Overheard in the Salon

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Standing as Awareness, by Greg Goode. "The clearest book I have ever read about nonduality." -Lex Samu "Takes you to a new place of awareness using explanations and tools you likely have never before experienced." -Jerry Katz

The follower is drawn to the leader by his own desire and the leader is corrupted by being surrounded by adoring followers; who is the victim here? The cycle is broken by awakening to reality, but that is only up to the individual. My feeling is that this corruption is inevitable in any leader-follower relationship eventually; that an awake person can not be a leader or a follower. --Andrew Macnab

Let the whole world go any way it so pleases. Let anyone take any path they choose. Let any teacher proclaim their way or truth as universal with gusto and enthusiasm. I remain immovable in the movement of the moment. I remain pathless. I go nowhere at all. --Harsha

Just as in the old days like-minded people gathered around a fire to discuss the love of wisdom, so we sit hunched over our computers gazing into the infinite light of our hearts, pecking out the "L" and the "T", the graceful "return" and the mighty "delete". Aah the mystery of it all.--Larry Biddinger

..perhaps Ramana and Nisargadatta were the biggest 'rip-offs' (of all Gurus), since they really obliterated their visitors' sense of self. Every kind of material rip-off doesn't even amount to a hill of lentils compared to that. --Petros

A guide can only lead me into the forest and point the way he knows. A guide cannot point me the way out. That is my process. Share with me your journey. I will find my own way out. --Michael

The name of the mind's game is always change. Be it a celebration, a debate, an accident, a catastrophe, a love affair or a fight, the essence of delight for the mind is always change whereas Self is without change. The very idea of something unchanging is ultimate horror for the mind. --Jan Barendrecht

I think I lost my voice. If anyone finds it, please return it immediately; I NEED it. There's no one speaking for me over here. I keep coming up with these great ideas, but ultimately they're not me. If they're not me, they seem kind of useless. Go figure. --Larry Biddinger

The greatest gift we can give someone is our time...our presence is the greatest present. -- Michael

..we're laughing and having a great time. No fussing, just awakening to love. --Skye

Fear may not be a readily accepted companion, but it may turn into your greatest ally. In the willingness to be "someone who will never awaken any further" and "lose awareness altogether", this fear turns out to have no power or ground in reality at all. --Mira

Until one learns the "secret" of one's sensitivity and the use of the sense of being consequent, it means suffering without end, being lonely, not being able to express oneself out of fear for being hurt, mocked at or not understood, doesn't it? --Jan Barendrecht

It is so hard for me to remember sometimes, that each diverse personality is my own diversity ...there ain't no boundaries...and each time i start to scream and holler like there is really an "other' out there, i am making that red guy jump up and down with joy...it is his job, ya know, to keep throwing ego dust on any clear vision....sputter, sputter...
...i am impermanent, i am everchanging, i am boundariless, i am every one, and no one, i just ain't. But, oh girl, you droolin' old fool, remember that acceptance comes with a high price tag, the letting go of all the shows, all the protests, all the hates and all the loves, all the leanings toward and all the shovings away, letting go of any itsy bitsy subtle naming of an "other"...and finding out again, and again and again , lord, lordy, there was never anything to let go of in the first place! --Old Hag

Reasoning ends when the fragility and evanescence of this life is
understood in all its implications. Death erases everything. What was
important yesterday has been swallowed by oblivion. The very urgency of death implies that I may never "get" what I was asking for. Indeed, I don't know if, five minutes from now, I'll be breathing any longer. --Anatta

...being nothing is much easier and more peaceful than being somebody... don't you find?
--Annie Heppingstone

Whatever there is to be seen, you can go beyond --
That which is seen is only a phantom, your own creation.
It is not the final veil.
Penetrate the veil,
Go beyond all vision,
And return to the place where you already are.
--Petros

Every soul who walks the streets or grieves alone at night, or is stricken by irresolveable confusion and internal conflict suffers from a loss of memory of what trust is. This is what it means to be beneath the glass floor. To live somehow within sight of the way things are supposed to be, to see the movement and the motion, of the metaphoric places we once walked, to be invisibly shielded and kept away from "normalcy" and to be able to see it all but not participate, not remember how...this is the character of the wound of the soul.--Kristi Shelloner

The "tags" of others are ephemeral -- it is the internal, constantly nurtured and reenergized "tags" comprising self- image that attempt to persist in denial of their transient nature. It is these that are our real -- and deadly serious -- challenge. --Bruce Morgen

I follow the path that materializes "step by step", as in a directed dream in the minds of those that are part of the One with me. --Dave (Manchine)

Losing self-image -- up to and including that hyper-evocative image of self-crucifixion -- is the very essence of beauty. For most of us this doesn't involve putting our suffering on public display and announcing our intention to declare "It is finished" at some indeterminate cathartic moment of cosmic closure, it's about noticing that the cross we bear is imaginary and going about our human business unencumbered. --Bruce Morgen

Since all manifestation is ultimately illusion, maya, the question isn't whether I have free will or not in reality. The question for the human being is whether to live AS IF there is free will, or AS IF there is destiny... or to hold on to neither. Free will and destiny are names. Reality has no name. --Andrew Macnab

One kind of seeing is an awakening into the world, the moment of innocence: it is every experience from satori to cosmic consciousness. A second is a seeing into the foundation of innocence or experience: I AM. A third is beyond seeing, as the eye cannot see itself: it is radical nonduality. --Jerry

An interesting and difficult question: Without all the words that we're supposed to say, using the memory of what it was really like, how did "I am that I am" feel like to you in its first moments? --Dave (Manchine)

Illusion... is that... which we seem to see.
Delusion... is that... which we seem to be.
'Tis all... misunderstood... Whole-ography*.
'Tis all just Divine*... that we see... and be.

* = whatever word the reader chooses.
--sam (/ \)

Self-Enquiry, of course, implies effort. But, this effort is of a different type. Because, this type of 'effort' will bring about 'I-am-awareness' by gathering up and inward all 'seeds of efforts' and destroying them all, and then finally by 'destroying itself' as well.

In olden days, in cremation grounds, the man burning dead bodies, used to take the help of a 'stick'. When the dead body is burning, due to some phosphorus reaction, the 'head' of the dead body will rise up, and to put the head back and down onto the pyre, he will use the stick. Then, he will throw the stick also onto the pyre.

The thought 'Who am I?' is like that stick. It will kill all other thoughts and finally kill itself, leaving behind the 'ever-present' Self.--Shankar

A few days ago, i dreamt about Jiddu Krishnamurti and i remember that i felt this incredible deep friendship for him, i took his hand, i put my hand over his shoulder and we just walked saying nothing but i felt that he understood it all. --Hans Deunhouwer

Without a "me", there is no "I" and vice versa; although in the course of events the "me" can become almost unreal, it still remains as a potential. Regarding this and other (veiling) potentials I used the analogy of enjoying a sunset, standing with a burden of 200 lbs on one's back; when the burden is removed, the enjoyment is more intense and less restricted although the sunset doesn't change one bit. --Jan Barendrecht

Seeing the essential suffering nature of the seeker self-image doesn't preclude further "study or dialogue," it simply ceases to be part of ones perceptual lens -- or, as Gene Poole might put, one's "criteria." In the absence of the omnidirectional, englobing lens of "criteria," there is freedom, purely joyful gratitude in who and what we really are. --Bruce Morgen

...ordinary mind is an unmodulated simplicity, which must be left to manifest freely and unaltered by any exertion of accepting or rejecting it as being positive or negative, empty or not empty, conceptual or nonconceptual, good or bad, superior or inferior. --Larry Biddinger

.maybe there is One lucky folk, which is the Human Being, which is "God incarnate"... The identifications which are burned away by God's Grace are the appearance of others in the One Human Being. --Dan Berkow, Ph.D.

...it is sort of amusing the idea of going to a satsang and having all these ideas/ concepts about what should or should not go on there. As if we know what is going to serve the space and those in it. I appreciated xan's comment on psychology and how it is always running the show, until it isn't anymore.And to add to that i would say that a common misconception is that psychology disappears or takes a back seat or worse, doesnt need to be worked with, after awakening. That is just pure naivite. --Mathew

If something in me begins to notice that I am suffering in one form or another, instead of beginning to suffer about my suffering, it can become a springboard to wake up. Or if I am resting in pure awareness and I notice my
attention beginning to wander, I again can use that friction or energy to wake up. --Marcia Paul

The sacrifice of the true Nondual Guerilla is that (s)he must precariously leave one foot in the dual. It is an honor, and a lesson that is absolutely neccesary for his/her final liberation. --Manchine

The tree outside my window is impossible and yet it's there, that's the essence of it. It is impossible to be awake, but we must be awake. Because that's our essence. Because our true nature is to be. It doesn't matter whether or not it's possible. If it's our deepest desire to wake up, then we must wake up. When we make the effort, the desire is appeased and we are awake. Don't forget that being awake isn't something foreign to us that we have to get from somewhere else, it's our true nature. Just being sincere and making the steady effort is itself being awake, even if it doesn't seem like it. ---Andrew Macnab

Vedanta terminology and realization have very little to do with one another I'm afraid. --jodyr

Few people are so blessed as to recognize their close and loved ones are a kind of guardian angels or even Buddhas_in_disguise "on the path". It doesn't only hold true for family, it goes for living conditions as well. When accepting that conditions "as are" have to be optimum for "unfolding", no energy is wasted on negativity, criticizing, comparing with those perceived less/more fortunate etc.; activities the "ego" is rather fond of.--Jan Barendrecht

I am having my career as a bioengineer crash and burn around me, and am burning in that fire now. Thus, while the fire has not yet yielded me up to the Universe, I am walking my walk and allowing myself to fully feel the situation I'm in. That is much easier of course than fully feeling the situation that a close loved one is in, be it cancer or mental illness, or the multitude of life situations we all walk through on our journey home. I leave the hard work to my loved ones watching me burn.Aaaaahhhhh... --(name withheld)

With no 'what is now', there is only the living nondual observer, observing 'nondually'. This living nondual observer may make use of any means to communicate this neutrality; any trickery, which leads to the falling away of the assumption of the reality of 'what was', may be employed, for the purpose of connecting our disparate nodes. --Gene Poole

This unrelenting looking at any phenomenon to see what it actually is ...It is a courageous and beautiful act.--Xan

The energy required to keep information hidden from ourselves, is subtracted form the pool of energy available for us. This effect is noticed as fatigue and diminished immunity; the other more obvious effect is that of being 'on-edge', irritable, and defensive. --Gene Poole

inside i feel like an old chinese ch'an monk who failed to realise true self nature and knocked himself off at the end of his life with opium, dreaming me up in the process ;-) more than a thousand years ago. --Skye Chambers

These days i seem more inclined to focus on this space than on the things happening in that space. This notion comes more often to the foreground and gives a relief in the sense that it makes me aware that i do not have to interfere or judge or act or whatever but that i can just sit back and watch. --Han Deunhouwer

A community starts with two people whose only interest is the welfare of the community, and the resplendence of its buddha nature.--Terry Murphy

I would really like to see a tv show featuring spiritual teachers. We can do a re-make of 'Truth or Consequences'. Remember that? You run a game show that gets someone like Gangaji trying to paddle a ball in the air while bobbing for grapes in whipped cream. You get Rob Rabbin balancing a tray of raw eggs on his head while dancing the macarena. You have a Master Nome in a white velcro suit taking a running leap onto a velcro wall. Andrew Cohen repeatedly entering a room like Kramer. --Jerry Katz

...the "sour apple" comes before the nectar. The "nectar of immortality" will flow spontaneously whereas the "sour apple"has to be processed in (inner) solitude. --Jan Barendrecht

"Realisation is coming to an intuitive understanding of the fundamental fact of our human existence, which is that everything, forms, feelings, perceptions, thoughts are no more or less than consciousness itself and that consciousness itself is empty. Living according to that understanding is enlightenment. It's living simply in the fullness of the moment without being driven and without resisting, which transforms everyday life into pure wonder and mystery."--Andrew Macnab

The air is egoless. Why not simply breathe in the egoless air, that is giving itself for free, and be content? Why not rest in egoless space, provided unselfishly, and rest there? Why not be Original Awareness, the Unknown itself? Then, being fully Unknown, knowing All as All - we won't be deceived, we won't seek, we won't look "outside" for an "egoless realizer".--Dan Berkow, Ph.D.

Until all hope for possibly waking up is lost, then hopelessness, which is suffering, cannot be lost. As soon as hope is lost, hopelessness and suffering will also be nonexistent. And then what's present is ecstacy or nondualistic rapture. Then the world will be seen the way it really is. Hope is always stained with hopelessness. Always. It has to be. Because hope is a position. Every position gets to be confronted with it's opposite.Every position has got it's perfect compliment. Until hope is lost entirely,you've got hopelessness. --Matthew Files

What joy to run across another awakening mind
While pumping gas or shopping for this and that
Or reading between the lines on the internet.

No names
No certificates
No funny clothing
Or dietary rules.

No insistance that some imagined level of enlightenment has been reached.

Just mutual silent recognition .........

What Joy !!!!!!!!!
--Xan

1. With the present availability of spiritual knowledge, who is waiting for another Buddha who will essentially say the same as the "old" one?
2. When performing "miracles" like walking on water, levitation, healing the sick given up by the MD's, it is far more likely to get a job as the successor of magician James Randi then to be seen as another Jesus :)
3. With the present status of moral and ethics, an incarnation of Krishna would only be flooded with responses of cupidity, not bhakti. --Jan Barendrecht

"...no enlightened person can ever be wrong, but only few enlightened persons have been of help. The majority of enlightened people have been of no help at all, for the simple reason they have never considered the other".--Osho (contributed by Melody Anderson)

Samskaras are the karmic result of ignorance. They are as empty and impermanent as sensation perception form and consciousness, and all of these together make up the individual person. Elimination of ignorance is seeing all these as empty and impermanent. But the person still appears to exist, so do samskaras and the rest. --Andrew Macnab

Is talking about *issues* a gratifying activity which perpetuates and justifies identity, or is it seen as a temporary involvement serving the purpose of freedom?--Xan

I'm far from perfect, and I don't care. I care about my connection. Only I can take care of that. It is in the hands of I AM.--Dave

Resting in an empty witness state, who exactly is there to care about nonduality?
--Larry

I've never been able to work out what type i am. Just when i think i've found slot for me, i discover i'm capable of the complete opposite too!--Skye Chambers

I'm a bitch, a goddess, a mom, and a pretty darn good cook.....AND
.... I'm none of this, as well. --Melody Anderson

Look deeper.. I see Titanic written on the bow... just go down with the ship.. no
survivors.. no schmoozing ... hey don't include me in your romantic notion .. mind coloring.. love song thingie ..Ever listen to any Frank Zappa?? I know he 's dead and all.. but he has.. oops.. had a great way with tone and word..although I don't
think he wrote the words "I sold my heart to the junkman .. yeah" which touched me deeply..--Sharon

I went to an "intensive" presentation for 3 hours by Eckhart on Saturday March 11, in New York City-not much i can add to christiana and chuck's comments-- he's like a gentle little elf--clear and open-- his presentation was indeed seamless and powerfully moving--better than his book even--i surreptitiously took notes (no one else was doing so) and i am so glad i did because reading them over takes me into his presence again--he stayed late and answered questions and then was available for individual questions --Nora

Most people block out the pain or feel sorry for the "other". Try uniting with the "other's" pain. It can turn the situation from an energy drain to an energy surge as you become one with them. --Neo

Allow that you might be wrong and that your preconception of what comprises a "life of love" are just that -- mental images based on appearance.--Bruce Morgen

Einen Augenblick is like saying: “just a moment “. What does this moment hold? Nothing ?, this moment right now stretched into eternity holds eternity. I am utterly and totally consumed by this moment,I am filled by it to such an extent that I don’t exist . But who is talking ?,where do these thoughts come from ? A paradox within Non-duality? Sharing a moment touched by thought, has it become duality?--Klaus Wieben

The common, daily experience of _challenge to identity_ is easily seen by example here in NDS. We can see open disputes, challenges, claims and counterclaims, all for the purpose of MAINTAINING IDENTITY. 'Attackers' and 'defenders' are both working as powerfully as they are able, to make _self and other_ rigidly conform to the basic criteria of the _original agreements_.--Gene Poole

Lord save me from people who want to save this list. Lord save me from Realization. There are others setting rules for communication: HAHAHAH HA AND HOHOHOHO. I Stand Free. HAHAHAH HA AND HOHOHOHO. Therefore All Stand Free. We are parading down the bare onelist halls. We are bare parading on the morning star highway the year before Jesus is born. We are preparing the Garden. We are smoothing and placing the bare stone for the karate of God. We are the Nonduality Salon and you are here.--Jerry

I mostly don't know what I am talking about myself. If everyone really knew what they were talking about, there would be no discussion and no mailing list. We put stuff out experimentally, like a scientist testing a hypothesis. Being knowingly ignorant we are capable of learning and discovery.--Phil Burton

I would like to apologize to you. My fingers are typing things without me knowing about it. So please forgive me if you are offended by it. If it gets any worse, i will have to cut my fingers off. --Hans

In the practice of silence, only truth is spoken. Speak truth; speak that which is pleasant. Do not speak unpleasant truth; do not speak pleasant untruth. This is the ancient law of silence, that all spoken words come true when they arise from the depths of silence. --Swami Veda quoted on list

I have found that when one speaks from the truth this clumsy form of written communication called email and even speaking directly with words pales with the experience that one is in touch with within one's self. --Jeff Schriebman

I spent seven hours doing Movements which are a form of exercise/dance/prayer created and collected and passed on by Mr. Gurdjieff.

There is an intelligence in the body; the body has it's own form of informing. For years I read a lot and meditated but until I began to work with attention in my body and work with my body through the art of gesture and working in groups with this, there was an entire area of my existence I was not in contact with and working with this has opened up my work tremendously.
--Marcia Paul

When are you going to give up the lie? As you said something about going kicking and screaming to your grave. You have a protective layer of steel around you. Give it up and quit trying to fake it so hard. You are probably the least awake person here. --Neo

So, more lessons in attachment, but I'm sick of lessons, of trying, of thinking, of introspecting, of feeling totally self-centered all the time in the name of devotion to others....strikes me as a contradiction in aims....so, for a while, I'm just going to try being a person, and I don't care if it is full of "ego" and personality.... just be! --Kristi

I am enlightened...

is a statement of awareness resting on awareness...
consciousness of consciousness...
a proclamation of the universality of peace and freedom.

It is a proclamation of nondual consciousness as body-mind-universe.

Say it loud and clear, without doubt, wholeheartedly, it is truth.
--Andrew Macnab

Gene: Sitting quietly in meditative communion I assume no difficulty in conveying or understanding; I am that which interpenetrates.

Ed: Sitting quietly, the language barrier is resolved.

Anything can function as a door to "now" - a tree speaks eloquently, waves talk to me all the time. The truth comes to me invisibly, I read it without needing my eyes, I hear it without using my ears. --Dan Berkow

What I saw from my first meeting with (Gangaji) was that she is awake and continuing to deepen in awareness, that she is uncompromising in her genuineness, and that people are awakening to Self in her presence. I am not interested in anything but these qualities in teachers. --Xan

There will always be an infinite gap between "what is" And that which is spoken about "what is".--Dan Berkow

Self-judgement is very sticky stuff, as I know so well. Ramana said self-judgment is the most difficult of the obstacles in the mind, to self-realization. But then I learned, difficult just means it takes a little longer. I also learned it was not necessary to clear up all self- judgement in order to know the Self. For me there is great benefit in a little detachment - recognizing the criticism and shitty feelings as just thoughts. --Xan

In my view (and in the view of Plotinus and Ramanuja, as I understand them) the beauty of the whole thing is that the individual soul is real and unbounded in itself but is also included in the Absolute. The two are not separate but not identical. Realizing one’s own soul (ultimate nature) is easily mistaken for the Absolute because it is reminiscent of the Absolute. But in this view there is always also an infinite road ahead of increasing proximity to the Absolute. We arrive again and again and again – with each new realization being an expansion, a refinement, a clarification, a deepening – all within the Absolute.--AJA

The great sage Mahavira said to his disciple Gautama that one does not know when it will be time to go. "So always be watchful O' Gautama!". In Jainism, some say that the highest yoga is known as Upay Yoga or Yoga of Awareness. The highest rung of understanding in the great spiritual traditions emphasizes being aware of the innate wakefulness of Pure Being. Be Watchful. Watch your Watchfulness. --Dr. Harsh K. Luthar

Nondualism is a perspective holding reality to be of the nature of oneness, sameness or homogeneity. Stated another way, reality is understood or grasped as an unbroken continuum or whole, rather than being separated into various mental categories.--Tim Gerchmez

It all stems from this...without relying on the senses, or on memory, or on dreams or reasoning, there is only one thing known; I am. Appearances change, forms change, names change, being remains. Differences between us are real in appearance, and subject to change. Consciousness manifests as an infinity of unique individuals, that's what's so beautiful about the whole thing.--Andrew Macnab

Silly people
Doing silly things.
These too are one.

From the Heart of Awakening - Mu

Over 2500 years ago, the Buddha moderated a non-dual list and here is an instruction he gave to all the subscribers.

"Monk subscribers, there are these five aspects of speech by which others may address you: timely or untimely, true or false, affectionate or harsh, beneficial or unbeneficial, with a mind of good-will or with inner hate. Others may address you in a timely way or an untimely way. They may address you with what is true or what is false. They may address you in an affectionate way or a harsh way. They may address you in a beneficial way or an unbeneficial way. They may address you with a mind of good-will or with inner hate.

In any event, you should train yourselves: 'Our minds will be unaffected and we will say no evil words. We will remain sympathetic to that person's welfare, with a mind of good will, and with no inner hate. We will keep pervading her with an awareness imbued with good will and, beginning with her, we will keep pervading the all-encompassing world with an awareness imbued with good will -- abundant, expansive, immeasurable, free from hostility, free from ill will.' That's how you should train yourselves. --O.H.

Your *intentions* are to help others by bringing their attention to this nature of separateness, SINCE you have realized it? AND this (THIS!) is your 'peaceful' work in the world? This makes you a master? NOT. This means you know it. This is no more than a ploy of "let me show you how enlightened I am, and you are not". It's your basic bully. And maybe the *masters* saw this bullying/teaching as a way, and I realize this is a way and can AND does work. But if you really think about this (now really think about this!), the masters bullied/talked harsh to their followers -- those that *chose* for the master to show them the way. --tg

What is Enlightenment?-- neo

I'm trying to point to it, but I can't. I can't even lift my hand. I can't even move. You're a pigeon sitting on a statue in the park.--Jerry

For the past 3 days something strange has been happening to me. It started with the message from Mary re ACIM. During the message and my responding to it I dropped my belief system. All words depend on beliefs and words became meaningless. Thought depends on words and thought is becoming meaningless. my mind is getting very quiet. I feel very strange. I have been here before but it is somehow different now. The water running over my hands as i washed them felt so alive. --Neo

What you described is not strange at all, Neo - it is the process of de-identification. Meaning and purpose do only exist in the one seeing them, for the sake of argument that one could be called a "local identity" but yogis would attribute it to "consciousness in the chakras". So when a local identity comes into sight, fully gets known and is in a sense left behind, meaning and purpose temporarily are suspended, states of void and or bliss can arise, then disappear again and how the experience is interpreted will depend on what could be called one's safety net. When going through the process consciously, it can be recognized the next times, until nothing remains to de-identify and mind remains empty. --Jan Barendrecht

...the Course (In Miracles) says - Nothing I see means anything. - The world is meaningless in the sense that it is neutral. It has no meaning of itself. We give everything its meaning, we tell a story about what we see out there including that what is out there is real. Right now I'm going through a transition period where I am inquiring whether anything I think is true and I'm finding out that I can't really Know something is true, so my struggle to understand everything is lessening. And that's my story.--Mary Salegui

Whenever I am on the verge of a new breakthrough in conscousness the mind resists and puts up a fuss until deepening happens. Blessedly I don't react to mind's reactions much anymore. --Xan

One of my highest held truths has always been "I AM", and it's always been the source of my quest. ... it was an experience that I had guarded unto myself for many many years, not knowing that there were so many others who had experienced it. It was a key truth, but left nothing but questions. Answering those questions did not change "I AM", but gave it greater depth, removing the "I". Obviously different, but strangely the same.--Manchine

The idea that I'm being interfered with is the only thing interfering. There is no ego to get rid of, but the idea that something needs to be gotten rid of can be gotten rid of. 'This' simply is itself, no way to accept or reject it.--Dan Berkow, Ph.D.

For me, it's washing dishes. My family thinks I'm nuts because I don't use a dishwasher [can't stand the noise of one], and always readily volunteer after dinner to wash them. It's such a marvelous practice in mindfulness for me. How easy it
is to drop everything else and simply 'wash dishes'. By the time the dishes are done, I'm smiling. --Melody

"As long as one lets their heart soar in freedom in all activities of life, then death will be your friend and never catch you unprepared." --Richard Oddo in Sharing of the Heart

We need not worry how we will know the Truth or how the ego can know the Truth, etc. How can anyone really know the Truth as a separate entity? Is the Truth an object to be known? We can Be the Truth because We Are the Truth. That is our Original Nature. Truth Knows ItSelf. --Harsha

So it would appear that the ultimate sacrifice is that of our perceptions and interpretation and our suffering and whatever else that constitutes our identity. This sacrifice of one's identity is not something external but is the attitude of surrender to the Lord who sits in one's own Heart. If spiritual practices have a purpose then it must be to allow the mind to mature and finally surrender to the Source of its own Reality. Ramana Maharshi has pointed out that God, Guru, Grace, Self all mean the same thing. I would recommend "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" for everyone. Also "Be As You Are" by David Godman is an important compilation of conversations with the Sage of Arunachala --Dr. Harsh K. Luthar.

Just in the last 3 weeks, 4 of my friends sort of "woke up" to the fact that the teachers they had been following were just not going to give them what they were seeking. And they are good teachers too. These people turned within, became happier, more confident and self-reliant; and less slavish after a father-figure. Which is ironically just what teachers would have wanted on their behalf in the first place! Like, Ramana never wanted a Ramana bhakti organization. On my friends' part, this is a welcome sobering or maturing.--Greg Goode

How about if I reach down and put you back on your feet.
How does that thought feel!
Lovingly,
Em

The accidental tourist, discovering hirself in mid-journey, notices the nile of thought, and does not barge on, instead electing to walk the headwaters, fed by manna. --Gene Poole

..we can only point in the general direction of that which is forever beyond mere word & concept. This weekend I went hiking around an icy mountain lake which had several streams running into it. Moving water is so fascinating! It has characteristics of form & formlessness, boundary & unboundedness and it escapes any futile human attempts at description. --Roger Isaacs

.I am aware again today of the closed system the thinking mind creates and how miraculous it seems when grace breaks us free of it. But the real mystery is how we humans could have forgotten and hidden from ourselves the simple truth of our original nature and source. --Xan

I love to look at the ocean, it is a reflection of the Ocean that can never be seen.--Dan Berkow

Jan, it's been a long time ago that i understand a word of what you meant, This post is clear to me. What happened to you :) (or maybe i should ask, what happened to me ?) --Hans

Unless one loves to sleep one won't sleep, and unless one loves to know "who am I" one won't bother. Perhaps it is dawning now that (the source of) being is love. So why the multitude of detours, unless one loves them? :) Love doesn't require an explanation nor neti-neti... (when in doubt, ask your mother) --Jan Barendrecht

We can see it in the conversations here as well sometimes. Blatant sneering, sophisticated sneering, subtle sneering, and the ultimate sneering through claims of non sneering, etc. Since sneering at others appears to be common to most spiritual traditions, and seems to be a natural tendency of humans, perhaps enlightenment can be simply defined as a permanent state of continuous sneering at others. Instead of Sahaja Samadhi, we then have the wonderful equivalent of the Sahaja Sneer. The beauty of this approach is that it is truly nondual and not something that we need to attain. We are already there! (:--). --Harsha

Without the burden of the emotional memory, trauma-like events have become impossible as "the root of suffering" has been extracted and this enables one to "experience" everything "as is". --Jan Barendrecht

Would you mind terribly if I threw "nonduality" to the wind for a moment, and just said that I love you? --Tim Gerchmez

I feel that this "I don't know" is meaningful only after a good amount of inquiry, otherwise it's just laziness or dumbness. I'd say there are two sorts of inquiry: outward inquiry and self-inquiry. The former results in recognizing that we are wearing a mask (the personality) and eventually discarding it, by asking "am I really this, that...?" Self-inquiry is trickier, as there seems to be no answer to the question "whan then am I?" But at least the very asking may lead to feeling the presence of the unknowable, and come to a rest there. The result is silence, which is another word for "I don't know".
--Miguel-Angel Carrasco

I'm the disease and I'm the cure. This town ain't big enough for both of me. --Andrew Macnab

Why consider yourself a sentimental fool? That is just a synonym for passionate mystic :) Some would consider nothing better than "dumping" the mind-body and being shot right away into nirvikalpa samadhi to "stay" there, whereas others "prefer" the factual realization that verily everything is God. What is +Knowing+ one but a wave of the ocean, and seeing the ocean in the eyes of every creature but touching?--Jan Barendrecht

TIM: If you could really get across one major point to everyone on the list, what would it be?

ED: The realization that we are both "love" and our own worst enemy...and everything in between. It doesn't matter whether we are labeled "entity" or "person" or anything else; we are still what we are. To say the "person" does not exist changes nothing.

Do you also see that some of the players are aware that they are players, and that others are not? That while some players point to the play as being 'an illusion', that the aware players, play deliberately? Or alternatively, that some of the aware players simply stop playing, as a choice? That while "the play" is not the only play in town, it is where we stash our chips? And that when the aware player goes for broke, and loses, that it is a perfect time to win? Writing as not just a nobody, but as THE NOBODY--Gene Poole

Your radiant presence was clearly received and the resonance was pure bliss. How utterly simple it is. Pray that all may share in this joy. --Ed Arrons

What is the necessity of words? It begins as a search for answers, and then words appear to be answers. There's a hot romance with words. Then a marriage. Then a familiarity, an attachment, a comfort, a friendship, a facility, an
acceptance from others with that facility, therefore a social connection, a bond, a gathering of friends, a lingo, a definition, a grouping and a separation from other groups, and suddenly there is nonduality but there isn't nonduality because there's only the lingo, the stance, the posturing, the remembered experience of nonduality, the attachment to something that is called nondual, but who wants to see it? Who among us divorced neti-neti and married into internet family nonduality? It's a very tricky business, nonduality. To talk more about it is to make it trickier. I'll leave it for now.--Anon.

Can any of you tell me: What IS death? What dies?

Nisargatta: "Integration of the body ends and disintegration sets in."

Makes sense here. There is nothing more to death than that. Everything else said about it is really just a concept about it. Some think they fear death, but they fear only their conceptualization of it, their idea of what it is, their imaginary projection of the future. --Tim Gerchmez

Lately i do not seem to be able to grasp anything at all, especially in this field. Whatever pops up, it's all nonsense. The moment it pops up, it's gone. Whatever was taken for granted, is put to question. No answers needed though. Life is easy that way. Life is very Light and full of funny contradictions. Enjoy ! :))))))) --Hans Deunhouwer

I do have memories of some deaths, some births and some life stories. I recall anticipating death from various points of view. I remember the relief and freedom following physical death. Just memories. I have noticed, just as sunrise and sunset occur each day, that all forms are born and die - the coming and going that transpires within that which is eternally the same.--Xan

Just remember, folks... "Nothing really happens". --Gene Poole

Does it ever!! --Andrew Macnab

Whether one is the puppet of the grace of instant and permanent samadhi, or the puppet of the grace of gradual deepening of awakening awareness .... Who deserves credit for catalyzing discovery of eternal happiness, and who is blamed for nightmares of suffering? Who is doing this? I am the holy hand within the glove-with-eyes of body, mind and soul that is this so-called me. --Xan

The day my dad died I was cranky with him. I wanted him to hurry up so I could go out with my friends and talk about all my realizations for the week. The day after he died I felt bad. At one point I asked him to forgive me. In that moment I realized I needed to forgive him. We were together in forgiveness. He was really there with me and all was forgiveness. None of the other stuff mattered at all. It was all just nothing. I was in my heart. Way different than being in my head talking about being in my heart. --Marcia

The danger of a list like this is, that it can put you up with even more crap instead of less :)) on me it has the effect of a comedy movie, i makes me laughing more and more and people around me (including myself :) effectively start enjoying this.s. They appear and then they disappear, uncaused, unwritten, unread.--Hans Deunhouwer

In a movie, is a gold bar worth more than a lump of excrement? Both are images, pictures. Live life this way, and nothing will ever disturb again. There will be absolutely no more problems when you stop preferring, choosing. --Tim Gerchmez

HANS: There's one little problem with the Empty Recycle Bin. It's not really gone. You can still find it on your hard disk, if you want. Wonder if this works the same with our Recycle Bin ? :)

DAN: It's not going anywhere, just round and round. Same stuff, packaging may change. In fact, the "stuff" is the "recycling" itself. Just recycle, and realize there's no separable being who needs to get rid of anything.

One's acts have power, to find the opening to freedom. Any one of these acts may be your last. --Manchine

I was looking at some old family photos today and it occured to me that smiling may be a modern phenomenon. Does anyone know anything about the history of smiling? I assume it is closely associated with photography. When did people first start to be encouraged to smile? I wonder if we can thank, or blame :), a photographer for the invention of happiness. --Larry Biddenger

The trick is to not judge the mind judging. The mind is going to judge. It is possible to witness the mind judging without judging it judging. Impartiality. Inherent in your question is a hidden belief that feeling insulted, argumentative, and so forth is who you really are. All that is is believing what the mind is telling you. You will feel insulted and argumentative. That is how your machine is programed to feel itself. Pure awareness feels like nothing. It feels empty. As long as you are feeling a strong personal emotion, no matter what it is, you have to just trust that you are asleep and act on it. Allow yourself to feel it to the max but don't display it outwardly. The tension between the yes of feeling it and the no of displaying it will begin to really wake you up.

My father just died. I was beating myself up about how I didn't do this and I did that until I realized that I was still making it all about "me." Before he died it was all about "me" and how much I had to do and after he died it was all about "me" and what I didn't do. What a racket. :-) --Marcia

Eating a muffin is as profound as anything said by countless sages over myriads of aeons.

I suggest that no suggestion is useful. I express that no expression is possible. I conclude no ending, and propose no beginning. As for death, to do it justice one must say: nothing separates it from life, it never occurs to someone other, it never happens anywhere else, it only happens "now", not "then". --Dan Berkow

Ignorance is my greater glory, error a long
time friend. Ignorance is Brahman, Atman is knowledge. Knowledge is a wave, but ignorance is ocean. What could be easier! Free and easy--Larry Biddinger

Yeah! ... All questions answered. All answers questioned. There's some big waves of knowledge in your ocean Larry. Surf's up.--Andrew Macnab

Yeah well personally I'll take the combo platter, a heaping helping of crispy fried determinism so I'm not to blame along with a big pile of fresh steaming free will so I can be forgiven. Then I'll have a big slice of nihilist black cherry tart for dessert with a double existentialist espresso and a meaningless cognac.--Andrew Macnab

In other words we are human. Non-duality is true of all existence, of all manifest and unmanifest worlds. And then here we are, flesh and blood. Feeling, emoting, thinking, moving, sensing. All this talk of illusion, and impersonal reality is a mystery to me.(the way it is talked about, not the reality itself). Everything is very real, very tangible to me. I would never for an instant think that all the misery and suffering that i see just walking down the street is an illusion. Or that the beauty of nature is just a projection of mind. Ego is a very tangible "force" that needs to be worked with.Physical pain is quite real to me, as is eating, taking a crap, waking up in the morning and going to sleep at night. Non-dual reality / enlightenment, is all there is, that is undeniable. Yet here we are, incarnated as human beings having to make peace with the also undeniable fact of duality. We all have "life situations" and need to deal with them and the dealing with them just so happens to be in the realm of duality. A life of suffering and ignorance is rooted in the assumption of separation. Piercing this assumption could be called awakening to already present enlightenment. However this awakening does not change, one iota, the fact that we exist in a dualistic world and must attend to it. What it does change is the way in which we relate, on all levels, to this world. Whether we have awakened to already present enlightenment or not, what we do does matter. --Matthew Files

We are born into this world with the god given right of free will. We value the right of making our own choices. And as long as we can't see the outcome of those choices we will continue to have free will. But if we increase our mental awareness, we will be able to see the outcome of the choices we make. So understand that our willingness to give up our freewill must come first, before we can really be free. --Trainer

The night-flying butterfly always approaches but can never reach the moon in time, is never separate from the moon in eternity. --Andrew Macnab

Something must surf on the limit of time and eternity, in integration. It's VITRIOL this perfume only one may know. --Antoine Carré

Where there is Awe, Laughter, or Bliss, there is no chattering mind.
Kir Li Molari

Laughter can be like unto a holy earthquake, shaking "mind" and its edifice of conditioning down past their foundations -- and when it's not quite *that* big a deal, at least it's aerobic as all get out. Bruce Morgen

Your use of the term "dreary thought that everything is predetermined" catches my attention. It was just that thought that I found utterly conceptually liberating when I first came upon advaita a couple of years ago. I'd been regularly involved in meditation since the early 1970's, taught it, lived the cult of self-improvemet, growing to higher states of consciousness, doing all of the prescribed
sadhanas to rid myself of stress, etc. etc. Unity was something "out there" that could be achieved by "me" as an individual, the enlightenment prize. But, what kind of unity, or god, or source, or absolute, or nature is it really if it isn't truly all-comprehensive and encompassing, the "all there is, is consciousness". I prefer my concept of unity to be total, and my notions of self, me, growth, evolution, pleasure and pain to be predetermined waves on a single ocean of Being. It's just a concept.--Mark Paul Petrick

Nondual Computing?: Hello list, still enjoying a vacation away. Perhaps I will return. Perhaps not. Perhaps nobody ever participated... perhaps nobody failed to participate. --Tim Gerchmez

Michael asks: Dan, How does one get to direct awareness?

Dan: Without moving from here.

How does one stop the nagging questions?

Dan: By realizing there is no place for them to occur. They seem to attempt to exist, but never can. They seem to refer to something, but never do.

Hacking Grace: When I am "here" I am buddha, even if "here" doesn't seem all that great. So says me. --Larry Biddinger

It has been my experience that the self that wants the experience is the self that can never have it. That self, trying to have the experience, is like "trying to pick up the board you are standing on." The other thing is the ego-self doesn't go away. It is possible to be enlightened and still have a dysfunctional ego-self. --Marcia Paul

That condition of 'nonduality' cannot be an object of contemplation or discussion. As soon as something is discussed, contemplated, or argued for, it becomes that which is 'dual,' a concept or an idea. There may be many aspects of 'Truth' or living which are capable of being discussed in various forums, but in and of itself that condition cannot be immediately a topic. There is nothing particularly mysterious about this fact, which has been oft noted, but rarely accepted. --Petros

Space is nonbeing.
Nonbeing appears where there is no space.
Formless and inexhaustable.
Being appears in nonbeing.
Emptiness is filled.
Creativity appears in stillness.
--Andrew Macnab

When I drive, my body drives and my mind talks to itself, or else I drive like I want to be somewhere in front of myself; and there have been occasions when I drive like I want to escape from myself. I imagine zen driving is driving as the no one poised in the dot of now, which is really nothing, but potentially everything.--Larry Biddinger

It is becoming very obvious that we are not as awake in normal life as we think. --Dave

An excellent point, and quite true. In fact, this reality wasn't here an instant ago. Even more odd, nothing preceded it. That's pretty inconsistent. Give me a nanosecond so I can convince myself that all this was here a minute ago, with only slight changes having occurred. --Dan

I am here in front of this screen. And if I raise my eyes, I can see that the only place that we are is here. Although clouded by the poor and limited sense of our past. Enlightenment is a personal quest. It is for those of you there. You find us here, and look up and you know now it is for THAT. May your enlightenment be for THAT. --Manchine

I reached a real impasse when I was about 21. Couldn't go forward or backward. Nothing worked to get me what I wanted to get, which I suppose was actually to be grounded in Reality. I had glimpses of This, but was frustrated that they passed. And nothing seemed useful, including spiritual pursuits, sex/romance, academic-career stuff. The future was drained of color, nothing appealed, support was lacking, the truth turned out in major ways to be lies, my frantic antics reached a roadblock, and death was an inescapable and very present reality. "Me" was clearly grounded in nothing but anxiety, and my being was defined by a future that had no reality. Then, everything fell away. Reality crumbled. Gradually, it reintegrated, just putting one foot in front of the other. And that's how it is now, one foot in front of the other, nothing to understand, and the pointless emptiness is now a boundless vista. --Dan Berkow

The list has felt pretty comfy recently its true. What is talking about It and what is not, I see no distinction. Null One you speak of crapping on it, neglecting it, making its attainment more difficult for others. I see the interplay consciousness through all the personalities here as a continuous self-presenting teaching. There is a commonality amongst most everyone here which is that we all see consciousness as universal and boundaries within this ubiquity as shifting evanescent and permeable. Some approach this intellectually, some more intuitively, every one would express it differently. Some express it as experience some as understanding. Some play in abstruse systems of sounds and symbols. Some explore it through dreams and visions. Some find it flowing through their daily life. In scripture and study. In nature. In imagining spirit simultaneously within and around you until the whole universe spiritualizes. In sex. In eating. In the point of going to sleep where bodily wakefulness has gone but slepp has not yet come. In seeing a beautiful person for the first time. In seeing a beautiful person AS IF for the first time. In gratitude even for pain. In all languages and in the words of the languages and the letters of the words and the sounds of the letters. In the wondrousness which appears in steadily regarding things. The black lightning in the spaces between. --Andrew Macnab

I've been reading Stanley Sobottka's "A Course In Consciousness", Very refreshing, I skipped the physics and went straight to the third part. This sheds, for me, a new light on the utility of the understanding of nondoership which surprisingly isn't depressing. It also describes experiences of glimpsing egolessness which I've been wondering what to do with; as Neem and oh said, do nothing. As Ramesh would say, there is no doer, everything happens spontaneously. --Larry Biddinger

I've spoken to many people about "I AM" and being and dying, and the conversations stop or block, very quickly. It's like with lizards or something that have inner eyelids. Plop. Staring you in the face denying, hiding not daring to see. Some have had the guts to say, "talking about that stuff makes me nervous". I know, they've touched the treasure, but it's hot! Right now, it means facing death. I've personally seen the blockage in myself, pursuing "I AM", before I really knew it. I got to a time when I couldn't see it if I wanted to.
--Dave Pawlek

Papaji never left and could be as much or more with you now as when he had a physical form. But don't take my word for it, make a heartful request for him to be more present with you and see what happens. --Xan

Someone asked how to make it real: I think nonduality in the form of "mind only" or "all there is is consciousness" is difficult to access for most people and takes either luck or pluck. However one's Self is obviously right here. Nothing could be more accessible. It's just a matter of owning it. If Self can be accepted, the journey is over, because Self isn't a journeyer. At least that seems to me to be the logic of it. --Larry Biddenger

There is only one list. There is only one member. There is only one message. There is only unsubscription. --Jerry

With the honesty of a child
With the openess of a child
With the willingness of a child
Ask

Grace will answer
--Mu

Someone at Rishi Valley asked Krishnamurti (when he was nearing his end): "Sir, what is the message." K thought for a second, looked at the questioner and in the clearest of clear voices replied: "Sir, you are the message." --Bruce Morgen

By all means make the inquiry. Honestly and with no expectations - ask! That which asks is indeed the answer! It was always there It is there now It will be forever there. You are THAT! --Michael Read

It seems to me that as far as paying for one's arising, Gurdjieff talked about caring for one's parents. He would admonish people to take their parents into their homes and care for them until their death. It would seem to me that affording one's parents the most comfortable death and not to be alone at that time and to die with respect would adequately pay the debt for one's birth. --Marcia Paul

To me, nondualism means we no longer stand at dawn to shoot each other down with archaic emotional pistols. --Mark Otter

If you want to know The Answer, stop asking the question. Kir Li Molari --Bob Rose

If you want to know the Answer, never be afraid to ask any question! Pursue your truth, until you see that You are the Truth. A spontaneous silence is the fragrance of the Self. --Harsha

Regarding knowledge, the veil can be lifted to quite an extent but a complete lifting of the veil does require completed transfiguration which is extremely rare. There is a good reason for it as Nature favors the combination of happiness and continuation of worldly life over the "denaturation" of healthy sentient creatures into literary Non-sentient "creatures", "living" in a body, justifying the analogy of the readability and fragility of carefully burnt newspapers...

From an other perspective, most of the knowledge, "accessible" when transfiguration is completed, is incomprehensible from a "worldly" perspective: who would believe that the laws of nature are the result of identification and these laws aren't "absolute"; verifiable only when the respective identifications lose validity, which requires temporary loss of them (meaning a long, strenuous practice of yoga) or completed transfiguration? --Jan Barendrecht

First hand we know this: Energy is streaming constantly. There is constant "going in and coming out," or "going out and coming in", whether you name this "black holes and white holes ("wholes" ;-)) or whatever. All of this form "sitting on" infinite flux. We construct a seemingly stable reality that isn't. We formulate a body that lives and dies, a sense of time involving memory and projection, and language that uses definitions provided by thought and society. Meanwhile, the quantum foam is bubbling all around and through.

To say this is "undefinable" falsely implies that the construct "definability" has a meaning ;-)

We are the Cheshire Cat.
--Dan Berkow

" Rabbis have communicated unknown manuscripts to me; alchemists have admitted me to their laboratories; Sufis, Buddhist and Taoist have lead me, during long late-night sessions, to the abodes of their gods; a brahmin let me copy his tables of mantrams; a yogi gave the secrets of
contemplation. But, one evening, after a certain meeting, all that these admirable men had taught me became for me like the soft haze which rises at dusk after an over-warm day." (from Le maitre Philippe de Lyon by Dr. Philippe Encausse).

To Be or not to Be, is it not the bag that The Fool leaves behind? --Antoine Carré

what i am saying is don't ever for an instant think you have reached "the end". It is deadly to sadhana to make those kinds of assumptions. As well as being a lie, because there is no end.It is very common to assume that having realized "oneness" "I AM" or what have you, that that is the end, the goal has been reached. No no a thousand times no. --Matthew Files

You don't have to be Tiger Woods to play golf, to understand what it means to win and lose, or to speak articulately about the game. You don't have to have a great long-lived love or many loves to speak of love. A momentary glimpse, a passing in the night, can be the inspiration for heart-shaking poetry. The same with realization of nonduality. The people who speak of that realization I've called realizers/confessors. --Jerry Katz

Those who have awakened, have come to the realization, at least in part, that what they see in front of their eyes is a miracle, within which any burning bush would be commonplace. --Manchine

In the way of the Truth, which is the understanding of what you are, there is no need for experience, for anything learned from outside oneself. All that you require is within, and you will discover that this has always been the case. There is only a gradual unfoldment of this understanding, and often this may appear to be a form of experience -- until it is seen for what it is. --Petros

As to what "enlightenment" is or isn't, one can state with certainty that it is not of the past or the future, but rather the famous "Eternal Now Moment." If it is not *now* it literally isn't real, the past being dead data and the future a fiction based upon that dead data. The most precious bits of dead are the aforementioned hints at and pointers to *right now*. --Bruce Morgen

We who live and die in the city of consciousness bring ourselves, our psychological bent, our cooking utensils, paintings, guitars, journals, jokes and collection of self-made gemstones, our pets, ancestors, sizzling DNA, and we find a room on Nonduality Street.

We unravel to the emptiness while sitting peacefully on a bench in the park alongside the lake, and while negotiating the crowded sidewalk perfumed with ethnic garlic.

Even as so many of us walk stone-faced past each other, there's enough said in the passing to be taken for bows of mutuality. Because at night, late at night, all is quiet in rooms, and mostly quiet on Nonduality Street. And come morning, morning is simply known as morning. It is cool in the city of consciousness. A fan does not turn. --Jerry Katz

For me anyways, lucid dreaming has been an excellent tool in the expansion of the consciousness. It develops the disciplines required to examine consciousness limits, and it opens one to the similarities between dreaming and waking states, which is a key to the process of awakening.... slingshoting one from the "limits of reality" in dreaming to the "limits in reality" in waking. There is a tremendous similarity after all between those two, and it is that which points to THE reality, by contrast. --Manchine

Do not settle for anything! Do not settle for anything - until there is nothing left to settle for. --Harsha

I have no comment on the future of the NDS email community. I don't know what's happening ten minutes from now. There's no mission statement. It is empty. I trust it. --Jerry

Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing. -- Andrew Macnab

My heart defines compassion as: nothing to do with sorrow or suffering or sympathy. It is a movement of Being, which knows, with no belief, that beyond the appearance of flaws and brokenness and masks, we are the same. It is an employment of the energetic Eye of sameness, blazing through the narrow eye which thinks it sees an appearance of difference. It is not a choice.. it just is. --Christiana Duranczyk

What impresses me most these days is people with awareness. I was driving to work this morning (my long 5 minute commute!) and on the factory-lined street I drive down the way was blocked by a long long semi-tractor trailer rig. The driver was backing it into an impossibly narrow slot between two buildings and I marvelled at the skill he showed and the calm centered awareness it took to peform that feat of navigation while holding up traffic from both sides.

By the same token I am looking forward to the Olympics because world-class athletes also perform feats of awareness. Contrast this with the political conventions currently going on here in the U.S. where it is an exercise in "message" which means dumbing-down awareness, putting people to sleep so they won't notice the real stakes involved. --David Hodges (from his journal)

I am sick today,
but I won't
even for an instant
let my weakness
steal the beauty
of this moment
with you.
My every breath
becomes a prayer,
Each heartbeat,
a mantra of longing
for your gentle touch.
One eye must
shed tears of gratitude
while the other,
tears of sorrow
for those who've
yet to love.

Until I started to look at myself,I used to think I knew what Einstein meant when he said "The more you find out, the less you know!".

What you don't know is nothing (empty space), but it's more than you'll ever know. Funny how that works!

I just love throwing away models, because the next one that get's built is even more spectacular, in an almost simpler way!

Now then, some say, "throw away 'model making'" and I think that therein lies a very precarious situation! Is the building under construction, the one for which the blueprint was made, is it finished?

Will the building need maintenance, which may require the blueprint?

There have been so many times that I've been ready to throw out my blueprint, when I feel that what I see before me is just so perfect, when 'boom', the staircase just doesn't line up with the hallway!

I've actually gotten to like the imperfections! It's such a wonderful mystery.
--Manchine

dearest harsha,

certainly i read your ever-wise and ever-kind words with great joy! i took a three week trip this summer and all i took to read was ashtavakra gita, ribbhu gita, and your own In Pure Knowing, Writings on the Self which i printed out from the nonduality salon.

funny, the body went here and there,
but i didn't go anywhere.

with deep gratitude, cee

went to the Oregon Coast this weekend with some friends. While there I found a delightful little book titled _Don't Whiz on a 'Lectric Fence_

Here are some quotes:

"Every path has some puddles."

"Don't stand behind a coughing cow."

"Man is the only critter who feels the need to label things as flowers or weeds."

"Forgive your enemies. It messes with their heads."

"Words that soak into your head are whispered, not yelled."
--Michael Read

if enlightenment arrived exactly two months ago it certainly could un-arrive.

you are in great company here we love to proclaim our enlightenment!

here are a few words from Huang Po who died (?) in the year 849

..."Nor should you wish to be a Buddha right now. If a Buddha arises cut him off instantly. Don't cling to him for even a single moment, because a thousand locks couldn't shut him in, nor a hundred thousand feet of rope bind him."

love, cee

Michael: Tired, worn down, all alone, ready to die, then I was ready, The barrier removed, the door was opened, but not by me. If I can be said to have done anything of value, It was this - taking that last faithful and willing step through.

Marcia: This seems familiar. Standing slightly separated but not detached from the whirlwind of 'me', I silently wish with all my being to have more faith in the things unseen than that which my senses show me, and something from inside cradles me in its loving embrace, allowing 'me' to just let go and be flooded with love.

Xan: I passionately long for being "permanently established" - pocketless - purely being, through and through. Hence *the work* of vigilance, of seeing and seeing through, of Grace, and of this morning's gratitude.

I have found uncomplex, happy harmless fun to be way more gutsy, enduring and real than that old "life is suffering" concept those enlightened ones keep whining about. --Charlie Bragg

This list is a good place to find plenty of unasked for advice, nonresponsive remarks, self-promoting posing, and gibberish masquerading as wisdom. If you can let that slide off your back like a nondual duck, you may enjoy the swim ;-) --Dan Berkow

Hang out on this list enough and you'll see various kinds of approaches. This is a very democratic place. Many people stop by. Some folks come through like a whirlwind and actually urge everyone on the list to take up some particular practice or meditation. The cooperation/obedience they encounter is less than 100%!!! Then they leave. Some other people will urge everybody to drop all practices. Some people say that no-practice is practice. Some say that practice is no-practice. This NDS is like a big city with lots of restaurants and movie theaters and record stores and temples and churches. Some people eat hamburgers, some eat curry, some eat nuts and berries, some eat Devil Dogs or Krispy Kremes, some have even attempted breatharianism. Some listen to rock music, some to folk, some to classical, some to chants, some to jazz, some to pop, some to elevator music. And we're all still here. It's partly what makes NDS a great place. --Greg Goode

It is strange and fascinating to observe how the concept of flowing time may come to change. I come from time to time to see numbers on a bellboy, a cellular phone, a TV, on a
car radio, a wake up radio, a computer screen, a TV screen. The strange and fascinating thing about it is that more and more those numbers that mark time are just numbers. It could be any time at all, it does not change a thing... Maybe one day the cell of our body will come to observe the time flowing, or should I say, not flowing, in the same way and the concept of aging would be then one that we put on like changing a watch for its color. --Antoine Carré

It is strange and fascinating to observe how the concept of flowing time may come to change. I come from time to time to see numbers on a bellboy, a cellular phone, a TV, on a car radio, a wake up radio, a computer screen, a TV screen. The strange and fascinating thing about it is that more and more those numbers that mark time are just numbers. It could be any time at all, it does not change a thing... Maybe one day the cell of our body will come to observe the time flowing, or should I say, not flowing, in the same way and the concept of aging would be then one that we put on like changing a watch for its color. --Antoine Carré