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Nonduality Salon (/\)

Highlights #269

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The Universe, a construct of
conscience, seen in
consciousness the result of focus.

A dog has consciousness, but of self
perhaps not.
We have consciousness, but of self
perhaps not.

Both see the veil, not all recognize

They call it the veil. Why? Those that
have recognized it

We recognize it finally when we learn to look through a
different eye.
This "eye" is a point of focus that directly perceives the
construct of conscience.

I speak of a construct of conscience, of the Physical
Conscience, pure energy in the here and now. I choose
Physical Conscience instead of Human Conscience, considering
that it is possible that there may be other intelligent
physical life forms. I presume as well that there are
Non-Physical Consciences, and in keeping with Infinite
Granularity, these are "sub-elements" of THE Conscience.

In the "dual" sense, our eyes along with the other four
senses see mass, objects, due to their limitation as
physical sensors. Scientists know that mass, like the desk
for instance is made up of atoms. If one were the size of
an electron, the next nearest object, possibly a proton,
would seem to be as far away as a star. Like in space. The
desk is mostly empty space, a web of energy. The desk seems
solid because when the electrons and protons of our finger
comes close to the electrons and protons of the desk, there
are nuclear forces which repel. This is not fiction. It is
a "dual" fact.

Without getting lost in dual detail, the Physical Conscience
forms a construct of pure energy. The light of
consciousness is our gift, and with a touch more of the gift
of Grace than the dog, we more clearly perceive the
construct of conscience.

The veil is recognized and therefore available to be lifted
when we begin to perceive the construct directly,
illuminating it with our consciousness, looking past the
eyes, feeling the intent of the energy weaving the detail of
every twig, every pebble. Feeling it too weaving in your
walk, feeling the effect the light of your consciousness has
on the construct. Things give and take, move and respond.

The light of your consciousness may illuminate a thread of
energy that is perceived as a star, or another that is
perceived as fear or another that is perceived as doubt, the
ego focuses the light around knots of particular fibres
therefore loosing vision of the greater picture. A
beautiful view provides a feeling of peace, but it veils the
incredible construct at its root. A cruel murder provides a
feeling of rage, but it veils the powerful construct at its

May we all see that every detail is a reminder of the
incredible conscience of Being that is behind the veil.


Roger: Mira, NonDuality has nothing to do with hypnosis or
belief. Yoga ( that is Surya Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, Laya Yoga,
Gyana Yoga, Karma Yoga, Raja Yoga, Hatha Yoga, Tantra,
etc.. ) is NOT about belief, it's about the REAL experience
of discovering the knower beyond the surface levels of
thought & emotion.
Belief is on the level of memory, projection, mind, emotion
& ego. The various purificatory procedures of Yoga take one
beyond projective belief to the actual experience of
stillness. A still mind then discovers it's source.

Mira: Verbally, I could respond in two different ways to
your words:
1) Your statement that NonDuality has nothing to do with
hypnosis or belief, indicates a duality.
A duality where hypnosis and belief are something different
from"nonduality", thus having nothing to do with them.
You indicate an experience of discovering the knower beyond
the levels of thought & emotion, thus splitting them into

Roger: Sorry Mira for delay in responding... I'm not sure
I'm addressing the discussion:

If we are unrealized, then thoughts about non-duality or
Realization are just thoughts, not really much different
from other thoughts.

NonDuality or Realization is a PERCEPTUAL REALITY that can
never be created by any thought. So how to move beyond this
barrier of thought?

My primary 'way' is: to notice when identification is
present, and following the discrimination "NOT this!" be
aware in the stillness that follows, and encourage this
process with increasingly constant vigilent watchfulness.

But there are many other ways too.

Mira: 2) Your statement that NonDuality has nothing to do
with hypnosis or belief, reflects your nondual view and
understanding of the nondual nature of all things. The
emphasis on the discovery of the knower as the real
experience, indicates the nondual unity of that which is
knowing all things known, like memory, projection and

Roger: My "understanding" is _very_ limited. For me
personally, the highest activity I can engage in as a 'doer'
or one who claims volition, is to notice when there is an
"I" engaged in speculation, or some emotion, of a doer
projecting some favored "view"... and this very observation
that awareness is identified with something limited has the
effect of interrupting the identification. Even this
process of negation must be negated. Why even think at
all? Thoughts arise when they are useful, but other than
that, why think at all?

Mira: I know, trying, capturing in words, words remain in
the realm of dualism.
I indicate, point, explain, confirm, deny, and then there is
always that response post that indicates that I didn't
manage to phrase it completely.
Such is the nature of that which cannot be said, our own
simple nature.
Then, I smile, I laugh and look at ourselves again in
I am so glad that I have the entire world to be complete.
Thank you for your comment Roger.

Roger: Originally I believe I had the thought that you might
have been entertaining thoughts about non-duality rather
than resting in alert stillness. But that was just a

My way is to distinguish
thought/emotion/attachment/projection/identification from
stillness. All that need be done is to notice the
attachment and understand "Not this!".
Resting in stillness transforms. I'm not very fond of
thoughts about nonduality, unless somehow they facilitate
the transformation.

Like death, it comes when it comes, and like death, certain
things are more apt to cause it.

I agree with the first part of your statement, but the
latter half is more of a leap than I'd care to take.....

It may appear ....on the surface....that certain things
*cause* death, but I suspect that a deeper look would reveal
that there are greater forces at play than the 'apparent',
grosser ones.

For example, I'm told that both the great sages,
Nisargardatta and Ramana Maharishi died after bouts with
cancer. If this is true....then to say that cancer was the
*cause* of (or reason for) their shedding their physical
forms ....would be to miss seeing the 'bigger picture'.

Dying with cancer, being hit by a car, having a heart
attack, jumping out of a 12 story building, are all simply
the 'mechanisms' thru which the 'death transitions' can

Skye: I'm discovering that one can bounce into the grave
without having the body violated by these chemicals in our
carcenogenic environment by returning the body to it
original immunological strength via correct dietary
nutrition. The Hunzas and many races who's immune systems
have not been damaged by our 20th century lifestyle DO NOT
get cancer. Here's an excerpt from an interesting site


Cancer cells differ from healthy cells in that they are, in
effect, immortal. Whereas healthy cells live a short while
and then die, cancer cells continue dividing. The program
for cell death is never activated.

Most cancer experts believe each of us develops cancer
hundreds if not millions of times during a lifetime. Given
the trillions of developing cells, the millions of errors
that can occur in the differentiating (maturing) process of
each cell, and our constant exposure to carcinogenic
substances (smoke, car fumes, radiation, etc.), the laws of
probability dictate that mis-developing cells must occur
frequently in the life of every person. It therefore stands
to reason that a healthy body has a corrective system to
"reprogram" newly developed cancer cells into normal
differentiation pathways before cancer can take hold.
skye: And that corrective system is supplied by the food you
eat out of love for you body. So guys, the time to fight
cancer is before you get it by making sure you nourish the
body well with all the much needed vitamins, minerals and
the as yet massive number of undocumented nutrients within
real unprocessed food. The body doesn't need to suffer,
cancer is a immunological disorder.

Andrew: "When there is no attention (in coma or dreamless
sleep) there is no individual. Individual mind is the way
awareness appears to itself when it is active."

Xan: Yes. The way I would say this is: In the process of
creation indivisible awareness becomes individualized. Your
experiences - events and forms in your awareness - are not
identical to mine, either sensory or subtle. The *fall*
occurs when the individual is taken to be the whole of
oneself. In awakening, individual attention was previously
centered on forms and their movements, and a shift occurs to
awareness without center or boundary and realization of this
as original self. Yet even then your experiences are not
identical to mine because our attention is in different
places and from different reference points.

Not that it matters what-so-ever. ^,^

If something in me begins to notice that I am suffering in
one form or another, instead of beginning to suffer about my
suffering, it can become a springboard to wake up. Or if I
am resting in pure awareness and I notice my attention
beginning to wander, I again can use that friction or energy
to wake up.

What is Satsang? I assume it's sort of a "church like
gathering"? It's a particular day(Sunday?), or like
whenever? How does it work?


LOL! Yes, you are totally right :-))))))))

Satsang literaly means 'meeting with the truth'. It means a
gathering of people who want to ask questions about
nonduality. The one that answers the questions is called
the guru. If all goes well, everybody realizes his/her true
nature :-)))


"Sat" means "being" and "sang" means "with." So satang means
being with.
Usually what happens is a bunch of people get together and
"be" with someone who is "Being" there, or better "Being"
THE there. They get a chance to see what "Being" looks like
and ask questions on how to do it.
You would think there wouldn't be much to say about how to
be, but luckily there's a lot.


Sat means truth, sang means gathering. Satsang is people
gathered together for the sake of truth. Generally there is
a teacher and the style depends on him/her. It is not
primarily ritualistic or ceremonial as church is. At
various times there may a talk/discourse given, questions
and answers, sitting in silence, music. A genuine satsang
is full of life and discovery ... in my experience.


Is there any difference between being the observer and being
the witness? -- Mary

LARRY: Osho makes a distinction between witnessing as
practice (meditation) and awareness as fruition of that

"The important thing is that you are watchful, that you have
not forgotten to watch, that you are watching ... watching
... watching. And slowly slowly, as the watcher becomes
more and more solid, stable, unwavering, a transformation
happens. The things that you were watching disappear. For
the first time, the watcher itself becomes the watched, the
observer itself becomes the observed.
You have come home."
--from Meditation: The First And Last Freedom

KRISTI: I have a question about the watcher. I have become
aware that the watcher in me...is also the same "i" that
under conditions of stress wants to order my thoughts or
frantically searches for thoughts that will relieve stress
or "suffering". I have a watcher who watches this process
also. This aspect of my self...I experience as separate
from the part of my self that is "suffering." So, I have a
watcher who watches and wants to organize the thoughts of
the suffering parts...and then there is another level of
watching that observes this entire process. How many layers
of watchers are there? I'm tired of meeting all these
watchers and I just want to be done with this process!

LARRY: Hi Kristi, one way of sorting this out is to say that
there is no sufferer, no feeler, no thinker. There is
suffering, feeling, and thinking but they're just stuff that
happens. The main thought is "I"
and it usually comes with a certain feeling but it doesn't
actually refer to anything even though there is a terrific
centrality to it. In order for it to mean something it has
to be combined with another thought or feeling. This
results in identifying WITH as opposed to simply
identifying. If I stub my toe I can identify it as a
painful sensation, but if there is a certain feeling in my
stomach, I AM hungry.
However, what makes all this work is awareness,
consciousness, mind.
Witnessing is a way of getting the WITH out of identifying.
You could say it is being "I" rather than thinking "I". "I"
thought can't witness anything but awareness can and
awareness has an even greater centrality than "I" thought.
Actually, awareness is bigger than "central"; it is all, but
that's something for the jnani to worry about. Awareness as
witness IS central; so when you look at "I" you are being
looking rather than a thought that needs an adjective. I
think that's more or less the gist of it.

Self Enquiry (Vicharasangraham)
Of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

A new translation by Dr T. M. P. Mahadevan, M.A., Ph.D.
>From the original Tamil


The present work in prose consists of forty questions with
answers covering the entire range of spiritual disciplines
required for the gaining of release (moksha). The
questioner was Gambhiram Seshayya, one of the early devotees
of Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi. He was a Municipal
Overseer at Tiruvannamalai about 1900. Besides being an
ardent Ramabhakta (worshipper of Rama) he was interested in
the study and practice of Yoga. He used to read Swami
Vivekananda's lectures on the different yoga's as also an
English translation of the Rama-gita. For resolving the
difficulties which he came across while studying these books
and in his spiritual practices, he approached Bhagavan Sri
Ramana from time to time. Bhagavan, who was only twenty-one
years old, was then living in Virupaksha cave on Arunachala
Hill. As he was keeping silent at the time not because of
any vow taken but because he was not inclined to talk - he
wrote out his answers to Seshayya's questions on bits of
paper. These writings over the period 1900-1902 were later
copied in a note-book by Seshayya. The material thus
gathered was published by Sri Ramanasramam under the little
Vichara-sangraham which literally means 'A Compendium of
Self-Enquiry.' A digest of the teaching contained in this
work was later printed in English bearing the title
'Self-Enquiry'. In that English version, the questions were
omitted and the substance of Bhagavan's teaching was given,
classifying it in twelve short chapters with appropriate
headings. The present English translation is of the entire
original text Vichara-sangraham as it is in Tamil. The
Vichara-sangraham has unique value in the sense that it
constitutes the first set of instructions given by Bhagavan
in his own hand-writing.

A careful study of the instructions given by Bhagavan here
will reveal that they are based on his own plenary
experience as confirmed by the sacred texts which were
brought to his notice by the early devotees and which he
perused for the purpose of clearing the doubts that arose in
the minds of the devotees. In the course of his
instructions, Bhagavan makes use of such expressions as,
'the scriptures declare', 'thus say the sages,' etc.; he
also cites passages from texts like the Bhagavad-gita and
the Vivekachudamani and once he mentions by name the
Ribhu-gita. But it is quite clear that these citations are
offered only as confirmations of the truth discovered by
Bhagavan himself in his own experience.

The basic teaching is that of Advaita-Vedanta. The plenary
experience of the non-dual Self is the goal; enquiry into
the nature of the self is the means. When the mind
identifies the self with the not-self (the body, etc.),
there is bondage; when this wrong identification is removed
through the enquiry 'Who am I ?' there is release. Thus,
Self-enquiry is the direct path taught by Bhagavan Ramana.
The 'I'-experience is common to all. Of all thoughts, the
'I'-thought is the first to arise. What one has to do is to
enquire into the source of the 'I'-thought. This is the
reverse process of what ordinarily happens in the life of
the mind. The mind enquires into the constitution and
source of everything else which, on examination, will be
found to be its own projection; it does not reflect on
itself and trace itself to its source. Self-discovery can
be achieved by giving the mind an inward turn. This is not
to be confused with the introspection of which the
psychologists speak. Self-enquiry is not the mind's
inspection of its own contents; it is tracing the mind's
first mode, the 'I'-thought to its source which is the
Self. When there is proper and persistent enquiry, the
'I'-thought also ceases and there is the wordless
illumination of the form 'I'-'I' which is the pure
consciousness. This is release, freedom from bondage. The
method by which this is accomplished, as has been shown, is
enquiry which, in Vedanta, is termed jnana, knowledge.

True devotion (bhakti), meditation (dhyana), and
concentration (yoga) are identical therewith. As Bhagavan
makes it perfectly clear, not to forget the plenary
Self-experience is real devotion, mind-control, knowledge,
and all other austerities. In the language of devotion, the
final goal may be described as the resolution of the mind in
its source which is God, the Self, in that of technical
yoga, it may be described as the dissolution of the mind in
the Heart-lotus. These are only different ways of
expressing the same truth.

The path of Self-enquiry is found difficult by those who
have not acquired the necessary competence for it. The mind
should first be rendered pure and one-pointed. This is done
through meditation, etc. So, the various paths, in their
secondary sense, are auxiliaries to the direct path which is
Self-enquiry. In this context, Bhagavan refers to three
grades of aspirants: the highest, the medium, and the
lowest. For the highest type of aspirants, the path
prescribed is Vedanta enquiry; through this path, the mind
becomes quiescent in the Self and finally ceases to be,
leaving the pure Self-experience untarnished and
resplendent. The path for the medium is meditation on the
Self; meditation consists in directing a continuous flow of
the mind towards the same object; there are several modes of
meditation; the best mode is that which is of the form 'I am
the Self'; this mode eventually culminates in
Self-realization. For the lowest grade of aspirants, the
discipline that is useful is breath-control which in turn
results in mind control.

Bhagavan explains the difference between jnana-yoga (path of
knowledge) and dhyana-yoga (path of meditation) thus: jnana
is like subduing a self-willed bull by coaxing it with the
help of a sheaf of green grass, while dhyana is like
controlling it by using force. Just as there are eight
limbs for dhyana-yoga, there are eight for jnana-yoga. The
limbs of the latter are more proximate to the final stage
than those of the former. For instance, while the pranayama
of technical yoga consists in regulating and restraining
breath, the pranayama that is a limb of jnana relates to
rejecting the name-and-form world which is non-real and
realizing the Real which is Existence-Consciousness-Bliss.

Realization of the Self can be gained in this very life. In
fact, Self-realization is not something which is to be
gained afresh. We are already the Self; the Self alone is.
It is ignorance that makes us imagine that we have not
realized the Self. When this ignorance is removed through
Self-knowledge, we realize our eternal Self-nature. One who
has gained this realization is called a jivan-mukta
(liberated while living). To others, he may appear to
continue to tenant a body. For the benefit of those others
it is stated that the body will continue so long as the
residue of the prarabdha-karma (that karma of the past which
has begun to fructify in the shape of the present body)
lasts, and that when the momentum is spent the body will
fall and the jivan-mukta will become a videha-mukta. But
from the standpoint of the absolute truth, there is no
difference in mukti. What needs to be understood is that
mukti or release is the inalienable nature of the Self.

This, in substance, is Bhagavan Sri Ramana's teaching in the

University Of Madras.
T. M. P. MAHADEVAN November 15, 1965.


The essence of mind, the discriminating thoughts, and the
emerging appearances are all devoid of any separate,
independent substance. They are the diverse manifestations
of the innate power of awareness, the way rays emanate from
the sun or the waves rise from the ocean. Whatever thoughts
or appearances emerge in the self abiding nature of the mind
are devoid of intrinsic goodness or evil. Apart from
recognizing the identity of an outflowing thought when it
arises, or the identity of the settled mind when it is
settled, as well as recognizing the identity of an emerging
appearance once it arises and then maintaining it through
mindfulness born of innermost awareness, one need not alter,
divide, or modulate each experience. Je Gampopa comments:

Whether one is absorbed in a nondiscriminating state,
neither affirming nor rejecting anything, or cognizing
diverse thoughts, if one is able to maintain a tranquil
mind, unmodulated by dualistic discrimination, and if one
realizes the inner sense that this state is
nondiscriminating awareness, one has discovered the essence
of the mind, its inmost disposition, and mode of abiding
nature. When such an understanding is dawning, one need not
make efforts in meditation. It will come automatically to
him so that he can neither stop nor abandon it.
Similarly, as diverse thoughts arise without his being able
to obstruct them, so does nondual awareness arise in the
same manner.

Je Gomchung gives a similar comment:

This intrinsic nature of lucid awareness remains
inseparable, undistractable, and uninterruptible. Every
emerging memory and thought contains the same intrinsic
identity as awareness if ordinary awareness remains
undistracted; every memory and thought is identical with
awareness. Do not view this as deficient.


An American attorney had just finished a guest lecture at a
law school in Italy when an Italian lawyer approached him
and asked, "Is it true that a person can fall down on a
sidewalk in your county and then sue the landowners for lots
of money?"

Told that it was true, the lawyer turned to his partner and
started speaking rapidly in Italian. When they stopped, the
American attorney asked if they wanted to go to America to
practice law.

"No, no," one replied. "We want to go to America and fall
down on sidewalks."

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