness, injury, all of which stopped feeling like
they were happening to me or my body, but rather just arising as an
interplay of idea-stuff.

Now non-dualism has some *intellectual* teachings on this, but no way for
it to work into experience unless a large enough "Shift Happens." A few
years ago I was delighted and intrigued to encounter a Kashmir Shaivist
form of yoga which cultivats the same kind of experience of the world....

With love,

--Greg
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

John Metzger sent:


The true men of old
Knew no lust for life,
No dread of death.
Their entrance was without gladness,

Their exit, yonder,
Without resistance.
Easy come, easy go.
They did not forget where from,

Nor ask where to,
Nor drive grimly forward

Fighting their way through life.
They took life as it came, gladly ;

Took death as it came, without care ;

And went away, yonder,
Yonder!

They had no mind to fight Tao.
They did not try, by their own contriving,

To help Tao along.
These are the ones we call true men.


Minds free, thoughts gone
Brows clear, faces serene.
Were they cool? Only cool as autumn.
Were they hot? No hotter than spring.

All that came out of them
Came quiet, like the four seasons.


The Way of Chuang Tzu translated by Thomas Merton

I like this because here in Kentucky us hillbillies use the term yonder quite
a bit, e.g.,"I'm goin' over yonder to see Sally Jo". John
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

r clarke introduces herself (or himself) with a poem:


Not body
Not senses,
Not prajna,
Not mind,
Not personality,
Not ego,
But Self, only Self.

No separation, nothing to gain or lose,
Only Self, full and complete.

Who am I?
Who is asking?
Realize this and the many cease.
Only the One remains.
That One is Self,
The Self that you are right now.

Realize this Knowledge.
Let it fill you
Until
The One is all that is.
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Another big post from Gene with Kristi and Marcia, ascending spiral, shocks and
bounces:


Hi Kristi... you wrote:


> Dear Gene:
>
> Well said. Thank you. It is perfectly descriptive of the bouncing back and
> forth I see myself go through. Being aware of the process doesn't always
> make it easier while you're in it.....but I think it does insure that each
> session with de-compression effectively sculpts away some material.
> Love, Kristi

Gene: Thank you, Kristie. I definitely hear you. I agree, awareness
of this process does not always make it easier. Consider this:

Almost any person can enroll in a conditioning program, with the goal
of becoming a star athlete, but even with extensive conditioning, the
performance of the athletic event is always a challenge; knowing
this, a competent athlete is 'always in training'. The star athlete
knows that there is never an end to the challenge, and so stays in
condition by constant training.

Athletic conditioning sculpts muscle onto the body, just as our
internal processes of self-inquiry sculpt unnecessary bulk out of
self, as you point out above. In both cases, the motto can be: "It
never ends". There is no 'stopping point', no point at which athletic
training or self-inquiry 'succeeds'. It is the point of the doing of
the work, which is the enabling factor. The work itself, enables
better and better work to be done.

Please see my comments to Marcia (below), for a discussion of the
'bouncing back and forth' which you mention above.

---

>Hi Gene,

>Good post. I have a few comments.

Gene: Hi Marcia...

Thanks. I reply to your comments:


> Gene: I have discovered that the information which remains with us,
> as the result of wounding (most especially when we are children) is
> indeed in the forms that Xan and Marcia point out; sounds, words,
> images, and body sensations. However (and this is a big however!),
> this residual information of wound, is stored in a _compressed
> format_.

>Marcia:

>Wouldn't you say that everyone is "wounded". I mean as children we
are born as pure essence but pure essence is just too vulnerable and
also just not capable of living in the world. I mean some skills are needed
and so forth and so some limiting and structuring has to take place.

Gene: Yes, well spoken. Gaining skills, structure, and becoming
tolerant of limiting are needed, and are properly gained in the
'first round' of life. After coming full-circle, a person is then
able to live in the world as 'pure essence'. If we are open and
self-actuating, coming 'full-circle' allows us to jump up to the
next-highest circle; if this is repeated, our movement describes a
_spiral_, with each successive circle smaller than that last. In this
process, a 'lifetime' of learning is accomplished in less time than
each previous cycle.

This could be compared to 'riding on the tonal harmonic', starting
from the lowest (frequency) note, up the scale, to begin again on the
same note, but at a higher frequency, from 'Doh' to 'Doh'.

(Note about above: Some have compared/described this process as
'dying while living' or a 'being reborn without dying'; it is akin to
the concept of reincarnation/metempsychosis, but it takes place
during one physical lifetime.)

>M: So even in the best of environments some files just have to be zipped
just like in a computer to save space etc. So the word wounding has
a negative connotation and perhaps should but if we had real teachers
then there would still be a need for ___________ which would
be to help us organize and use our minds.

Gene: Yes, agreed. Personally, I advocate unending intellectual
self-discipline based in unending self-observation. Rather than being
a fetish or predeliction, this 'way' literally empowers me. See more
below.

> Non-wound information is stored in uncompressed format; we have the
> ability to easily access and endlessly ruminate this non-compressed
> information. Most of what is shared here, is in non-compressed format.

>Marcia:

>In some ways this "stuff" is more destructive than wounding material
as it just floats around totally distracting and causing us to just go
from one association to the next. There needs to be taught a method
of cleaning this stuff up or deleting it or ranking it as to it's value.

Gene: Absolutely! Unfortunately, our cultural fetish of 'casualness'
leads people astray. A 'master' is seen as someone who can proceed
casually, and brilliantly succeed. This is a false interpretation of
mastery. Mastery implies and requires constant vigilance and _work_;
even then, mastery does not guarantee any particular success. Mastery
does, however, make one expert in _working_; each cycle of work leads
to the next cycle being accomplished with more grace. Up the scale we
go!

> * IDENTITY THREATENED BY INFORMATION
>
> Psyche reacts by stuffing (archiving) information which threatens identity.
>
> The chief characteristic of these stuffed archives of wound-data, is
> that *although* they are available for our access, they 'play back'
> at such a tremendous speed, that they are literally incomprehensible
> to the conscious mind. As they play back in us (usually experienced
> as an undesired event in itself), the speed of the playback induces a
> physical vertigo; this is often experienced as a 'veritable blow' to
> oneself.

>Marcia:

>This "blow" could be a wake-up call. The taste of this shock could
cause one to make an internal "stop". As one's internal mechanism
is all primed to play the "victim" for instance one could say...."Whoa,
hold the horses," before plunging head long into some form of the
blame game.

Gene: Yes! Each 'blow' is indeed a potential boost... it is like
'free energy' for us to ride on, if we can but take it that way. Each
blow/shock can enable us to actuate our well-practiced vigilance and
work; in fact, each shock is potentially a doorway into a much
friendlier 'dimension'. I feel that it is important to grasp this
concept of 'shock' being taken as a 'free energy boost'. Rather than
detuning oneself to reduce sensitivity to shock, one can tune oneself
to increase sensitivity to shock, for the purpose of riding the
sequence of shocks, much as a skilled surfer can ride a 'killer'
wave. Each 'wipeout' is in fact, another shock. The opportunities
for self-directed (consciously navigated) movement never end!

Kristie mentions 'bouncing back and forth'; I equate this to the
effect of being the 'ping-pong ball' that is being swatted between
two cosmically-large 'paddles'... wow, a free ride! The pattern of
'shock-shock-shock-shock-shock-shock' (sounds like ping-pong, eh?) is
our escalator, if we choose to use it that way. The 'trick' to making
this experience profitable, is to jump up a level after each shock,
so that instead of an experience of endless repetition of the 'same
old thing', it becomes instead, a launching into a new dimension of
more effective 'doing', and a refinement of the technique of
'working'. Onward and upward, so to speak...

>M: How many times do I have to do and say and believe the same
old story? Have I been here and done this before?

Gene: Let us compress that file: Filename {poor_me.ego}.

> * "FLASHBACKS" PLAGUE USERS OF DISINHIBITING DRUGS
>
> Exposure to this instant/incomprehensible information _again_
> threatens identity; shockingly instantaneous feelings of
> _depersonalization_ occur, along with a cascade of emotions and the
> concurrent physiological flooding of the brain with the neurohormonal
> byproducts of psychological association.
>
> During high-speed playback, compressed data-files deposit or inject
> certain _subliminal_ cues; these cues prompt emotional reaction of
> _desire_ and _aversion_. Although the specifics of the information of
> wound are still unseen, the consequence of triggering the instant yet
> incomprehensible playback of this compressed data, may be experienced
> as _violence_.

>Marcia:

>This is why being able to stay aware in my body is vital. I can feel
the neurological changes and know that feeling inside out of having
my buttons pushed and know that an old tape is being played again
and again and again. It is stored in the body, laid down in the
neurological systems.

Gene: Yes. We are 'given' integrated systems 'purposefully', and
maintaining integration is very important. That is why I caution
against the idealistic delusion that one part of our 'system' is more
important than any other part. If we cut it, we can't cut it.

Yes, the 'old tapes' are always on-tap. It is useful to remember that
below these personally acquired 'tapes', is a vast library of
impersonal tapes. This low-level 'tape library' is the
reference-source for our biological survival, and also holds the
templates for our possible expansion during this lifetime. There is
nothing new 'under the sun', and the 'inner guru' is the one who
plays all of those tapes at the appropriate moment. This means that
everyone 'has it all'; it is 'attitude' which determines the
difference between a closed circle and a spiral...

> The skilled psychotherapist can actuate the 'algorithm of
> decompression', to allow the real-time playback of the information of
> wound. A human system which is capable of compressing and archiving
> information, is also capable of uncompressing that information.
> Uncompressed, the information of wound is available for real-time
> rumination.
>
> * ORIGINAL WOUND-INFORMATION "IN-FORMS" WAY OF BEING
>
> Yet, it remains unaccessible to the conscious mind. Searching the
> memory for significant points of attachment may trigger high-speed
> playback; the vertigo, the 'blow' to oneself, and the concurrent
> feelings of aversion and desire, serve as a punishing conditioning to
> keep us OUT of our own information-archives.

>Marcia:

>With developed attention and a desire to know the truth of how
things are as distinct from how we wish they might be it is
possible to bear the suffering of knowing the truth. But there
has to be more than just a desire to see how things are cause
that can end up as a self-improvement kind of thing. It is more
than just about "me" and that is the ultimate "blow". That all
the "wounding" is nothing anyway.

Gene: Agreed. Please consider: As you define the 'ultimate blow' as
being the realization that it is 'more than just about me', so I
define the ultimate blow as being the realization that 'It is just
about me'. These can be the two, cosmically large 'paddles' which
provide the ultimate in free ride (once we have worked for and gotten
our 'ticket to ride', that is!). Here is how I see it:

Big_shock: 'It is more than just about me" (other) and (not-me)

Big_shock: "It is just about me" (self) (me) and (Self)

Becomes sequence: Self/other/self/other/self/other/self/other...
(speeding up now) ... self-other-self-other-self-other... (transforms
to) self other-self... [leading to realization and actuality of]
self-as-other (and) other-as-self (to) 'The I that is We'.... Self.

All who can speak 'I', I Am.

> * COMPRESSED 'ISSUES' GOBBLE LIBIDO, DIMINISH IMMUNITY

> * WHAT IS REPRESSED, IS PROJECTED

> * ALGORITHM OF NONDUALITY, SELF-INQUIRY, DESIGNED TO MAKE ALL DATA
>ACCESSIBLE

> 'Attachment to outcome' is what underlies every strategy; to let go
> of attachment to outcome, allows the falling away of strategizing as
> a way of Being. Releasing strategy sets us up to free-fall into Self,
> with no 'escape route' or 'back door' retained 'just in case'. This
> _radical_ release of attachment is without penalty, yet, it is the
> most difficult of all acts to perform. To perform this act, requires
> practice of abiding, carried out as a 'walking meditation' 24 hours
> per day, 7 days per week. It is when we finally realize that our
> reality is our own, that we are able to own our reality; it is at
> this point, that resentment, blame, and revenge lose their powerful
> grip on our selves.

>Marcia:

>I agree but this process in itself will release a tremendous amount of
energy and unless you have something to do with it you will end up
in worse straights than before. This is where right use comes in.

Gene: Yes. The dilemma of the unexpected or undisciplined experiencer
of 'Kundalini' is a perfect example. Hypomania can result; the
inexperienced/unitiated tend to lose identity and then panic when all
of what was is, is suddenly unknown. Yes, I agree; right use is to be
applied, all along the way. Can you say something about this?

Thanks, Marcia...

==Gene Poole==


* YOU ARE THE ONLY REALITY; YOU CREATE THE APPARENT UNIVERSE

* IDENTITY IS ONLY A VERSION OF SELF

* ABIDING, EQUANIMITY KEY FEATURES OF MATURITY, SUCCESS

* EQUANIMITY EQUALS EQUAL ANIMITY (MOVEMENT) IN ALL SITUATIONS
---
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Michael Read calling:


Here I sit in the wastelands of Portland feeling like a lone little
non-dualist. Thinking about going to the Living Enrichment Center 11
am services. Thinking about not going to the services.

They talk about god there. The basic premise is that all 6 billion
people on the planet are just manifestations of god. The vibration
however, is separate. God is other, still, somehow. I sense this
basic feeling of separateness in the good people worshipping there.
As most of them come from the various christian sects - this makes
sense.

As for me - HAHAHAH and HOHOHO! I no longer believe in god. Jesus
is/was not a saviour/messiah and buddha is/was not a lord. There is
no thing that is divine or holy. There is no thing that is evil or
corrupt. All is one. ALL IS BEAUTY.

I am starting to realize that what we call god is merely a
manifestation of mind. Samhadi is an emotional state brought on by
meditation, happenstance, drugs, fasting or luck :-)- nothing more.
Oh yes I experience the bliss. Somehow it does not seem like an end,
more it seems like a means to something else.

Me at the age of 15 staying up all night asking the universe (called
it god then) why, Why, WHY! Why does anything exist at all? The
answer was music and bliss flowing through me! :-) Driving along and
hearing a voice telling me to 'be out of your body now' and exiting
out of the top of my head, growing to about 50 feet tall. Realizing
that I was not behind the wheel Reaching down to guide the car around
the corner like it was a toy. Hearing the voice say, 'not bad, ok you
can go back into your body now.'

Me as a youngster of 20 something. Having dreams and visions -
questing after the answer. Going to India to see the guru maharaji -
self proclaimed lord of the universe - now just another 'divine' con
artist.

Ah India! Powers manifesting in me. Miracles abounding. More on this
another time! HAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

Me as a 50 something. Last year - mother dying - dead in April.
Joining a chi kung study group with my best friend in May/June.
Leaving that mini-cult in December! [-) Losing my friendship. Gaining
my senses back.

Seeking to know the ANSWER like my hair was on fire! Awakening!
:-)Hearing voices and seeing visions. Knowing oneness, seeing
duality!

Awakening! Like a chick out of its shell. Like a tadpole dreaming.
Like a caterpillar eating. What is next?

So. Does anybody know of any non-dualist realizer satsangers here in
the greater Portland, OR area? I sure could use some company! :-)

HAHAHAHAH and HOHOHOHO!

Peace - Michael
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Dan near and far:


Farther than the edge of the universe,
closer than this breath

To know, unknow.
To be, be not.
To see, open to darkness

One inch of time
leaves room for a million years
of "progress".

My end result is my beginning,
where will destiny "stick"?

There is no resolution here.
There is no meaning here.
Resolve not to resolve;
Mean not to be meaningful.

Untangle by having no process.
Build the universe by
having no structure.
Have your essence by
releasing your foundation.

Love,
Dan
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Freeheart:


4 days ago,
'III' past,
two worlds,
one line.

Fear.
Is a word.
Love
Is an Action.

Choice is no different
to me.
Than to You.

I takes everything
we are, each
Melody in every
Skye, only Love,
in My Heart.

Each day,
Each occurrence,
Any nuance,
same, connected.

Freedom:
Is not where we
look. freeheart
is Blind.

I am as human
as the innocent
babe. I suggest
we all are.

How can I help?
Is not That
which is in front of us?

Polite Words,
still not my Heart.
The Heart wants more,
and so shall receive.

Locked in each of
us, Fear.
Each of us to
Unlock.
Kali calls Time.

Even Now,
I see Her Work.
Can you see Yours?


****


Part IV:


Theirs is a Grace.
She awaits us.

Patient, like the
Mother,

Humble, as the
swift mourning Dove.

Each in turn,
One by One.

It is afternoon,
I have read the morning's
posts, Melody, skye, dave.
A letter from poet Gen.

I sit in underwear and
my unpaid for NDS gray
tee-shirt,
Caught Between:
half typing
these word's,
half living
them.

My most Glorious Wife,
now in the bedroom, and
my Youngest Son, John Lucas,
the two of them cooing,
in Tiger Tones like wild
monkeys.

The light in my Heart,
at this moment, is Greatest,
connected, in Family, with
you all.

I am simply attempting
to speak about my life.
No witty metaphors,
No stain upon the
Word.

I am a carpenter,
twice married,
many children
around that I
Love.

I do dream of
Being God.

My Heart explodes
at That.

And if It was for
me, as I have said here...

I would not leave
my family.

I would not leave
my Heart.

The 'call' Roars,
Such Thunderous Falls
Niagara, walking
underneath.

One foot on a wet
wooden gangplank,
a thin railing
resisting sure Death.

Do not understand Him,
Run when you see His face!
> If you see him walking, there's
> only one thing to do -
> Immediately walk on -- whenever
> he's spotted, the road is clear.
What do these words mean,
to us?

Tiger Roars!

Did you hear It?

Who even cares?

In all this verbiage,
present, i only wish
to share my real story.
Who could do any more,
than to be Present,
amongst such Ones?

I would bore my wise friends,
by going on about
how difficult it is
to write presently.

Yet fully taken by this Love,
how could I Not?




Asking permission in
this particular Venue,
is redundant.
We are Mostly All Here.
Lablelessly Here.:-)

The Teacher is always
present.

The Fountain constantly
re-orders itself.

The Youth hold the Promise,
of their Elders.

We are.



*Enough for now, love,
freeheart/ eric/ ...tom smith,
makes no difference!


beautiful sunday,
here in the midwest :-)
________________________________________________________________________________\
______

Something from Sarlo:

My master Osho answered a question of mine in which, among other things, he
addressed an impediment to awakening both specific (mine) and universal
(most everybody else's).

My question is rendered in caps:
WHY ARE METHODS NEEDED WHEN RELEASEMENT CAN HAPPEN INSTANTLY, HERENOW? I AM
SO TIRED OF TRIPS. HOW MANY MORE MUST I TRY ONLY TO FIND? THEY DON'T WORK
EITHER? I KNOW THE PROBLEM IS IN ME AND I KNOW THERE IS NO PROBLEM. SO NOW
WHAT?

Celebrate now. Sing, dance, love, be.
You say: WHY ARE METHODS NEEDED WHEN RELEASEMENT CAN HAPPEN INSTANTLY,
HERENOW?
Because you cannot trust me, that's why. You cannot trust me. I go on
declaring that you are Buddhas, already enlightened, but you are sceptical
about it. You can believe -- that too very grudgingly -- that a Gautam
Buddha may have become enlightened, maybe, perhaps. A Jesus became
enlightened, maybe. You can grudgingly concede that much, but to concede
that you are enlightened is too much. You cannot give such a gift to
yourself; you are so against yourself, you are so condemnatory towards
yourself. You can immediately accept it if somebody says that you are a
sinner. Just think of it; if somebody says you are a sinner, you are ready
to bow down. Even if on the surface you deny it, deep down you know that he
is right because from the very beginning you have been taught -- you have
been poisoned -- that you are a sinner. The teaching has gone into your
very blood and bones and marrow; it has become part of you that 'you are a
sinner'. All the religions of the world have been teaching this; for
centuries, generations upon generations have been doing only one work:
condemning man.

Love, Sarlo

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The Way IT Is
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Seeds for the Soul
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www.blackdotpubs.com | Order now
"Pure Silence:
Lessons in Living and Dying"
Audio CD by Mark McCloskey
Highly recommended."
--Jan Kersschot, M.D.
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The Texture of Being
by Roy Whenary
"We do not need to search in order to find our true Being. We already are it, and the mind which searches for it is the very reason why we cannot find it."
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